I have been trying to discern a nice formula for the points costs of the various ships.

So far, I have come up with a few observations. I made the assumption that each point of Pilot Skill was worth one point in total cost. I then did a simple calculation to remove the PS "cost" from the total points cost. The resulting pattern suggests that the "PS costs 1 point per level" hypothesis is correct.

First we'll look at comparing ships of the same type.

X-Wings

Points - PS = 19 for Rookie and Red Squadron

Points - PS = 20 for others

Implies --> 0 points for Elite Talent Upgrade slot (Biggs & Garven = Luke & Wedge)

Implies --> 1 point for Pilot Ability (Biggs, Garven, Luke, Wedge)

Adding an Elite Talent Upgrade to an X-Wing card is probably not worth anything, points-wise.

It appears that Pilot Special Abilities are worth a single point each (at least in the case of Biggs, Garven, Luke, and Wedge).

TIE/ln

Points - PS = 11 for Academy

Points - PS = 10 for others

Implies --> 0 points for Elite Talent Upgrade slot (Rest = Black, Mauler, Howlrunner)

Implies --> 0 points for Pilot Ability (Winged Gundark, Backstabber, Dark Curse, Mauler, Howlrunner)

The Academy Pilot is an interesting case. He seems to be 1 point too expensive when compared to his squadron mates. I don't know why he doesn't cost 11 points overall (instead of 12). Maybe an effect from playtesting?

Y-Wing

Points - PS = 16 for Gold & Grey

Points - PS = 17 for Dutch & Horton

Implies --> 1 point for Dutch’s & Horton’s Pilot Ability

A-Wing

Points - PS = 16 for Prototype & Green

Points - PS = 17 for Arvel

Points - PS = 18 for Tycho

Implies --> 1 point for Arvel’s Pilot Ability

Implies --> 2 points for Elite Talent, Tycho’s Pilot Ability

TIE Advanced

Points - PS = 19 for Tempest & Storm Squadron

Points - PS = 20 for Maarek & Vader

Implies --> 1 point for Elite Talent, Maarek’s & Vader’s Pilot Ability

B-Wing

Points - PS = 20 for Gold & Grey

Points - PS = 22 for Ibtisam

Points - PS = 23 for Ten Numb

Implies --> 2 points for Elite Talent, Ibtisam’s Pilot Ability

Implies --> 3 points for Elite Talent, Ten Numb’s Pilot Ability

TIE Bomber

Points - PS = 14 for Scimitar & Gamma

Points - PS = 16 for Captain Jonus

Points - PS = 19 for Major Rhymer

Implies --> 2 points for Elite Talent, Jonus’s Pilot Ability

Implies --> 5 points for Elite Talent, Rhymer’s Pilot Ability

YT-1300

Points - PS = 26 for Outer Rim

Points - PS = 37 for others

Implies --> 11 points for +1 PW, +2 Hull, +1 Shield, Missile, Elite Talent, Pilot Ability

intersting. i bet FFG has something similar they r using to maintain play balance. You formula would work perfectly for running a campaign where u have points to invest in extra pilot abilities and upgrades as you play and earn experience

Comparing ships across types is much more involved. You have to account, points-wise, for all possible upgrade slots and special icons (and the maneuver dial!).

One idea I have been playing with is to assume that each point of PW, AG, HU, and SH is also worth 1 point in cost.

Subtracting PS, PW, AG, HU, and SH from the points totals leads to the following comparisons.

Rookie Pilot (X-Wing) = Tempest Squadron Pilot (TIE Advanced)

So we might be led to believe:

Torpedo Upgrade + Astromech Slot + X-Wing Maneuver Dial = Evade + Barrel Roll + Missile Updrage + TIE Advanced Maneuver Dial

Green Squadron Pilot (A-Wing) = Kyle Katarn (HWK-290)

Missile Upgrade + Boost + Evade + A-Wing Maneuver Dial = Turret Weapon Slot + Crew Slot + HWK Maneuver Dial

If we could do enough of these comparisons, it might be like solving a system of equations and we could perhaps arrive at points values for every piece involved in the game.

Of course, much of these actual points values may have been guessed at in the first place then tweaked due to playtesting.

Of course, the designers may have something more complex in mind.

Some of the ship attributes may be worth more than others.

It already seems like some Pilot Abilities are more valuable than others.

I would think some of the upgrade slots are worth 0 points; if you wind up selecting something to fill that spot you will pay for it then (in the cost of the upgrade card).

I believe the math has been done on this forum before, down to how much individual attack dice cost.

The Academy Pilot is 12 instead of 11 because it means you can't run 9 tie fighters in a 100 point fleet.

The Maneuver Dial is a very tricky thing to quantify as well.

As a first cut one might look simply at top speed or something, but the turning ability and whatnot is worth something too.

I believe the math has been done on this forum before, down to how much individual attack dice cost.

The Academy Pilot is 12 instead of 11 because it means you can't run 9 tie fighters in a 100 point fleet.

Do you have any idea where I could find that topic? I'll do a search for it, but if you have any info that would be interesting.

I've seen it here, but by now it's gotta be 6-8 pages back, if not more.

Last I saw was just before Wave 3 hit

PS = 1

Att/AG= +6 for every point over 2

Hull = +3.5 for every point over 3

Sheild= +4 for every point.

Unique= +1***

Off the top of my head but it's close. Not perfect but I think that is as close as we've got. It might be +8 for every point over 2 on Att/Ag. Unique skills aren't always 1 anymore. Dials are weighted. Large ships get ~8pt deduction. No calculations for upgrades that we can tell.

Major Rhymer's ability itself is appx +4: the most expensive one in the game.

I'm pretty sure there is no set formula, FFG probably do what I do, look at the model in comparison to the closest analogs currently in the game, make a guesstimate of how much better or worse it is than them and then playtest. Though once they have the base ship, I do agree they add 1 point per PS and then fudge the value slightly due to any special named pilot skills.

Pointing models is one of those things it's really hard to make hard rules for, but decent designers can just look at and think that looks like 23 points instantly and be very close to correct, stick three designers in a room and it will be even more likely to be correct as they can all guess and then bounce any varience back and forth.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/72935-reverse-engineered-squad-point-formula/

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/72935-reverse-engineered-squad-point-formula/

Being able to use regression to get a formula does not mean that the formula existed in the first place. Just that you can create a formula that matches the current data points. Also just because a formula matches the current data points doesn't mean it can predict future models.

I think you must use multiplication rather than addition to find the value of the stats.

EG, a shield upgrade is more usefull on a ship with high dexterity because it will last longer.

...so the value of a ship would be more like PS*dex*Attack*Hull*Shield*special abilities.

(That is why howlrunner costs 6 pts more than Academy, and wegde costs 8 pts more than rookies)

To complicate things more you must take the Lanchester square principle into account.

It defines that being 2 against 1 is not twice but 4 times as good.

(meaning that a red squadron pilot must roughly be 4 times as good as a Academy Tie fighter)

First off, good analysis.

Rookie Pilot (X-Wing) = Tempest Squadron Pilot (TIE Advanced)

So we might be led to believe:

Torpedo Upgrade + Astromech Slot + X-Wing Maneuver Dial = Evade + Barrel Roll + Missile Updrage + TIE Advanced Maneuver Dial

this would also imply that 1 att = 1 def; or 3 attack = 3 defence.

But we know that this is the truth: attack > defence, so 3 attack > 3 defence.

Also just because a formula matches the current data points doesn't mean it can predict future models.

But IIRC it did predict the cost of the wave 3 stuff, or at least the points from wave 3 still matched up with the formula.

Also just because a formula matches the current data points doesn't mean it can predict future models.

But IIRC it did predict the cost of the wave 3 stuff, or at least the points from wave 3 still matched up with the formula.

Not all of them, by any means. Rhymer has a +4 point ability. The Bomber is off by a point or two if I remember correctly. And well the Shuttle, a ship with it's stats should be far more than it costs from the formula.

For the most part, I'm certain there is a base formula. (Thankfully it is a bit more complex than Attack Wings...) However, the formula is not how the final cost is determined. See the Lambda and HWK, as well as the Academy Pilot. The HWK is the reason I'm doubting we see a Z-95 that is 16 or less points. I don't think the designers want the Rebels to swarm.

Not all of them, by any means.

Ok I didn't pay that much attention to it to be honest.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/72935-reverse-engineered-squad-point-formula/

Thank you! That is exactly the sort of mathematical mess I was hoping to avoid (or at least ease myself into).

Perfect.

First off, good analysis.

Rookie Pilot (X-Wing) = Tempest Squadron Pilot (TIE Advanced)

So we might be led to believe:

Torpedo Upgrade + Astromech Slot + X-Wing Maneuver Dial = Evade + Barrel Roll + Missile Updrage + TIE Advanced Maneuver Dial

this would also imply that 1 att = 1 def; or 3 attack = 3 defence.

But we know that this is the truth: attack > defence, so 3 attack > 3 defence.

As stated in my simplistic assumptions, I did indeed say 1 att = 1 def.

I like the " Reverse Engineered Squad Point Formula " approach by ShadowJack (pointed out by onebit, above) much more than my simplistic first cut at analysis.

YT-1300

Points - PS = 26 for Outer Rim

Points - PS = 37 for others

Implies --> 11 points for +1 PW, +2 Hull, +1 Shield, Missile, Elite Talent, Pilot Ability

On the second look, I find this one interesting. Hard to guess how the 11 points are divided ... but it looks like a bargain for what you get.

PS is one of the more relative values in the game

Example

If I face academy tie fighters (PS1), it will not matter if I use Blue Squadron (PS2) or dagger squadron (PS4)

I will still move last and shoot first.

So the pilot skill in it self is not worth anything other than its relation to other pilots .

If you want to get the most out of this you should aim to either go for having 1 pt over the enemies or as low PS as possible.