What title card upgrades do you want to see in future expansions?

What would be a fair cost? 2-3pts per ship?

Which ships/pilots most need a title card?

I would love to see a title card that lets all name pilots take an elite pilot talent. Horton, Dutch, Dreis, Biggs, Night Beast, Winged Gundark, Backstabber and Dark Curse would all be candidates for an elite pilot slot.

There are a few examples of elite pilot talents being available to non-name pilots (Black Squadron Pilot, Sabre Squadron Pilot and the rarely used Green Squadron Pilot). Why not give this option to other non-name pilots as well?

This might even be extended to allowing an EXTRA elite pilot talent giving a single pilot TWO but the cost would need to reflect this.

The cost for taking TWO elite talents on the same pilot could be balanced by making the second elite talent upgrade cost twice its normal amount (or twice the cost of the highest upgrade).

How many times have you wished you could put expert handling and push the limit on Wedge? Lets say he can!

Example 1 (Twice the cost for the second upgrade)

Push The Limit (cost = 3)

Expert Handling (cost = 2x2=4)

total cost =7pts

Example 2 (Twice the cost of the highest upgrade)

Expert Handling (cost = 2)

Push The Limit (cost 3x2 =6)

total cost =8pts

thoughts?

I like the idea of adding elite skills, to both named and none named. For none named limit it to level 4 or 5 or greater. As far as cost I think FFg has probably decided that already, with the new Interceptor aces card which allows 2 upgrades, but does not seem to up the basic rate. Maybe instead of charging extra for the pilot skill, put a set charge for using the second slot. No charge for the 1st skill, but 2 points for the second.

As far as a new skill, maybe something linked to if the pilot has Jedi experience. Something he could use to effect lower skill pilots he is facing.

I would like a "Rouge Squadron" Title. It would not need to be unique (probably shouldn't be)

I don't know what it should do, there are lots of cool things it should do.

My suggestions is any ship with a "Rouge Squadron" Title can spend any focus token on any ship with a "Rouge Squadron" Title that is withing 2.

I just like the idea of the squadron being able to help each other.

I'm a bit wary of awarding dead pilots 'elite' status, since they clearly weren't talented enough to merit longer lives.

I personally don't feel that there ahould... or will be any additions to the elite pilot skills.. i feel they added them to the pilots they felt deserved then, and the units they felt were elite enough to deserve them as well.. to add so many more EPS I feel will unbalance the game, even more so to give any pilot 2 of such skills..

I personally don't feel that there ahould... or will be any additions to the elite pilot skills.. i feel they added them to the pilots they felt deserved then, and the units they felt were elite enough to deserve them as well.. to add so many more EPS I feel will unbalance the game, even more so to give any pilot 2 of such skills..

Onway >>> Well to your first point "added to only pilots that deserve them"... Horton Salm is PS8 and he gets none, rebel pilots with PS6 miss out (Dutch Vander, Garven Dreis and Avel Crynyd all miss out but Kyle Katarn who is also PS6 gets an elite pilot talent!)

I am also uncertain why some non-name pilots "deserve" elite pilot talents (eg. Black Squadron Pilot).

I can see why only named pilots could have access to them but then why do some miss the cut and others make it? As for unbalancing the game you are assuming that this benefit will be undercosted or are you saying that at no matter what cost it will still unbalance the game?

Hrathen >>> I really like your suggestion of a Red Squadron title card [cost?]. Should be limited to X-Wing Pilots of PS4 or more.

What if a Rogue Squadron X-Wing pilot could copy the pilot talent of any X-Wing within range1? Swarm Tactics, Push the Limit, Expert Handling... all just got so much better in the hands of a rebel player with X-Wings in close formation. Some on these forums have been voicing concerns about the dominance of the Tie-Swarm... wouldn't a title card like this re-Balance the game???

My reasoning on my first statement was due to a thought.. perhaps these pilots have a great ability and to allow them a EPS would break them or be just a little OP

As to why I feel certain non named pilots having it.. think of it this way.. The Empire is supposed to have some pretty elite personnel and some really crack troops. It seems to me only natural that they have some talent at doing their jobs. Hence the EPS. Elite units are what happens when good pilots are thrown together to create new squadrons or when the lesser pilots get killed in missions and the good ones continually prove themselves..

I may look at this differently than others.. I'm ex - military and so is my father... i am a student of history and enjoy the things I've learned from world wars and other conflicts.. not that I know everything or anything like that but I do look into some aspects and try to use what I learn..

It's all just my view man.. no harm.

My reasoning on my first statement was due to a thought.. perhaps these pilots have a great ability and to allow them a EPS would break them or be just a little OP

As to why I feel certain non named pilots having it.. think of it this way.. The Empire is supposed to have some pretty elite personnel and some really crack troops. It seems to me only natural that they have some talent at doing their jobs. Hence the EPS. Elite units are what happens when good pilots are thrown together to create new squadrons or when the lesser pilots get killed in missions and the good ones continually prove themselves..

I may look at this differently than others.. I'm ex - military and so is my father... i am a student of history and enjoy the things I've learned from world wars and other conflicts.. not that I know everything or anything like that but I do look into some aspects and try to use what I learn..

It's all just my view man.. no harm.

oneway>>> thanks for your input and insights into this aspect of the game no harm done. I do see ur point about balance especially with pilots like wedge and howlrunner who are already very good and appear in many squads. Remember though Both these pilots are already big targets and loading them up with even more upgrades might actually cost you if they get taken out early in the battle.

From my experience having a single fighter worth 30+ makes them a juicy target for the enemy. I think this is why many players go sparingly with upgrades and prefer numbers in the air as opposed to a small number fully tricked out ships.

I honestly think the X-Wings do need a boost - it looks like its on its way with the new Rebel Transport expansion which is providing 4 new x-wing pilots as well as rumors of a few new astromechs.

Honestly I think the swarm tactic was so successful because it gives you a lot of firepower and a lot of damage soaking ships (I.e. more ships to take The damage) especially in a game where you only get one shot per spaceship that you fly so if you have three verses 8 TIE fighters then of course you're going to have to take some punches before you take down the swarm or more than likely the swarm is going to take you out because they have you in numbers its just math really..

High or low Pilot Skill isn't the only measure of how "good" a pilot is, in-universe, and shouldn't be the measure of whether a ship deserves an Elite Pilot Talent. I'm going to use the current Y-Wing characters as examples:

Horton Salm is a veteran pilot (high-PS) with years of experience in ground- and capital ship-attack (his long-ranged re-rolls), but he doesn't have the flair or creativity of dogfighting aces, and admits as much in the X-Wing books. Jon "Dutch" Vander's a capable shiphandler (mid-PS) and we see him coordinating target locks with his wingman, (thus his ability) but he can't keep his cool once Darth Vader gets on his tail.

We could really use a couple more generic pilots with access to Elite Talents, though.

Technically some pilots already have the ability to have 2 skills. Some have a built in skill plus an icon. Some pilots are just good because they have the talent, some pilots grow in skill as the gain experience, that is what creates the pilot levels. Some of those pilots gain special skills in that experience, some just get better at what they do.

WonderWAAAGH Would you give Von Richtofen elite status even though he was killed?

I think the unique pilots are a fun thing and some do really merit mention in the game. That said, I also think it kind of 'dates' the game you play as well.. after certain time frames some pilots could be banned from the game.. like the guys that died on the first Deathstar run.. but say you wanna do a game before that.. get em all on the table have fun with it. might just be a nifty way to play the game, and add new flavor to tournaments as well.. ohh.. so and so is dead at this time frame of the tourney. cool.. I'll break out my post BY squad..

Just an idea to add 'Historic' flavor to the theme.

Technically some pilots already have the ability to have 2 skills. Some have a built in skill plus an icon. Some pilots are just good because they have the talent, some pilots grow in skill as the gain experience, that is what creates the pilot levels. Some of those pilots gain special skills in that experience, some just get better at what they do.

WonderWAAAGH Would you give Von Richtofen elite status even though he was killed?

Flavor-wise, sure. I was making more of a generalization, since not all pilots that survive combat are necessarily deserving of elite status. Mechanics-wise, almost certainly, but that's not a decision one should make in a vacuum. Sometimes flavor has to take a back seat where gameplay is concerned in order to achieve a balanced experience, and balance is the core issue at stake here. With respect to your example, an appropriate answer would depend on which other named pilots did or didn't already have Elite Pilot Talents during the First World War. If we're talking about Star Wars, my advice would be to not try and fix what isn't broken. More options isn't always a good thing, a life lesson I hope everyone here has already learned.

With respect to my own previous comment, anybody who went out ignominiously in a giant fireball at either Death Star battle is simply not deserving of an EPT, and no additional gameplay mechanics will change that in a way that lends balance or flavor.

Elite pilots are the cream, I am sure that some pilots that are considered elite in the game are really no better than a regular level 4 squadron pilot, but that is how FFG has decided to label them. That is one reason in the new aces release that they have a level 6 with the pilot icon, where you can to a certain extent customize your own. Elite pilots seem to find a way either through skill, experience or some unknown quality to survive. Interesting to note that Erich Hartmann, the leading German ace, as good as he was, was actually shot down I think 5 or 6 times.

With respect to my own previous comment, anybody who went out ignominiously in a giant fireball at either Death Star battle is simply not deserving of an EPT, and no additional gameplay mechanics will change that in a way that lends balance or flavor.

That's a bit of an unfair assessment, since these pilots were killed going up against a Death Star and/or Vader himself. Further, in a few cases these guys were virtually sacrificing themselves to give others more time.

Similarly, the ROTJ pilots were facing overwhelming numbers of TIEs and Interceptors, as well as massive fire from a fleet of Star Destroyers. That any survive to then make a run on the Death Star is a miracle.

There was nothing ignominious about either battle...

Anyhow, the notion of titles interests me. And the Royal Guard TIE sets a precedence that the title cards do not have to be a specific name. It opens the way for Red/Rogue Squadron X-wing, Gold/Gray Squadron Y-wing etc.

With respect to my own previous comment, anybody who went out ignominiously in a giant fireball at either Death Star battle is simply not deserving of an EPT, and no additional gameplay mechanics will change that in a way that lends balance or flavor.

That's a bit of an unfair assessment, since these pilots were killed going up against a Death Star and/or Vader himself. Further, in a few cases these guys were virtually sacrificing themselves to give others more time.

Similarly, the ROTJ pilots were facing overwhelming numbers of TIEs and Interceptors, as well as massive fire from a fleet of Star Destroyers. That any survive to then make a run on the Death Star is a miracle.

There was nothing ignominious about either battle...

Anyhow, the notion of titles interests me. And the Royal Guard TIE sets a precedence that the title cards do not have to be a specific name. It opens the way for Red/Rogue Squadron X-wing, Gold/Gray Squadron Y-wing etc.

I would argue that surviving in the face of overwhelming odds is a hallmark of the truly elite, whereas making a sacrificial lamb of oneself is not. If you've ever read any Medal of Honor stories, you'll find that they come in two distinct varieties - those who accomplish truly amazing feats, like Sergeant York, and those who straddle the subtle line between courage and foolishness and end up paying the ultimate price. Anyone can jump on a grenade, and I've always disagreed with issuing people who do our nations highest award.

I think adding elite skills to pilots that don't have them would be great for campaigns.

I think adding elite skills to pilots that don't have them would be great for campaigns.

good point.

i also think it will allow for more ships to be played - more diversity. All of a sudden you will be looking through your hardly used pilots and be thinking - yeah this guy would be good with a specific pilot talent.

Garven Dreis would actually get to use Deadeye and make it good.

Horton Salm with Marksmanship would be amazing.

Han Solo with PTL and Barrel roll - now that would give him the ability to fly like he does in the movies.

A group of Tie-Advanced all with PTL - scary.

Players would be able to match upgrades to ships that normally get none.

I would love to see a title that does something other than cost points.

I've been knocking a potential modification around in my head that I'm tentatively calling "Streamlined" or "Hot-Rodded", where you have lowered hull in exchange for gaining the ability to take a +1 to any maneuver you have, up to the maximum (3 or 5 distance).

For instance, a shuttle with it would have RED 3 turns, GREEN 1 and 2 banks, GREEN 3 forward, WHITE 4 forward, and a WHITE 3 bank, but only 3 or 4 hull.

I would argue that surviving in the face of overwhelming odds is a hallmark of the truly elite...

Not entirely, elite doesn't mean being invincible or a superhero. It's just a level of competence and/or training that is very high. Our modern day special forces are elite, but they have been and can be defeated, but being defeated doesn't negate their elite status. Not to mention the question of what happens when elite goes up against elite. I'm sure the TIE pilots chosen to defend the Death Stars were no slouches themselves. And as mentioned before, Vader killed Biggs, not just some low ranking grunt out of the academy.

I guess I disagree with your dissing of rebel pilots based on the fact they didn't survive extremely difficult missions. That's a tall order for any pilot.

Even Luke Skywalker got shot down after all

And so too was Darth Vader (effectively)!

i also think it will allow for more ships to be played - more diversity. All of a sudden you will be looking through your hardly used pilots and be thinking - yeah this guy would be good with a specific pilot talent.

Garven Dreis would actually get to use Deadeye and make it good.

Horton Salm with Marksmanship would be amazing.

Han Solo with PTL and Barrel roll - now that would give him the ability to fly like he does in the movies.

A group of Tie-Advanced all with PTL - scary.

Players would be able to match upgrades to ships that normally get none.

I'd be cautious of stuff like this, if you can transform 1 ship into another ship you many run the risk of blurring the distinctions between pilots and ships. I would argue that forcing players to make hard choices between A and B is one of the game's strengths.

In a campaign setting, I have no real issue with adding EPS to pilots, named or not. But I think if you do so, you should name all pilots and just use the various noname stats. Possibly figuring out a progression system to advance them and to figure out what should merit such addition of EPS.

I would argue that surviving in the face of overwhelming odds is a hallmark of the truly elite...

Not entirely, elite doesn't mean being invincible or a superhero. It's just a level of competence and/or training that is very high. Our modern day special forces are elite, but they have been and can be defeated, but being defeated doesn't negate their elite status. Not to mention the question of what happens when elite goes up against elite. I'm sure the TIE pilots chosen to defend the Death Stars were no slouches themselves. And as mentioned before, Vader killed Biggs, not just some low ranking grunt out of the academy.

I guess I disagree with your dissing of rebel pilots based on the fact they didn't survive extremely difficult missions. That's a tall order for any pilot.

Even Luke Skywalker got shot down after all

And so too was Darth Vader (effectively)!

i also think it will allow for more ships to be played - more diversity. All of a sudden you will be looking through your hardly used pilots and be thinking - yeah this guy would be good with a specific pilot talent.

Garven Dreis would actually get to use Deadeye and make it good.

Horton Salm with Marksmanship would be amazing.

Han Solo with PTL and Barrel roll - now that would give him the ability to fly like he does in the movies.

A group of Tie-Advanced all with PTL - scary.

Players would be able to match upgrades to ships that normally get none.

I'd be cautious of stuff like this, if you can transform 1 ship into another ship you many run the risk of blurring the distinctions between pilots and ships. I would argue that forcing players to make hard choices between A and B is one of the game's strengths.

I can see my suggestions are really geared towards house rules, campaign rules or perhaps special format events. The game isnt broken. Not even close. It does suffer a bit from 'same-old' at times with players choosing from the same old ships and upgrades. Yes there are exceptions and yes the game allows you to customize and try your own squads and play anything you like.

X-Wing caters for both casual and competitive players. I get that. Because if this FFG has had to blurr the lines between casual play and competitive play (to cater for All players) and thats sort of where I am as a player. I want to be competitive and win but i also want to be able to choose from a range of ships that are good enough to win. I can see that certain pilots (both non-name and name pilots) virtually NEVER see play and I am asking myself why? The answer is because there are better options.

If I am choosing 'between' ships i am going to go with the most powerful option or the ship that is more durable or the ship that complements my strategy, i get that -its only id like some more options sometimes, something that lets me say 'wait a minute, i dont think anyone has tried this yet?'

Im sure that the new expansions (imperial intercepters, Rebel Transport) will make a huge difference and add many more options for gamplay. In the meantime I'm looking for ways to changeup things a little.

I am mostly still playing with my young nephew, but I've played a few games now using solo rules and I nearly always go with randomised squads based on a suggestion by Jay Little. It's a good way of getting you to try out things you wouldn't otherwise do.

edit: basically, I shuffle the pilot cards and draw until I go over 80 pts, then I'll do the same for upgrades (replacing into the random deck any that cannot be use for that ship).

Totally understandable. I read a lot of the battle reports and I see some of these builds and I question everything. I am one of tjose players that tries to use as many upgrades as I can, because I feel it adds flavor to the game. I like all the extra stuff that comes with a ship that has PtL and Engine upgrade cards.. or a bomber with 2 missiles and a bomb.. maybe a hull or shield upgrade...

I want to play games where each side has a chance to win, due more to their strategy or 'flying' capabilities. I feel many players discount upgrades because some ships just don't really get them.. just a ship upgrade fornsome.. so you see 7 academy TIEs and a heavy on the table for a swarm.. that's just numbers working for you, and beating the average odds. You wanna impress me take a couple ships load them up and beat me.. I enjoy the game and maybe we cut holes in the table with all of our fancy flying.. bad side for me, I like the imperial side.. so its a real possibility of the one shot kill. That is ok with me because in the movies, the empire is the bad guy and they are supposed to lose.. but I really enjoy a good battle, yes I wish TIEs had a couple more hit points.. maybe all ships should have dpuble hull points, just have a bunch of criticals that say 'boom, you're dead' and there you have your one shot kill. But you also get some time to shoot off all that ordnance as well..

Until I get to some tournament play I am really enjoying the games with friends, but I know I will try some different styles when my local store starts hosting some official tourney play... will I lose some games... of course I will.. will it deter me from playing.. heck no.. will I still show up with my barely played new 'flavor squad' you bet your bippy I will..

I also would love to run a campaign scenario and add some cool house rules.. might even check here for some nifty thoughts to that effect. It's all about the fun, cause when it isn't fun anymore.. you'll see my stuff on ebay.. lol