How many Jedi specializations there are boils down to how many talents can be added without just winding up being talents for the sake of talents. I get the feeling there won't be many careers. I think what there will be is 2 or 3 base careers maybe with multiple focus trees similar to the exile and the emergent. So someone will choose between base careers like Consular/Sentinel/Guardian career, and then there will be the various foci you can spend into that will further define the Jedi's capabilities, just as there are the basic sense, move, influence type trees, I think so to there will be something similar in F&D if not more overt, like schools of light saber techniques, etc.

The Jedi Classes Kotor concept were pretty fine, I liked them alot, but I would like that people from FFG surprise me.

New Jedi conceptions and "classifications". No idea about what but, anything new "more movie/series focused". I have a lot of confidence in FFG team. Until now, the game fits almost 100% in my style. I have to say that I'm a bit too slow yet counting dice results but... well, its just a problem that I can accept.

The Jedi Classes Kotor concept were pretty fine, I liked them alot, but I would like that people from FFG surprise me.

New Jedi conceptions and "classifications". No idea about what but, anything new "more movie/series focused". I have a lot of confidence in FFG team. Until now, the game fits almost 100% in my style. I have to say that I'm a bit too slow yet counting dice results but... well, its just a problem that I can accept.

I like the dice apps.

Yeah me too but my player is a "Dice-Rolling-and-Crashing-on-table-sound" lover XD

I want to play a bit more to see if I can gain some agility counting without cutting the climax on the scene counting. But as I said its a "minor problem".

There is a dice limit on the official app 2P51?

Yeah me too but my player is a "Dice-Rolling-and-Crashing-on-table-sound" lover XD

I want to play a bit more to see if I can gain some agility counting without cutting the climax on the scene counting. But as I said its a "minor problem".

There is a dice limit on the official app 2P51?

A limit as in how many dice per roll? Not that I've encountered. You'd have to have a really buggered up circumstance to run out of room for total dice I would imagine.

If we're going to be stuck with the Consular/Guardian/Sentinel triumvirate the same way that we've been stuck with the alter/control/sense triumvirate (me using that word should tell you what I think of them both), they make more sense as career specializations for a single Jedi career, because a Jedi career should represent the "birth-trained". Remember, mechanically a career is simply a character's starting career skills and which three specializations are considered career specializations, determining which three choices they have for:

• Getting one for free at character creation
• Getting a discount (albeit of only 10 XP) for buying into after character creation

Keep the difference between career and specialization in mind... as well as the fact that the system is designed for or has the effect that a player can "freely multi-class" just by paying 10 more XP per non-career specialization.

The funny thing is, I get the sense that this is how FFG is reinforcing the idea of "balance" versus what d20 did, by mitigating the relevance/importance of your career choice while putting the "powerful stuff" into aspects (specializations, talents, and Force powers/upgrades thereof) that one can buy into after character generation irrespective of your starting career, so that you're no less a potential Jedi just because you didn't start with a class with base attack bonus +1/level...

Much as I don't want this to be the "all Jedi, all the time" book, mouthymerc does bring up some good suggestions of how the Consular/Guardian/Sentinel split could be handled as three separate careers each with their own specs.

As for the concern of "new talent overload," I'd suggest a gander at DarthGM's "Edge of the Jedi" fan supplement. He managed to build a Jedi career with 3 specs and only using a single new/homebrew talent (Deflect Blasters) in each; all the rest were from the EotE core rulebook. So it's certainly do-able for the FFG design team to not have those specs be bogged down with new talents just for the sake of new talents. A good chunk of Jedi character types can be done making use of pre-existing talents already.

Gave the idea a bit more thought, and if FFG does go the route of making the three Jedi classifications into separate careers, here's how a break down might go:

Consular

- Archivist: Research, good with lore; would have similarities to the Scholar specialization.

- Healer: Using both regular medicine and Force-based techniques; some commonality with the Doctor specialization.

- Mediator: Focused on social skills and group harmony; thinking it might take some pages from the Ambassador spec.

Guardian

- Duelist: This is the one focused on lightsaber prowess, where you're likely to find most of the new lightsaber-based talents.

- General: The war leader, likely taking cues from the various Commander specs.

- "Ace": Mostly focused on starfighter combat, probably be pretty similar to the existing Pilot specializations. Iffy on the name, as there's already an Ace career.

Sentinel

- Investigator: Expert at solving crimes using both mundane and Force-based methods.

- Shadow: Sneaky, really good at uncovering traces of the dark side

- Watchman: A defender-type, likely with elements of Bodyguard and Survivalist

And, if running with the idea that other Force Traditions would be covered as specializations to a more general Force career, here's some thoughts on how it could go down...

Mystic (focusing more on the cerebral/mystical aspects of the Force

- Baran Do Sage

- Fallanasi

- Adept: This one is more of a general "crazy old wizard" than part of a larger tradition.

Warrior (focusing on the combat/physical aspects of the Force

- Matukai

- Kilian Rangers: Yeah, it's a holdover from the OCR, but I like these guys though they're not likely to show up; Jensaari are more likely.

- Champion: Again, a "generalist" spec, probably taking several cues from the Marauder.

Primitive (akin to the OCR/RCR Force Adept)

- Dathomir Witch

- Zeison Sha: they've been on their own for a while, even if not fully primitive.

- Shaman: Again, a generalist tradition that really plays up the mysticism angle, possibly with some social elements to reflect their role of leadership/guidance within a community.

Seeing as how FFG will need page space to reprint the various Force Powers from both EotE and AoR, I think five careers and fifteen specializations is a good starting point.

It might also be possible to have different careers/specs give bonuses/restrictions to certain powers.

Nah, specific talents within the specs as the method makes more sense than "the specs themselves".

the same way that we've been stuck with the alter/control/sense triumvirate

But we aren't stuck with them. We have Sense, but Alter and Control are already broken up. Even Sense is split into multiple powers (Sense and Foresee), and we haven't even seen the full scope of powers yet.

I am glad that the developers feel free to create systems that work rather than feeling beholden to the ways that previous editions did things. What I hope for the most out of Force and Destiny is to see what they come up with that I don't expect and haven't seen yet.

Gave the idea a bit more thought, and if FFG does go the route of making the three Jedi classifications into separate careers, here's how a break down might go:

Consular

- Archivist: Research, good with lore; would have similarities to the Scholar specialization.

- Healer: Using both regular medicine and Force-based techniques; some commonality with the Doctor specialization.

- Mediator: Focused on social skills and group harmony; thinking it might take some pages from the Ambassador spec.

Guardian

- Duelist: This is the one focused on lightsaber prowess, where you're likely to find most of the new lightsaber-based talents.

- General: The war leader, likely taking cues from the various Commander specs.

- "Ace": Mostly focused on starfighter combat, probably be pretty similar to the existing Pilot specializations. Iffy on the name, as there's already an Ace career.

Sentinel

- Investigator: Expert at solving crimes using both mundane and Force-based methods.

- Shadow: Sneaky, really good at uncovering traces of the dark side

- Watchman: A defender-type, likely with elements of Bodyguard and Survivalist

And, if running with the idea that other Force Traditions would be covered as specializations to a more general Force career, here's some thoughts on how it could go down...

Mystic (focusing more on the cerebral/mystical aspects of the Force

- Baran Do Sage

- Fallanasi

- Adept: This one is more of a general "crazy old wizard" than part of a larger tradition.

Warrior (focusing on the combat/physical aspects of the Force

- Matukai

- Kilian Rangers: Yeah, it's a holdover from the OCR, but I like these guys though they're not likely to show up; Jensaari are more likely.

- Champion: Again, a "generalist" spec, probably taking several cues from the Marauder.

Primitive (akin to the OCR/RCR Force Adept)

- Dathomir Witch

- Zeison Sha: they've been on their own for a while, even if not fully primitive.

- Shaman: Again, a generalist tradition that really plays up the mysticism angle, possibly with some social elements to reflect their role of leadership/guidance within a community.

Seeing as how FFG will need page space to reprint the various Force Powers from both EotE and AoR, I think five careers and fifteen specializations is a good starting point.

See and I think if you give Jedi this much utility you set up two games, the Jedi game and then everyone else. You're essentially suggesting they do everything every other class can do and be Jedi and I think that is a direct path to OP.

I see no reason that FFG is going to suddenly change gears on Force Powers and include them in specialization trees with other talents. I think we have in front of us the basis of how Jedi are going to work in the existing Exile and Emergent set up with force powers in addition. The question l think is how many Jedi trees will be added, and how many Force powers. I would suppose the new Jedi trees will add skills where the Exile and Emergent did not.

Gave the idea a bit more thought, and if FFG does go the route of making the three Jedi classifications into separate careers, here's how a break down might go:

Consular

- Archivist: Research, good with lore; would have similarities to the Scholar specialization.

- Healer: Using both regular medicine and Force-based techniques; some commonality with the Doctor specialization.

- Mediator: Focused on social skills and group harmony; thinking it might take some pages from the Ambassador spec.

Guardian

- Duelist: This is the one focused on lightsaber prowess, where you're likely to find most of the new lightsaber-based talents.

- General: The war leader, likely taking cues from the various Commander specs.

- "Ace": Mostly focused on starfighter combat, probably be pretty similar to the existing Pilot specializations. Iffy on the name, as there's already an Ace career.

Sentinel

- Investigator: Expert at solving crimes using both mundane and Force-based methods.

- Shadow: Sneaky, really good at uncovering traces of the dark side

- Watchman: A defender-type, likely with elements of Bodyguard and Survivalist

And, if running with the idea that other Force Traditions would be covered as specializations to a more general Force career, here's some thoughts on how it could go down...

Mystic (focusing more on the cerebral/mystical aspects of the Force

- Baran Do Sage

- Fallanasi

- Adept: This one is more of a general "crazy old wizard" than part of a larger tradition.

Warrior (focusing on the combat/physical aspects of the Force

- Matukai

- Kilian Rangers: Yeah, it's a holdover from the OCR, but I like these guys though they're not likely to show up; Jensaari are more likely.

- Champion: Again, a "generalist" spec, probably taking several cues from the Marauder.

Primitive (akin to the OCR/RCR Force Adept)

- Dathomir Witch

- Zeison Sha: they've been on their own for a while, even if not fully primitive.

- Shaman: Again, a generalist tradition that really plays up the mysticism angle, possibly with some social elements to reflect their role of leadership/guidance within a community.

Seeing as how FFG will need page space to reprint the various Force Powers from both EotE and AoR, I think five careers and fifteen specializations is a good starting point.

See and I think if you give Jedi this much utility you set up two games, the Jedi game and then everyone else. You're essentially suggesting they do everything every other class can do and be Jedi and I think that is a direct path to OP.

That would be an issue if the game were level-based. The way it is, though, if a Jedi spends XP to do everything you can, they can't do Jedi stuff well. You aren't going to get a Jedi who has a host of Force powers and is an expert pilot built with the same XP as the other expert pilot.

As far as lightsabers and Force Powers... we've already got that. It's called the Sense power, with the defensive and offensive Control Upgrades. Using a lightsaber well is typically a Jedi trait (with the Sith having cribbed off the Jedi), so things like blaster deflection and getting defensive boosts from using a lightsaber are more likely to be talents found in the various Jedi specializations.

While the sense power could allow for the bonuses a Jedi has for using a lightsaber, if that was the case wouldn't they have removed the deflection quality from the game as it wouldn't be needed. Also, not every Jedi was necessarily good at deflecting shots, let alone redirecting them which has been done. Jedi, Sith, Jensaraai all use lightsabers. I personally feel making it a power rather than something in a talent tree opens up more possibilities for characters. There are other characters that weren't Jedi or Sith that used lightsabers. If a lightsaber power offers up deflection and defensive qualities as passive abilities, it lets any Jedi Career/specialty focus on other things. However it is my hope that there won't be Jedi career/specialties and more generic career and specialty combos to make any force using character you desire.

As far as the names, in the EU the only groups to really have specific titles are the Jedi and the various Force Traditions. So I don't think we're going to see nothing but generic career and specialization titles for this book. FFG has kinda already done "generic Force-user specializations" with the Exile and the Emergent. I still think were more likely to see specializations that draw from the various Force Traditions of the EU for their names, as while the Jedi and Sith are the two major camps of Force-users, the EU has provided a large number of other Force-user groups, several of which were active during the Rebellion Era, and I believe it's been said that Force & Destiny is not strictly about playing Jedi, but more about playing Force-users in general.

As for it being the careers and not the specializations that grant a Force Rating 1 talent... the problem I see there is that if a PC without Force Rating 1 later wants to buy into one of those specs (kinda like how Leia eventually started training as a Jedi in the post-RotJ EU), they'd be hosed due to not getting that initial Force Rating; in effect, if they wanted a Force Rating,they'd either have to spend even more XP to pick up Exile or Emergent, or likely spend XP on Force-based talents they can't use until they finally manage to reach a Force Rating talent in the specialization tree. FFG's game design has been more about the players being treated fairly, not screwing them over, and since you can't change careers once the character's been made, it makes more sense to have the free Force Rating 1 be granted by the specialization, allowing EotE and AoR PCs to multi-class into F&D specializations without additional hassle.

The initial force rating is not given as a talent in the Exile and Emergent, taking that specialty just gives it. No extra cost or anything. Why couldn't a book that is all about force users, give the starting careers force rating 1? All the characters in THIS game will be equal. Every career will get this force rating.

Now, as to a character buying into a these specs from the other RPG lines, well.. I say 'suck it up'. Your character that you've been playing who decides to become a Jedi or what-not probably has other advantages they've spent experience on, not to mention additional gear that a new Force and Destiny character may not have. The option could be to give both the careers AND some specialties force rating 1. The emergent and exile's initial force rating does NOT STACK, so this won't unbalance anything.

It really depends on HOW Fantasy Flight wants to make this game. It could be along the lines of regular characters discovering force potential, and we only get Universal Specializations for force users. As it is, we don't know how this game will work.

On the species, I agree that Kel Dor, Nautalons, Togruta, and Zabraks are strong contenders. Twi'lek seems likely as a reprint given the prominence of Twi'lek Jedi in the EU (particularly Aayla Secura). Gand I could see if the book includes some kind of Findsman specialization (or career, though I think a specialization is more likely). Cathar and (especially) Miraluka are tied far more strongly to the KOTOR era, so I don't think they're likely to show up given that FFG is sticking pretty close to the Rebellion Era; so far only the Toydarians fall outside that era, but they're fairly close given Watto's presence just prior to the Clone Wars. I wouldn't mind seeing Whiphids be included; it's an unusual choice (kinda like including Gand in EotE was) and they do have a notable EU representative in the form of Master K'kruhk (he of the awesome hat).

In terms of Force Powers, the only thing really missing based on what we see in the films that's not already published is a true direct-damage power, something to cover Vader's Force choke and the Emperor's Force lightning. More than likely it'd be fueled by using Dark Side pips on the Force die, much the same way inflicting negative emotions via Influence's "affect thoughts" Control Upgrade does.

We might see a few new weapons, but I think it also depends on which Force Traditions get covered. The Matukai and Zeison Sha each have a signature weapon, so if they're included as specializations, then those weapons are in. Also depends on how much attention primitive Force-user cultures are given, as there's more than just the Dathomir witches and Nightsisters; spears and bows would be enough to cover most of them. I'm kinda hoping we don't see a bunch of variant lightsabers in the initial book; at most the short lightsaber/shoto and the double-bladed lightsaber, but leave the other variants for a later supplement.

As I said, no one but the powers that be at Fantasy Flight know how this force centric book will be. I hope for more generic careers that, with whatever the duty/obligation analogue is, allow ANY AND ALL force using traditions to be represented, and we get a game that is focused on characters discovering their force potential and embracing it to rekindle a lost tradition or join one that suites their personality. While many do want a Jedi focus, I think that it would be a disservice to creativity everywhere to give us a game that only focuses on Jedi. Yes they should be front and foremost, but there are so many other options that can be shown, not to mention anything players and GM's might want to invent. Give us the tools to do this right away please!

What do I think Force & Destiny will look like?

I think it will have a blue cover. I mean, we've had white and red.

AoR Beta, page 7 paragraph 2: "in Star Wars: Force and Destiny, the players become figures of legend; the last surviving Force users in the galaxy. Hunted by the Empire, they must stay alive and more importantly, stay true to the ideals of their forebears-the fabled Jedi"

That sounds like Jedi only with alternative traditions coming in supplement books

I would also like to see some scary dark side powers! Highly dangerous, highly tempting, dark side powers. Perhapse being able to use the basic level of the dark side powers without purchasing it and have force lightining deal 10-15 damage as a base! Talk about seductive

I haven't read through all fourteen pages so if this was brought up before I apologize.

I'm not sure that they will go with the three known paths (Consular, Guardian, Sentinel). It's been a long time since I read anything about the years between RoJ and the New Jedi Order but I do remember it's 20 or so years and I don't think Luke started training new Jedi in the same way as they did pre-Clone Wars. I mean he wasn't trained that way. If anyone has some material that shows he did train new Jedi this way I'm open to it but I think FFG will likely use a softer approach. I would be happier if it was a single but larger, more expansive Jedi career tree plus trees for Sith and other non-Jedi Force users.

I don't think force lighting is going to work like that. In all of the films, the only time we saw force lightning actually kill anybody was when Sidious blasted Mace Windu out the window of the Chancellor's chambers after Anakin/Vader severed his arm, and even then presumably the fall killed him. Rather, that power is to inflict pain, lots of it, and over a period of time. As such, I see it doing strain damage that eventually could kill... rather than simply doing a whole bunch of damage.

I don't think force lighting is going to work like that. In all of the films, the only time we saw force lightning actually kill anybody was when Sidious blasted Mace Windu out the window of the Chancellor's chambers after Anakin/Vader severed his arm, and even then presumably the fall killed him. Rather, that power is to inflict pain, lots of it, and over a period of time. As such, I see it doing strain damage that eventually could kill... rather than simply doing a whole bunch of damage.

I agree that Force Lightning should to Strain Damage and not Wound Damage. There are also cool effects that could be added to Force Lightning like Staggered, Immobilized or Disoriented.

Exemple :

Force Lightning inflicts 8 soakable strain damage, if damage dealt is superior to brawn target is staggered for 1 turn.

I don't think force lighting is going to work like that. In all of the films, the only time we saw force lightning actually kill anybody was when Sidious blasted Mace Windu out the window of the Chancellor's chambers after Anakin/Vader severed his arm, and even then presumably the fall killed him. Rather, that power is to inflict pain, lots of it, and over a period of time. As such, I see it doing strain damage that eventually could kill... rather than simply doing a whole bunch of damage.

I dunno, it seemed like the Emperor was only just holding back the power of his Force lighting to draw our Luke's agony not because he couldn't kill him with it. If Vader hadn't acted when he did I'm sure he would have killed him. It was certainly implied that he was killing him with it and It did arguably finish Vader off. Also keep in mind that at this point in the series before Lucas lost is mind the Emperor (and Yoda for that matter) likely never used a Lightsaber, he does consider them beneath him, and probably could kill with the Force alone just as easily as Vader could with his Force choking.

I'm not saying that the Force Lighting isn't capable of killing, I believe it is... but if it were able to insta-kill, Vader and Yoda would have both been dead when they were first hit. Palpatine derived pleasure from inflicting pain, which is why he used it the way he did. I'll still argue that it primarily inflicts strain damage, which incapacitates and tortures, and over an extended period of time it would certainly do physical damage. Force lightning was is as much a display of power as it is a viable (primarily stunning) weapon.

Well a trained Force user can very likely protect themselves from FL's effects so it wouldn't be an insta-kill, it would have to do damage exceeding their ability to shield themselves from it and this would likely take some time. Rounds are a minute though so how much time would depend on the folks involved. A minute of FL is certainly enough time to kill a muggle.

Force powers should be awesome, almost to the point of Plot, and I suspect they will be just as Lightsabers are. These major powers will likely be balanced by other things and as long as the GM doesn't hand wave stuff or break it with a Hour Rule it'll probably work just fine. Personally I'd prefer these powers to be as we see them and not video-game-y.

Force Lightning could also include a mechanic where you can commit a Force die to keep the target immobilized or staggered or something, and then give the target a Resilience check or something to break out.

About Force Lightning, I'd suspect that it'd either be part of a 'direct damage' Force power, or that we won't see it except as an NPC special ability. And pretty sure the RotJ novelization (or least other EU) made it pretty clear that up until the point Palpatine says "And now young Skywalker... you will die," he was toying with Luke, only doing enough harm with his lightning to make it hurt, but not enough to put Luke's life in serious danger; it was torture, pure and simple, and Palp's way of demonstrating that he was the one in control of the situation. That and he was pissed that this upstart farm boy pretty much told the Emperor where to stick the offer of becoming a Sith Apprentice, souring what the Emperor likely saw as a crowning achievement in his scheme to crush the Rebellion once and for all.