Hey ive ran a few campaigns now, most used the beginner game and the beginner downloadable story arcs. But what ive found is that bwarn seems to be a bit out of balance with the other stats.

We have one player in the first campaign who abused it and was able to roll 4 yellow dice each time, not to mention when the storm troopers hit him and even the journeyman hunters he was only suffering about 1-2 damage after his soak. He was also able to cut thru 2-3 gamoreans in the first act with one swing using the minion chain rules.

So am i as a gm running this wrong or are players really supposed to be that powerful in this game?

Note that the other players had a much more difficult time. One went pure pilot and slicer with a bit of doctor sprinkled in and he got owned. Another went heavy agility for ranged rifles and while he hit hard at about 2-3 yellow dice he still could only take 2 or 3 hits from a rival or nemesis before going down.

I tried in my newest campaign with the new ppl to have everyone build evenly but we found that they were having a really hard time with the storm troopers and the journeyman hunters, and were getting frustrated.

Weve discussed it and had the idea to rebuild the characters, but split brawn so that it builds like its 2 stats.

IE u can buy 1 point of brawn to use for your offensive stats and abilities and before u can buy another point for offensive u must buy 1 point for defensive abilities and stats. This way it builds evenly and is harder to max as brawn is costing double to level.

Has anyone else been having a balance issue with brawn? It seems to me that the other stats are pretty balanced out but when it comes to brawn all someone has to do it throw all their points into brawn and then max out their melee specializations. then they just need to spend cash on decent armor and or sword and bam, they have an op practically jedi character.

So what do the more experienced gm's here suggest, should we stick with our house rules to balance out the brawn or am i just doing something completely wrong?

Also note the person who played the really op brawn character in the first campaign is playing the same thing in my new campaign. I has capped him at 3 brawn during the build which he was not happy about but he is still managing to roll 3 yellow dice when he swings his vibrosword.

So yeah any advice how to fix this would be greatly appreciated because i want the campaign to be balanced out and fun for the whole group. Not just one or two people who built combat heavy and always attack stormtroopers or elites when i warn the group of the danger lol.

(They r nice guys its just their playstyle is a bit unbalanced)

Also note i am running the official campaigns and we are into the downloadable beginner game content currently, after this well most likely run the adventure in the core book or the game master kit.

Yep, that's about right. The only useful comparison there is your Ranged Heavy and Agility character, as he is also combat focused. Comparing these two to your pilot/doctor is useless as they are good in different arenas. My experience has been that, in exchange for the higher soak and wound threshold, Ranged characters simply do more damage. This isn't always the case, but Brawn certainly isn't broken. Beyond that, Agility is good for Stealth, Piloting, Coordination, and Gunnery whereas Brawn is only good for personal combat and Athletics.

Don't split Brawn. Just keep playing.

I don't have time for a full-on response right at the moment, but here are thee things to keep in mind;

1. Not everyone character is going to perform equally in battle, because not ever character focuses on fighting. A Pilot/Slicer isn't going to perform at NEARLYthe same level as a Bodyguard/Marauder. But when the party needs to forge false identification documents or make their way through a dense asteroid field, that Bodyguard/Marauder is going to take a backseat to the Pilot/Slicer. So on and so forth.

2. Agility is by far the most "overpowered" stat in this game because that's just the nature of Star Wars. Shooting blasters, swingng lightsabers, piloting vehicles, and sneaking around are all covered by Agility, which accounts for around half of the activies Star Wars characters regularly engage in. Meanwhile, the most "underpowered" stat is Willpower, since all it really controls is the character's ability to inimidate people, ignore fear, and see through lies; beyond that, it's really only useful for Force-users with particular powers.

3. Getting a character's soak up is way easier than just having a high Brawn (armor, internal implants, and the Enduring talent can do wonders), so if your enemies aren't doing enough damage you really need to give them better weapons (blaster rifles SHOULD do the trick) or reanalyze their tactics (they shouldn't just stand out in the open, and they should aim, double aim, and aim at specific body parts whenever possible) because I certainly haven't run into this problem just yet. (Even the gigantic droid Bodyguard in my group with soak 8 gets messed up from time to time.) You should also REALLY start running encounters and scenarios that have nothing to do with fighting, because combat monkeys need to creative when they're not shooting stuff, and the other characters deserve just as much screen time besides.

_{I don't think Willpower is underpowered. Coercion may not be important for too many characters, but Discipline and Vigilance are rolled all the time in my games.}

I also agree that while Brawn characters tend to withstand damage better, its the Agility-linked Ranged (Heavy) characters that really put out the damage. For many characters, a heavy blaster pistol is the only 'melee' weapon they need.

_{I don't think Willpower is underpowered. Coercion may not be important for too many characters, but Discipline and Vigilance are rolled all the time in my games.}

I also agree that while Brawn characters tend to withstand damage better, its the Agility-linked Ranged (Heavy) characters that really put out the damage. For many characters, a heavy blaster pistol is the only 'melee' weapon they need.

I was largely speaking hypothetically, hence the quotation marks. Discipline and Vigilance are two of the most important skills in the game, and an increased strain threshold can open up all sorts of options like aiming, double-aiming, and the activation of some potent talents. FFG did a fantastic job balancing the stats in this game, but I just can't help but notice that Willpower is probably the least likely candidate for a character's highest stat. Agility, Brawn, Presence, Intellect, and even Cunning all seem to be more popular for various reasons; I've yet to see anyone choose Willpower as their highest stat, and if they did I'd bet $1 that their character was a Force-user of some kind.

I thought it was a very odd decision for FFG to combine both Strength and Constitution.

But as others have said, the thing with min-maxing is that other stats have to be minimised. Your guy with Brawn 5 to start will only have 2's in other stats. That will start to hurt him if you challenge the characters in a variety of ways.

Start cutting the combat encounters - EoE isn't meant to be a fight-only game. There are plenty of situations where the characters have to hide, run or bluff their way out of situations. Look for ways to play to the strengths of the other characters. Make the Brawn guy realise that being well-rounded is a much better solution.

Not many SW characters are bodybuilders anyway, unless they are wookiees. Luke or Han or Obi-wan aren't especially buff, I'd say they had Brawn 3 tops. And 2 for Leia, who was plenty useful regardless.

As previous posters stated, balance comes from adventure design. If you are just moving from combat scene to combat scene, your non-combat PC's are either going to quit or make new PC's min/max for combat. Most of my effort in creating adventures is looking for ways to allow each PC a chance to do their schtick. Some of our sessions don't involve a single shot being fired but are still tense as the PC try to sneak past an overpowering threat, talk their way out of deadly situation, discover some information that gives them an advantage later, survive some environmental conditions they weren't prepared for, etc.

I personally haven't found Brawn over powered because moving out of cover to get into engaged range has usually resulted in taking heavy damage from focused fire. No intelligent adversary is just going to stand there and let themselves get destroyed by some dude swinging a sword. They will be seen as the biggest threat and generate the most attacks. Push the strain with your threat results. It's easier to wear down a high soak PC with strain than to try and get damage through their soak. This also forces them to use their advantage to recover strain versus gaining boost die and other effects.

The guy with the sword generally isn't the biggest threat. The biggest threat is the guy with an autofire-capable weapon (like the heavy blaster rifle).

I agree with everyone here. Part of the focus should be on session design, but not just incorporating other skill checks into the story, but into the combat as well. Minions don't last, but they need not be stupid. They see some brick house running at them with a vibro sword not going down from blaster hits, retreat is a perfectly acceptable tactic. Design a lot of long bridges or causeways swept by fire and Mr. Brawn probably will be less inclined to charge in. Highlight the need for long range sniper fire and maybe make some of the weapons turrets that are automated so the hacker can play a non gun part as well in the firefight.

As the GM you have to create the need in the story for the skill. It doesn't stop there though, you have to create the need but you also need to demonstrate to players the reward for having the skill and being good at it. Make selling the loot part of the story and players learn streetwise and negotiate are important. When taking the job show how Charm gets them a better pay out. Play around with other aspects of the universe as well. I just was elected to run a game and I can't wait to have them gamble in a casino, Joe Knuckles probably wouldn't be any good at playing cards or rolling dice at the tables.

The guy with the sword generally isn't the biggest threat. The biggest threat is the guy with an autofire-capable weapon (like the heavy blaster rifle).

From a meta perspective this is true. From the NPC's in-character perspective, would he or she be more frightened of the person shooting at them, or the person getting ready to slice them in half with a vibro-sword? If I'm in a situation where someone is autofiring and another person is charging me with a sword, I would probably pop a grenade and move away as far and as fast as possible.

In four man groups it can be tough to cover all the necessary skills. I think the GM and the players need to work together during character creation.

The guy with the sword generally isn't the biggest threat. The biggest threat is the guy with an autofire-capable weapon (like the heavy blaster rifle).

From a meta perspective this is true. From the NPC's in-character perspective, would he or she be more frightened of the person shooting at them, or the person getting ready to slice them in half with a vibro-sword? If I'm in a situation where someone is autofiring and another person is charging me with a sword, I would probably pop a grenade and move away as far and as fast as possible.

In the world of Star Wars, pretty much everyone knows how dangerous blasters are, especially rifles. They may have an idea that the guy with the sword is dangerous, but he still has to run up to you to hit you.

In four man groups it can be tough to cover all the necessary skills. I think the GM and the players need to work together during character creation.

Very good point. Sitting down and asking the kinds of things a group would like to do, highlighting the sorts of skills they need, and agreeing on roles of members is essential in making everyone as useful as possible the most frequently.

See one of thr problems were running into is that the characters with good negotiation and diplomacy cant talk there way out of situations and the lower combat characters cant just run cuz the high combat players never pass up a chance to fight, it doesnt matter if its 6 stormtroopers or an ATST they just cant seem to run from battle. And this seems to be why things get imbalanced because now the non combat pro characters are getting caught in the crossfire and the op melee guy is just tearing the troopers up when he catches them and barely taking any damage.

Like i said im running the official missions right now and untill i get past the beginner stuff there allot of combat and situations where the players should run or be creative but because of "leeroy jenkins" the always end up in a battle that only 1 or 2 can really survive.

See one of thr problems were running into is that the characters with good negotiation and diplomacy cant talk there way out of situations and the lower combat characters cant just run cuz the high combat players never pass up a chance to fight, it doesnt matter if its 6 stormtroopers or an ATST they just cant seem to run from battle. And this seems to be why things get imbalanced because now the non combat pro characters are getting caught in the crossfire and the op melee guy is just tearing the troopers up when he catches them and barely taking any damage.

Like i said im running the official missions right now and untill i get past the beginner stuff there allot of combat and situations where the players should run or be creative but because of "leeroy jenkins" the always end up in a battle that only 1 or 2 can really survive.

Put a sniper in a bell tower and shoot the melee guy down..............

yagyu, one possible solution to this might be to actually have the characters experience the consequences that come with this kind of recklessness.

If your "Leeroy Jenkins" type characters always rush into battle and don't work to protect the non-combat characters, or if they run into a battle they clearly cannot win, then play out the results!

Have the non-combat characters incapacitated or captured. Have the AT-ST blast the characters and they wake up with heavy wounds in an Imperial prison.

In the real world, if you were on a team with somebody that didn't play along with the team and constantly got you into danger and you failed at your objectives, you might not team up with that person for long.

In an RPG you can either deal with this at the player level (group up with different people who have better sense of teamwork), or you can do your best to help the characters learn their weaknesses and grow.

After enough times where the PCs don't reach they goal because of the reckless fighters, the Smuggler, Politico and Explorer might sit those characters down and have a "talk" with them about teamwork...

If Leroy Jenkins is causing most of the group to get shot up and taken out…why are they hanging around? Seriously, when Leroy jumps into they fray, the other characters should beat feet and get the hell out of there! Use the distraction to sneak past, escape, or whatever the actual objective is. Seriously, would you hang around with someone who is constantly getting you shot at when they know better? I wouldn't.

Sounds like your table needs to have a chat with Mr. Jenkins. Let him/her know the issue the group is having, and what they group wants him/her to do to "fix" the issue. Try talking to them one-on-one, and see if they change their tune. If not, it may be time for a group discussion. Talk it out, and hopefully everyone will be happy!

-EF

But see i dont just wanna kill him, plus even if i did that then everyone else gets slaughtered, these guys r very "my character would do this even if it kills him" playstyle so if they r in a battle they tend to fight to the death. The thing im looking for is a way to balance it out so everyone can enjoy combat with a bit of a challenge but not be a slaughter to everyone but the guy with the highest brawn and soak.

It sounds like you need to have a discussion with your players about this. Explain that it isn't fun for the other players if they're always being dragged into trouble. In a fantasy game I'm a player in, we have one player who consistently waded in full throttle. His stated rationale was that he didn't think the GM was going to kill his character off, so he's going to do what he wants. Well, he's right, the GM has invested a ton of time into the story, of which this other player's character was a key part. It got to the point though that the GM finally decide to rewrite the story in case that player met his end. He had to up the scale of the encounters and bring the player's character to the point of death. It came down to a single die roll, which the GM rolled openly and said "if this result kills you it will stand". Luckily he didn't die. The player finally got the point, and has been easier to deal with since.

So I'd just bring down the wrath. Surely if they're just killing stormtroopers left and right, their descriptions are on file and somebody wants to bring them in. You can even pre-warn them that they must be making a name for themselves, and if their response is "bring it on", then do it. In a battle scene, the stormtroopers aren't stupid, they're going to focus on the most threatening characters, and that won't be the colonists and explorers, it will be the wookiees, etc. Throw in whatever Rival-level NPCs you need to bring these characters down.

Note: you don't necessarily have to kill them. There is no "death-clock" in this game. But capturing them can make for a few good scenarios as they have to rely on "lesser" characters who have useful skills like bribing guards, picking locks, etc. And make space for good uses of Brawn that don't necessarily mean chopping things up...holding open a blast door so everyone can escape, etc.

If they still don't get it, then kill their characters. I wouldn't let one or two players derail the experience for everyone else.

Well, if their character's are in the "I'll do this even if it kills me" mindset, then by all means kill them! Let them know ahead of time that "even a Corellian wouldn't take these odds." If they decided to do it anyway, let them live with the consequences. If they complain about it, remind them that you did warn them.

But first try to talk to them. That usually solves the issue. If it doesn't, do what whafrog said.

-EF

But see i dont just wanna kill him, plus even if i did that then everyone else gets slaughtered, these guys r very "my character would do this even if it kills him" playstyle so if they r in a battle they tend to fight to the death. The thing im looking for is a way to balance it out so everyone can enjoy combat with a bit of a challenge but not be a slaughter to everyone but the guy with the highest brawn and soak.

The main reason most people don't act like this in real life is because there are consequences if you do.

If there aren't any consequences to the players or characters who act this recklessly, they might not see the need to change.

I agree that it's a good idea to discuss this with the players first.

There's a difference between "fun reckless", like Han Solo charging after the Stormtroopers on the Death Star, and "not fun reckless", which leaves your non-combat characters always sitting around never getting to use their charm, negotiation or hacking skills because Leroy Jenkins is always charging into battle with everyone you encounter.

I would be inclined to start giving out obligation to mechanically represent the repercussions of the players actions, eventually the obligation will build up and the players will not be able to spend XP, the players will then do their best to reign in the gun bunny.

He will also have some story time dedicated to resolving threats or outcomes, and he might have to use more than his gun skills to sort things out.

I would be inclined to start giving out obligation to mechanically represent the repercussions of the players actions, eventually the obligation will build up and the players will not be able to spend XP, the players will then do their best to reign in the gun bunny.

He will also have some story time dedicated to resolving threats or outcomes, and he might have to use more than his gun skills to sort things out.

My crew blasted their way out of Mos Shuuta, destroying a patrol of Tie fighters as the escaped. This doubled the Obligation of the poor basterd who's Obligation had been triggered that session. And Lieutenant Herkin is fast becoming a major mover and shaker in the campaign because of it.

Not that they had much of a choice really, the poor wretches, but killing Imperial military personell and destroying Imperial property vital to the war effort is very much a class 1 infranction....

It seems kinda harsh giving them extra Obligation when the starter adventure is on-rails and they don't really have a lot of choice there.

One of the first pieces of advice about GMing I got many, many moons ago comes from the movie "The Crow";

It can't rain all the time.

Give your players a break from time to time. Let their stupid ideas work, and remind yourself to resist the temptation to indulge their paranoia for your own amusement. Happy players will return for future games, and VERY happy players will even reorganize their lives in order to make weekly/bi-weekly games a serious commitment. Especially if all of your players are adults, you owe it to them to reward them with more than just XP; do everything in your power to make their characters the center of all the action, the Tony Sopranos through which all major campaign events begin and (hopefully) end.