I just received the new 4th Edition Dragons Expansion for Talisman as a gift. I have the Old 2nd Edition game in its entiriorty with all the expansions except "Dragons". Can one use the new "Dragons" 4th Ed. with the old game and is there a conversion for doing so?
Thanks!
I don't think that there is a conversion!
But the main problem with 4th edition 'The Dragon' is that this expansion is completely different to the 2nd edition 'The Dragons'.
Here are some infos:
Thanks for the info...I am guessing that they want you to buy all the new set and expansion and just disregard the old classic board etc.
I was never able to get a second ed. Dragons expansion. Do you know how it is different? And is there anyway one can use the new with the old?
Thanks again...
I own and play both, still don't have 2 expansions for 4th edition including Dragons, but have played it. I have also played 2nd edition Dragons.
The expansions for the games are different, even tho both have city, dragons, and dungeon, they are not similar. I like 2nd edition City better, but like the rules of 4th better.
Now I have not played a lot of Dragons, but what I can remember is in 2nd edition there is no board. The cards are just mixed in the deck, several large dragons like 8 Strength or more, with some new characters.
4th edition comes with a board, and the cards are not Adventure cards but new decks you pull from. 3 main dragons fighting for control, whomever is the lead dragon, you pull cards from their deck. However, many many people do not like 4th edition Dragons, and many people either do House rules, change rules if they play Dragons at all.
Wow...thanks a lot for the information. Never thought that having 2nd edition would be so difficult to incorporate the new 4th edition with it...
I don't think it would be to difficult actually playing 4th edition dragon in 2nd edition. If my memory and info is correct there are no adventure cards.
There are other rule changes and the biggest is fate. There are forum discussions on adding fate to 2nd edition, you may wanna view such talks.
I don't like Dragon expansion 4th ed, and many other don't as well, so I would advise playing it before buying it, if that is possible unless the cost doesn't mean anything.
And many who do play it play with rule changes.
I have played it, but don't own it. My friend likes playing with everything
and owns it. I may buy it if I find it cheap.
There is a board and it replaces the center, tho I think this is one of 2-3 options of how to play it. It may be required don't remember. But the 2nd edition board is much smaller than the 4th edition so it won't fit. I actually play 4th ed with the 2nd ed board to save space! Tho you could easily put the dragon board on the side if you have room.
Dragons contains 3 new Dragon decks, so you just simply use those when needed. The rules will show you which deck to use, as the 3 Dragons fight to become king and you pull from the King dragons deck when needed.
I can't remember any other significant changes or needs for this, but I am by no means an expert and have only played Dragons 3-5 times.
Hope this info helps more.
BTW, I like 2nd Edition City more than 4th!
Oh as for adding other expansions, the biggest hurdle would be to use their Adventure cards. With Dragon, which doesn't have Adventure cards it may actually be almost easy to incorporate, if my info above is right.
2nd Ed and 4th Ed have different sizes, so sleeving may not be an option either. Some expansions like Highlands have very few Adventure cards, adding options to get into the board thru other means, these could be ignored or you could make some other card like a gold card have a 50% chance of being the new card. an idea...
I love 2nd edition. I would not want the 4th ed city, nor the Dungeon, and just use the original. I don't like Dragon so wouldn't use it, but may be easily implemented. But it would be cool to use Highlands, tho I would house rule getting to the Crown of Command thru it, as I hate that easy access. As for the small expansions, forget it, tho you could still incorporate the Reaper NPC! Gotta add Fate tho. with some work you might be able to add the Werewolf too. And yeah there are forum discussions on these elsewhere.
I would look elsewhere for Fan made 2nd edition expansions. I have some downloaded and plan on trying them sometime.
Edited by DomaGBThe 2nd edition of Talisman is really showing its age now. The revised 4th edition is much more polished. The cards are better quality, the board is better quality, the artwork is better quality, the rule changes have improved the game, the card backs from each expansion match each other, there are more expansions in the new edition as well. The only thing I miss from the 2nd edition is the Raiders card affecting Objects as well as gold! Time for 2nd edition to be consigned to history.....
The 2nd edition of Talisman is really showing its age now. The revised 4th edition is much more polished. The cards are better quality, the board is better quality, the artwork is better quality, the rule changes have improved the game, the card backs from each expansion match each other, there are more expansions in the new edition as well. The only thing I miss from the 2nd edition is the Raiders card affecting Objects as well as gold! Time for 2nd edition to be consigned to history.....
In most things I agree, but there are some things in 2nd Edition that are better:
1. Smaller game board
2. Better City expansion (tho I never liked the no fighting in the city rule, but I think 2nd Edition City expansion is my favorite expansion among all Talisman products)
3. Timescape
4. Better Dragon expansion (tho its not great)
5. Character sheets! (Tho eventually we stopped using them due to loss of table space
)
If I am gonna play Talisman and it has to be with every expansion, I would choose 2nd Edition hands down. However, if I can pick and choose editions and expansions, I would choose 4th edition two out of three times (leaving out Dragon, half of Bloodmoon, and house ruling Highlands)
Edited by DomaGBYou swore on number three! Ghastly Sci-fi expansion........
I would play or possibly use some 2nd edition elements... if I could find it, wherever it is in this house, LOL.
having said that, I'm not going to really compare the 2nd and the 4th, but will say, that the 'polishing' of the 4th makes me favor it.
I can see where 4th Edition Dragons could be played in 2nd Ed, per Doma's comments.
I am a player who uses all expansions, but switching around the use of the Dragon 'inlay board' from the 4th.
We occasionally do not use the board, but every other feature of the Dragon expansion for 4th. We mostly use the board, but only the Realm side. We haven't played the Dragon Tower side of the board, not sure if and when we will.
Like Doma says Players who use 4th Dragons may use some house rules. Ours is pretty simple.
Mostly a delay of the scales being pulled on each players' turn. This seems to be the main complaint, that Dragon scales proliferate too quickly (but the design idea is to force you to get up to the Inner region and challenge sooner).
So to delay the pulling (and it is arbitrary and hit and miss, btw) we do not pull scales unto after the first Dragon is encountered by any player, from any of the regular Adventure decks.
We use an in-story kind of reasoning. That the Dragon Lords are mostly not paying attention to the realm - until one of their own is encountered. Works for us, and as said above, it may not happen right away or it might anyway depending on the draw of the cards.
This still leaves possibilities for those who either want to continue to slow scales, with certain characters having the ability to replace the drawn card with another card. So the Prophetess and similar characters have helped "foresee" the Dragon menace and help contain it (for a while).
In our last game I used a spell that voided the card being drawn - since it was a Dragon. Things like that help in the delay of pulling scales, if that is how you want to accomplish that.
Recently we thought of other ideas, more of a limit on scales.
1) If you use the Blood Moon set's Day/Night dynamic, you could say that Dragons scales shedding occurs during the day because they don't journey much at night (have no idea if there is any traditional Dragon lore on that, and we have not agreed to it, ourselves, btw)
2) Exception: When using the City, consider that Dragon's avoid the City during the day (at least) because a City's defenses would possibly be something they would avoid (again, "in-story" reason).
but - at Night, the Dragon's are possibly attracted to the City's fire/lights, as Dragons may be. Therefore, in the City, scales are only pulled at Night.
As I said we haven't agree to this, but it kind of has it's own story for the game, and a twist I find interesting.
Don't be afraid of 4th Edition anything and consider moving as you can, to that 'platform'.
The only thing I miss from the 2nd, actually, is Timescape (but my wife/coplayer doesn't miss it very much at all).
So I'm the rarer player. I like Dragon (enough) in the 4th, whereas many seem to not.
I would like a 4th edition version of Timescape, whereas many seem to not want that at all.
You swore on number three! Ghastly Sci-fi expansion........
Oh it wasn't ghastly - since that is a horror term, to me. But you make me wonder if there would be a way to house rule it for less sci-fi ghastly.
One of my favorite fantasy series, The Witch World, by Andre Norton, is set in a medieval-ish world of Witches, Wizards and various other characters more of fantasy.
But in the original story and 1 or 2 sequels, an Earthman comes to live in this world through a "gate", which resembles a mini stonehenge, I suppose, but transport him across time and space to the Witch World.
Other novels have a very tech and alien race 'invade' the Witch World (but they lose) and another one has Witch World witches traveling to some dystopian tech-type world, too.
So it's not like the concept is unknown to fantasy. (those stories are from the early/mid '60s).
With that in mind, perhaps a new Timescape should be similar to the Nether Realm in one respect - more of an end-game or alt game scenario.
Wow...thanks a lot for the information. Never thought that having 2nd edition would be so difficult to incorporate the new 4th edition with it...
Well, they are different editions after all. Made by different companies. And with a good 20-odd years between them. I don't think it's that surprising that they would difficult to combine. =P
I have both Dragons expansions and to be honest I don't like either of them. The 2nd Edition version added a lot of cards an dragged the game out too long IMO and I don;t need to say anything more about the 4th edition version.
As for the two editions, they both have their pros and cons. We pulled out a version of 2nd Edition last time played and forgot how much fun it was. It seems a lot more challenging now compared to the 4th edition. The enjoyment of watching your rival getting 'Toaded' really did bring back memories. I would love to rip fate out of the 4th edition game, but it is seems too much effort than its worth.
I agree 2nd Edition Dragons isn't very good, but it is better than 4th edition.
My friends and I play 2nd edition every now and then still, but not often enough, in fact gaming doesn't happen often any more. Luckily for me my youngest is growing into a gamer!
I been playing games with him, and when he has friends over. We play Talisman, Tomb, and now Runebound, oh and not to forget Bang! (which is also new for us).
My son absolutely loves Talisman but during this Christmas break we have now played Runebound for the 1st time, and have 3 games under our belt and he likes it more than Talisman.
At this point I like them equally, they are different creatures, but one has not passed the other.
I will always like Talisman, 2nd and 4th edition. Its just not the only game I play, it is at this point tied at 2nd place. 1st place goes to RoboRally!
I agree 2nd Edition Dragons isn't very good, but it is better than 4th edition.
Agree to that!
My son absolutely loves Talisman but during this Christmas break we have now played Runebound for the 1st time, and have 3 games under our belt and he likes it more than Talisman.
At this point I like them equally, they are different creatures, but one has not passed the other.
I am the same situation, except with Descent and my daughter rather than son. I grew up with Talisman at a young age it was really the only non party style board game we played and we played it often. 4th is more polished yet more clinical version although my friends have been playing Talisman less and less over time. Still a great game and hopefully the expansions being released will incite some interest!
Edited by rfishaMore clinical...hmm, a very good observation. It's less campy, more mainstream.
For most of us its not the loss of Talisman interest, its getting the time when we can get together. Tho one in my group has confessed he has lost interest in Talisman.
We probably average at most 3 games a year now.
Once Digital Talisman has been ironed out we will probably play online much more often.