So, guys.

Great news - fatigue is going to be changed ! Finally !

But there is yet room for improvement.

Is the halving of fatigued characteristics a too hard penalty ? Or is it ok ?

Is it right to set back the fatigue on TB after passing out ? Or should it rather be set on the threshold (otherwise it would be a way to recover really fast) ?

What about shocking and Blood Loss ? Shouldnt they be changed to fit the new fatigue ?

I think it would be a great way to differ shocking from concussive.

And Blood Loss could become Blood Loss (X) like in Beta 1 - with Bleeder Rounds creating blood loss maybe ?

Whats your opinion ?

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing something beyond binary fatigued/not fatigued for a characteristic. Maybe a cumulative -5 for each point of fatigue in excess of the bonus. So, if you've got Agi 25, Toughness 30 and WP 30, you've got a -5 to Agi at 3 fatigue, -10 at 4, -15 at 5 -20 at 6, and unconscious at 7. Admittedly, it's extra bookkeeping, but I think it adds a sense of worsening situation to the thing.

I also would like a -5 (or -10) for each point of fatigue above the char bonus; but for some people that might be too complex.

I would like that though.

I considered -10 in my initial suggestion, but with two stats added to determine unconsciousness, you would probably have most of your characteristics at 0 well before passing out. That seemed like a game-play poor situation.

Thats right. So, IF a cumulative penalty, then -5 would make sense.

The trouble is that you have to assume that their highest stats are the ones they care about (specialization and all). Say I'm playing a master swordsman- If I've got TB 4, WP 4, WS 6, I'm only ever going to have a -10 or so to my weapon skill instead of the -30 that halving gives.

There's also the issue that, in this example, I don't care about fatigue at all up until right before I fall unconcious.

As the threshold is the sum of 2 characteristics, it is very likely that at some point all of your characteristics get fatigued.

What about this idea for fatigue which I think is pretty straight forward.

Your fatigue value is based on an average of your toughness and willpower. For example T 45 and W 35 would equal 40 so you have a fatigue value of 4.

I would then base the penalties against an average human with anything above giving a buffer against the penalty to represent tough ombres and mind over body types.

The penalties would then look something like...

1 level of fatigue = fatigued, -10 penalty to tests

2 level of fatigue = exhausted, -20 penalty to tests

3 levels of fatigue = unconscious, prone

Then if

Fatigue value = 4 or 5 you can soak 1 level before becoming fatigued

Fatigue value = 6 or 7 you can soak 2 levels before becoming fatigued

Fatigue value = 8 or 9 you can soak 3 levels before becoming fatigued

etc...

A value of 6 or 7 would generally be the max an acolyte would have (starting stat 45 +20 with xp).

edit: If taking fatigue is more prevalent in DH2 (i haven't had a chance to read through the pdf yet) then the values could be adjusted accordingly or instead of taking an average of stats for your value you could take the total instead.

I am of the opinion that a game system should have as little bookkeeping as is necessary to make the system work properly. In the case of fatigue, I think a scaling penalty is not necessary. If a character gains fatigue in multiple small increments over the course of a battle, their modifiers to different stats will change from round to round.

In my experience of pulling all-nighters for school/running cross country, I tend to function at more or less full capacity until I "hit a wall" and my focus/physical ability tanks. This sort of fatigue is modeled well by a non-scaling penalty.

A proposal:

> Fatigue threshold: TB + WPB (as currently)

> Fatigue goes away with 1 point per 1h rest

> if a character goes over the threshold, he gets unconscious for 10-TB minutes (min. 1 minute)

> if a character goes over the double threshold, he dies

> if a character gets conscious again after passing out from fatigue, his fatigue level is set to the threshold value

> if the fatigue level is higher than a characteristics bonus value, the characteristic counts as fatigued and gets -10 on all its tests

What creates fatigue:

> Blood Loss becomes Blood Loss (X) as in Beta 1, creating 1 fatigue each round while reducing X by 1 each round (as long as the character is conscious); first aid can reduce the X value; Bleeder rounds could create Blood Loss now; die hard allows to decrease the X even while unconscious

> shocking should deal fatigue instead of stun; DoF fatigue

> I would like fear to create 1 fatigue AFTER the encounter in which fear occured (exhausted after the adrenaline rush)

> fatiguing activities like running for a distance, or working under great pressure (defusing an explosive etc.)

> I could also think of psykers getting fatigue for using psy powers (maybe as a negative side effect if failing or from psychic phenomena)

> unarmed combat; grappling; takedowns

> crit tables should get some more blood loss (especially rending damage)

> long time without sleep (1 fatigue for each 6h more than 24h awake)