Hi everyone, I'm a Jinteki player, so in faction I have a lot of traps that trigger on access like Snare and Fetal AI. Recently I was playing with a guy in our local playgroup and he asked me a question, which I never thought about.

" What happens if he runs with multiple-access card ( medium/ maker's eye / R&D interface) and access more than of those cards with " on access triger" ? "

Now in normal circumstances, he would trigger all of those which access, but what happens if he gets enough points to win?

Here is the case I have in mind:

He is at 6 points

*runs Maker's eye to access 3 cards

He access Fetal, Fetal , Snare. How the flow goes?

He needs 1 of the Fetal's to win, but he access all 3 cards with triggers? Does he win before all the triggers go off? Or the triggering on access happens before he scores one of the Fetals?


I've never thought about this question, because in our local playgroup, when you access multiple cards from R&D we pull them up 1 by 1, having the runner decide what to do with each as we show it. So usually in such scenarios, if he pulls Fetal on the first and pays up everything he wins. ( often we don't even look into the two cards bellow)

However, now I see, that this might not be the case.


I also think that the question is relevant with regards, to the incoming Shocks and Archives. In one of the more heated threads ( http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/95759-hudson-10-and-archives/ ) at the moment, it seems that the correct way to access multiple cards from archives is :

- you flip all cards faced-down on a successful run
- the runner chooses in which order to access the cards , accessing one at a time

So if you have lets say 3 shocks down and 2 agendas. He might choose to access the agendas first and win the game, before the shocks trigger? Or the shocks go off? Or the two situations are different?

Please help me out here, I think it's a good question

All cards are accessed and completely resolved before the next is accesses 1 at a time.

So in the first case, he'd access Fetal AI, take the 2 damage, then steal it and win the game. He never even gets to see the next two cards.

Archives is slightly different. Upon getting to the server, all cards are flipped faceup and then the runner accesses all cards in any order he/she chooses.

In your example, all cards are flipped face up, and then then the runner chooses the order in which the cards are accessed. As soon as 7 points is reached, the game immediately ends.

Check the rulebook. Page 18: accessing multiple cards.

In short, you still access (and fully resolve the access) one card at a time.

This means, in your example, the first Fetal, if it doesn't kill him, will win him the game.

It also means if a card has a trash cost, you must decide to trash it or not BEFORE you look at the next card. This could be relevant, if for example, you pulled SanSan and Adonis but only have 6 creds. If you trash one, you'll not have the creds to trash the other, but you shouldn't have knowledge of the upcoming cards before you make that decision.

EDIT: Ninja'd

In your example, all cards are flipped face up, and then then the runner chooses the order in which the cards are accessed. As soon as 7 points is reached, the game immediately ends.

Wouldn't the Runner still be in the dark as to what each of the cards were prior to accessing them for resolution (i.e. they couldn't just pick the non-Snare to resolve first as looking at the card is the first part of access)?

In your example, all cards are flipped face up, and then then the runner chooses the order in which the cards are accessed. As soon as 7 points is reached, the game immediately ends.

Wouldn't the Runner still be in the dark as to what each of the cards were prior to accessing them for resolution (i.e. they couldn't just pick the non-Snare to resolve first as looking at the card is the first part of access)?

Nada. Page 18 of the rules (paraphrased):

1. Runner Flips all cards faceup and doesn't need to keep them in order.

2. If there are multiple cards, the mulitple cards rule kicks in.

3. Steal Agendas/Resolve other cards as you would for multiple card accesses.

IE. The runner flips all the cards over then rearranges them in what order they want before they access the individual cards.

This way they can avoid things like Shock or Fetal AI and get the other juicy agendas first.

P.S. Snare doesn't work from archives.

Yes, sorry.

For some reason I thought we were in R&D...

now, it should be mentioned, if you 6 points and have 1 card in hand, and you hit a Fetal, you do flatline before stealing it. But, if you have 2 cards and it's Jinteki PE, you go down to 0 cards from the initial hit, pay 2 and steal it, then the PE damage is irrelevant because the game has ended.

Here is the case I have in mind:

He is at 6 points

*runs Maker's eye to access 3 cards

He access Fetal, Fetal , Snare. How the flow goes?

He needs 1 of the Fetal's to win, but he access all 3 cards with triggers? Does he win before all the triggers go off? Or the triggering on access happens before he scores one of the Fetals?

Which is the top card? He accesses that one first. If it's Fetal AI, he wins. If it's Snare!, he loses.

The Archives answer has been correctly answered.

now, it should be mentioned, if you 6 points and have 1 card in hand, and you hit a Fetal, you do flatline before stealing it. But, if you have 2 cards and it's Jinteki PE, you go down to 0 cards from the initial hit, pay 2 and steal it, then the PE damage is irrelevant because the game has ended.

yes, that's like Jinteki 101 ...

In your example, all cards are flipped face up, and then then the runner chooses the order in which the cards are accessed. As soon as 7 points is reached, the game immediately ends.

Wouldn't the Runner still be in the dark as to what each of the cards were prior to accessing them for resolution (i.e. they couldn't just pick the non-Snare to resolve first as looking at the card is the first part of access)?

Nada. Page 18 of the rules (paraphrased):

1. Runner Flips all cards faceup and doesn't need to keep them in order.

2. If there are multiple cards, the mulitple cards rule kicks in.

3. Steal Agendas/Resolve other cards as you would for multiple card accesses.

IE. The runner flips all the cards over then rearranges them in what order they want before they access the individual cards.

This way they can avoid things like Shock or Fetal AI and get the other juicy agendas first.

P.S. Snare doesn't work from archives.

Is this true? Or?

Check the rulebook. Page 18: accessing multiple cards.

In short, you still access (and fully resolve the access) one card at a time.

This means, in your example, the first Fetal, if it doesn't kill him, will win him the game.

It also means if a card has a trash cost, you must decide to trash it or not BEFORE you look at the next card. This could be relevant, if for example, you pulled SanSan and Adonis but only have 6 creds. If you trash one, you'll not have the creds to trash the other, but you shouldn't have knowledge of the upcoming cards before you make that decision.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Because the two aren't the same ...

The first dude says I should "flip up" expose the 3 cards he is accessing with makers eye , where is the other dude says I should show/ expose him ( and resolve) 1 at a time?

Edit: I mean, in the first case , he looks to all 3 cards, before accessing them and accesses them in what order he wants ( similar to archives, although it's R&D) which makes Snare unable to hit, if another card bellow it is an Agenda and helps him win the game.

The second means, he will hit Snare first, because he sees ( and access) one at a time and after that go for the Fetal AI ...

The first case seems ******* unfair, so I doubt that's the case

Edit 2: or he is talking about Archives, not R&D?

now, it should be mentioned, if you 6 points and have 1 card in hand, and you hit a Fetal, you do flatline before stealing it. But, if you have 2 cards and it's Jinteki PE, you go down to 0 cards from the initial hit, pay 2 and steal it, then the PE damage is irrelevant because the game has ended.

yes, that's like Jinteki 101 ...

In your example, all cards are flipped face up, and then then the runner chooses the order in which the cards are accessed. As soon as 7 points is reached, the game immediately ends.

Wouldn't the Runner still be in the dark as to what each of the cards were prior to accessing them for resolution (i.e. they couldn't just pick the non-Snare to resolve first as looking at the card is the first part of access)?

Nada. Page 18 of the rules (paraphrased):

1. Runner Flips all cards faceup and doesn't need to keep them in order.

2. If there are multiple cards, the mulitple cards rule kicks in.

3. Steal Agendas/Resolve other cards as you would for multiple card accesses.

IE. The runner flips all the cards over then rearranges them in what order they want before they access the individual cards.

This way they can avoid things like Shock or Fetal AI and get the other juicy agendas first.

P.S. Snare doesn't work from archives.

Is this true? Or?

Check the rulebook. Page 18: accessing multiple cards.

In short, you still access (and fully resolve the access) one card at a time.

This means, in your example, the first Fetal, if it doesn't kill him, will win him the game.

It also means if a card has a trash cost, you must decide to trash it or not BEFORE you look at the next card. This could be relevant, if for example, you pulled SanSan and Adonis but only have 6 creds. If you trash one, you'll not have the creds to trash the other, but you shouldn't have knowledge of the upcoming cards before you make that decision.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Because the two aren't the same ...

The first dude says I should "flip up" expose the 3 cards he is accessing with makers eye , where is the other dude says I should show/ expose him ( and resolve) 1 at a time?

Edit: I mean, in the first case , he looks to all 3 cards, before accessing them and accesses them in what order he wants ( similar to archives, although it's R&D) which makes Snare unable to hit, if another card bellow it is an Agenda and helps him win the game.

The second means, he will hit Snare first, because he sees ( and access) one at a time and after that go for the Fetal AI ...

The first case seems ******* unfair, so I doubt that's the case

Edit 2: or he is talking about Archives, not R&D?

Archives gets all cards flipped before access, you choose order of access. R&D or HQ, you view and fully resolve each card one at a time (but they do not return to HQ or R&D until you are finished accessing all cards).

You can still choose the order, but you're choosing blind, so it's meaningless unless the Corp has used Precognition. The order of cards access from R&D must also be maintained, so if for some reason you chose to access card three first (perhaps the Corp used Precognition and you fear a Snare!) then it must go back into R&D underneath the other cards.

Ngunz was indeed talking about Archives. Read p.18 thoroughly, it should clear up any remaining questions.

Edited for spelling

okey , gatcha' , tnx

R&D or HQ, you view and fully resolve each card one at a time (but they do not return to HQ or R&D until you are finished accessing all cards).

You can still choose the order, but you're choosing blind, so it's meaningless unless the Corp has used Precognition. The order of cards access from R&D must also be maintained, so if for some reason you chose to access card three first (perhaps the Corp used Precognition and you fear a Snare!) then it must go back into R&D underneath the other cards.

You must access cards from R&D from the top down.

R&D or HQ, you view and fully resolve each card one at a time (but they do not return to HQ or R&D until you are finished accessing all cards).

You can still choose the order, but you're choosing blind, so it's meaningless unless the Corp has used Precognition. The order of cards access from R&D must also be maintained, so if for some reason you chose to access card three first (perhaps the Corp used Precognition and you fear a Snare!) then it must go back into R&D underneath the other cards.

You must access cards from R&D from the top down.

Are you sure? I remember a thread about it n BGG. The relevant rules text:

"When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one

at a time in any order he likes."

"When accessing multiple cards from R&D, the Runner must

draw them in order from the top of the deck, and must return

any cards not scored or trashed in reverse order, so as to

preserve their positions in R&D."

I believe the BGG concensus was that order must be maintained, but you can still access in any order after you draw them from the top. Obviously you can't look at them first. Don't know if it was ever officially asked of Lukas.

ugh, that will suck for Jinteki--a deep dig with Medium where you just look at the top 5 cards of R&D, steal all the agendas for the win, and then never have to deal with the Snare that was actually the top card?

ugh, that will suck for Jinteki--a deep dig with Medium where you just look at the top 5 cards of R&D, steal all the agendas for the win, and then never have to deal with the Snare that was actually the top card?

that's why it will never/ can't happen rules prevent it

ok, went and downloaded the PDF rulebook:

The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay

to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card. If the Runner

scores an agenda that gives him seven or more points, he

immediately wins the game, even if he would otherwise access

more cards.

ok, went and downloaded the PDF rulebook:

The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay

to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card. If the Runner

scores an agenda that gives him seven or more points, he

immediately wins the game, even if he would otherwise access

more cards.

Doesn't preclude you from choosing to access card number three, then card number one, then card number 2. Just means you fully resolve three first.

Lay all cards out on table, noting if you went left to right or right to left. Access and resolve in any order. Any remaining cards go back in reverse order.

I'm going to send this in to Lukas. Like I said, it's a narrow use (it's ONLY relevant after Precog currently) but I'd like to know.

it's extremely relevant if the top card is a Snare.

Woah, now, Dydra, I did say that the 'flipping all cards over' only applies to archives.

In any other server multiple accesses happen one at a time in the order they appear (or the order you choose in the case of remotes, but here you don't flip the cards over).

Feesh: This is very relevant if the Runner knows there is a Fetal AI on top (or any particular position) that they can't survive and he/she wants to dig below it for the win. It doesn't come up often, but this would have changed at least one game I can think of (Fetal AI with Braintrust beneath). Thanks for taking the initiative to ask.

Ok! Got that question answered. You must access all cards from R&D in order from top down, but you can access installed upgrades at any point between them.

Andrew,

Thanks for the question. You can choose the order of access in relation to the cards in R&D versus any upgrades in R&D, but you cannot choose to access the second or third card first, and then return to the top card. Hope that helps,

Slightly disappointing that you don't have the option to access the R&D cards freely, but it is probably the simplest manner in which R&D access can be done and gurantee that the cards are kept in the same order.

wouldn't be hard, but it's they way it's always been done and it's nice to have it be canon.

I'm actually glad; it keeps the game flowing and reducing chances for error. It's also the most intuitive way to do things.

That keeps the game running smoothly. Thanks for asking Feesh!