MarcoPulleaux said:

Set 12 has a lot more pressure on it despite what needs to be addressed. The future of the game, more or less, rests in the hands of Set 12. A few cards banned here or there wouldn't have done much to relieve the pressure on Set 12.

HolyDragonCloud said:

And I highly, highly disagree with you. I think that the cards take away from creative deckbuilding, eliminate the large attack strings over large amounts of turns theme FFG is pushing, and I have several tourney victories to back me up.

As much as I hate to see cards get banned,Feline spike has to go if this game wants to encourage attack strings. The one check is not enough to balance this card out.The one check is offset by the fact the spike player can run less bad checks because his one attack is enough to kill people. In the state of the game Steve said he said something had to be done about decks running 5 moves, This leads me to believe spike will be gone after the dust settles from set 12.

Imagine this, a player w/o spike is trying to piece together a string of 3 attacks. He plays an attack or two and is reversaled with spike. His option is either take all 24 damage or to try and block some of it. Regardless, this puts the active player in a position where he is screwed. If he blocks his combo has been interupted. He has been stunned two'd and if he doesnt kill the defending player the spike will be tag alonged to finish the deal on the oppponents turn. Even after seeing set 12 I feel this card has to go for the health and new direction of the game. Of course there are answers but while this card exists pure agro will never have a chance.

My intent is not to derail this post, just getting my problems with spike off my chest. I am super excited about set 12 and I know everyone else will be also once they see the set and get to play with it. UFS has a bright future ahead of it if the next few sets are ever half as good.

bloodocean said:

Feline Spike absolutely has to go, but I don't have the numbers in front of me to see how much that set sells with it unbanned. I'm guessing that's the only thing keeping it legal since it defines the current format.

Also, I like how instead of errata-ing Rejection, they just make a few cards a set to deal with it. Just change it to give your opponent the 3 vitality =P

Once again for the 10th time or so this has been posted on the forums Steve says NOTHING is going to happen to spike as there is no problem with it. I agree 100% with him.

To be honest guys sales has nothing to do with a card being banned . Look at set 8 cutting edge addes and revitalize were the 2 highest priced UR's that didnt stop Steve from banning them . Steve said he didnt have a problem with feline spike back in march he might have changed his mind who knows I havent asked him since. But I will be at POTM next friday and I will bring it up again if i remember while im there.

Scubadude said:

Just bring Yoga back. Problem solved, with "no" problems created in the process.

I don't think Feline Spike is the problem personally. I think the card is fine the way it is. I think Lord of the Makai is the problem, it makes momentum too quick and easy, thus making cards like Feline Spike shine even more.

The price of cards on the singles market should never be a factor on the banning of a card. I realize that many would love to see this card banned b/c they can't afford or even find the card this is not my reasoning.

My oppinion (and yes thats all it is) is that this card makes it to easy to only run a playset of one attack. While other agro decks will have to spam out their hand to throw attack strings, leaving them vulnerable, this attack does not have that problem. Agro decks will run 16+ 3 checks while control will run 4 1 checks and then have the option of running things like SoC and other good foundations with less desirable controls.

Well, like I said, it's also possible that there are a bunch of Tsabo's Webs in set 12 for Spike, the same way there are apparently going to be for Rejection. I might not think it's the *best* way to do things, but it does seem to be the way they like to go. I mean, imagine if they made something like this:

Action 4/4 +2M
R: After your opponent plays an attack with difficulty 6 or more, discard it from their card pool and they draw 2 cards.
-some other ability to keep it from being dead against some decks-

There isnt anything that screams "hey im here to stop spike!"

Cetonis said:

Wow that would be like a no cost power of the edge for attacks but I would love it none the less.

Obviously, the solution is simple.

Just make every card from every set legal. Then there's too many good cards to play, and people will stop complaining.

Or, hey! Stop making cards entirely!

Enough of the ban talk, for GOD's sake. It's very annoying. Pointing out that you think it could be an issue is one thing, but relentlessly flogging a dead horse is another. I've lost plenty of games to Spike and so forth, and it doesn't bother me. Just makes me want to get better as a player. Challenge level and all that. I understand that not everyone feels this way, but.

You're the designer. You can either ban something because people are going on and on (and on, AND ON) about it, and then have the players who spent X amount of money on it ***** and complain, or you can not ban it, make those players happy, and have everyone ELSE ***** and complain.

People don't seem to appreciate just how hard these people work to make us happy.

Then again, I'm just as bad...a hypocrite, even. How many times have I made this same point up there (^), to no effect? And yet here I am, doing it again. Sigh.

I have an answer for every single "problem" card in the meta game.

I wonder just how much butt kissing I can get you all to do before I reveal any of them :3

...I think I know your secret :3

FFTARoxorz05 said:

The set's been sold out for months. Like... gone. Done. Finished. There is no more back stock. FFG has made all the money off Realm of Midnight that they'll ever make.

my card store got like 2 boxes of the set quite randomly. If it hadn't been for a few people being away, it wouldn't have taken the 3 weeks it did for them to sell out. One box was instantly purchased and the other was slowly sold off.

It's not easy to come by anymore-that's certain. Nor will you see many people selling or trading their Spikes.

Solution?

Find other ways to win.

Unfortunately (and GOD I can't believe I'm about to speak this line), that's the way the cookie crumbles (Bruce Almighty gets you off that line quite fast.). Just have high hopes, like me. In my mind, something that makes use of Tsurane Kiri, Midnight Launcher, Punish the Weak, and some other good Evil attack (Probably Ichi) come to mind for what I'm going to try and accomplish. Of course, I'll put on my sad face when I stare down a Spike that hits me for as much as my string does and only requires 1 CC. =/.

As I said earlier, I think Set 12 needs a chance to flesh out before we all get on the Ban Train.

And SERIOUSLY folks, enough with the ban talk (seems like someone new is saying this every night, no?) I'm certain that James and Steve are quite well aware of what needs to be watched and considered.

MegaGeese said:

Care to try me?

On a different note, I need me some Rashotep cards. SOOO good.

Dunjohn said:

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! HRUYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

FFTARoxorz05 said:

we need yoga mastery so bad. there is so much commit it would just be turned sideways anyway lol.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to go that far... but just giving ways to deal with enhances to more symbols, and at less than 4 difficulty, would be nice. There's plenty of ways to limit things & justify a lower difficulty; cost the negation a little high, restrict it to only enhances printed on an attack or only enhances printed on a foundation, or even not negating the enhance but respond to it by committing copies of the foundation or reducing the attack's damage, etc.

Cetonis said:

You dont think if negation got easier and more spread that games would just get longer and longer?

Balance is good. I think (pre set 12) this game has plenty of defensive tools. We dont need more negation or cheaper negation IMO, and im a control player...

Edit: Reading is key. I read your whole paragraph and the only part that stuck is "giving ways to deal with enhances to moer symbals, and at less than 4 difficulty, would be nice"

Seeing that sentance out of context gives it different meaning. I agree than as far as "lesser" E negation, "negate an E played on a foundation" etc. Or maybe "R Commit: After your opponent plays an enhance that is not a keyword ability, negate that enhance"

I would argue that if Enchances weren't quite as tough to stop as they are right now, (No Memories, Soc, Silver Spoon, and that's about it) it would make the game less control-oriented, because relying on a specific one-shot powerful/multiple attack or a specific enhance-heavy loop would not be as attractive a strategy - which would mean attack strings that lack such single points of failure become better, and hence more attacking and faster games. We certainly can't have E negation to the point of Yoga Mastery - for goodness' sake never again - but some stuff here and there that make it tougher for the 3-7 attack decks to succeed in their narrow kill plans would be nice. Random nifty card idea for no reason #2:

Foundation 2/4
R Commit: Before the enhance step of your opponent's attack, they may only play a maximum of X enhances during the enhance step. X equals the total number of attacks in their discard pile and removed from game pile combined. <-- prevent cycling issues and such