Hi all. A nice gaming weekend gave me a lot of food for thought - aside from the fact our games will now forever be known as 'Fudge of the Vampire' because of my little niece

The players were pretty much united in that they wanted to keep the groups of PCs seperate, while sharing the same universe. That is, the EoE characters remain as Fringers and do not (as a group anyway) segue into the Alliance or the Jedi. Which is fine by me - it keeps them seperate, but offers some crossover potential, and ties in to my feeling that you shouldn't need a uniform or a glowstick to make waves in the SW universe.

But it got me thinking about where I want to lead our EoE game. Everyone is enjoying it, and I have enough personal, low-key stories to keep us amused for a while yet. But I still want to build towards something 'epic', while keeping the EoE feel and mood. That is, it should remain 'Fringe' and not GCW or Jedi.

I have long wanted to establish the Fringe as a major faction, albeit in the Outer or Mid Rim, and have been toying with the concept of someone uniting all these disparate groups under one (probably unstable) banner. Some kind of a 'Fringer War', with the players choosing a faction and being the crucial element that tips the scales, would really suit us.

So I started casting about for options, and thought I'd ask here. While I'm certainly happy to create from whole cloth, I have also been convinced that there is lots of usable stuff in the EU, if I'm prepared to be picky and flavour to taste.

It struck me that 'Shadows of the Empire' might be a good starting point, as the title ties in to EoE thematically, and I dimly recall it was a big deal at the time, with lots of information and tie-ins. (I think it was basically supposed to be as big as a new movie, without actually being a new movie, something I think they wanted Farce Unleashed to be but didn't quite make it...) I have the WEG book about it, and with plenty of changes, it could well work for the core of a suitably 'epic' EoE campaign.

I must admit though, I found the basic premise ('Xizor wants to kill Luke to discredit Vader!') kind of silly, and the ending ('Vader gets ticked off with Xizor and blows him up!') very anti-climatic.

So... maybe throw all that out, and have a Black Sun civil war? The players get involved by being hired by various sides, and as casualties mount, end up having to declare for their faction of choice, bumping off rivals or recruiting them. Then, maybe take the battle to the Hutts, and various pirate or corporate groups, eliminating them or gathering them all under the BS banner. And finally, this motley army must drive the Empire out of their territory, and must either fight the Alliance or negotiate terms.

This would leave the PCs as either leaders in their own right, or at the least, as highly-placed supporters of whoever wins. And even afterwards, possibly have other opportunities just trying to keep everything together. Guri would be a nice choice as patron, or maybe they could help Savan overthrow Xizor (I have a yen to make her a lot like Aria/Aleena from Mass Effect...)

Anyone else have any ideas or suggestions regarding BS, or any other group or idea that might make a suitably-epic high-level story for an EoE campaign? Preferably keeping AoE and F&D to a minimum?

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions...?

The second-last story arc of TCW season 5 might give you some ideas. Basically Darth Maul and his apprentice gather together all the major criminal elements (the Hutts, Black Sun, the Pikes) and combines their might to take over Mandalore, which is the lead system for 1500 neutral worlds. Needless to say, this doesn't go down well with Palpatine...

There are many issues with that story arc, not least of which are the short-cuts taken in the story to establish this criminal combine. But the basic theme could be used, and in an actual campaign could be give their requisite time: while the Empire is busy fighting the Rebels, the crime lords have a heyday, and perhaps see a chance to exercise their political will more overtly. Surely this will lead to a showdown...

Seems like you could probably take gangster movies/stories and adapt them pretty well. Be it a gang vs gang sort of thing (adapt Gangs of New York to be Hutts and/or Black Sun, operating in the Outer Rim or maybe even the underworld in one of the Core worlds like Corellia or Coruscant) or Gang vs Law (adapted from the Untouchables and the US prohibition era in general) where the PCs can either be smugglers running spice or CorSec/CSF agents trying to clamp down on the amount of illicit goods being run.

That sort of thing can be suitably epic because you have a lot of source material to consider and to pick and choose from, without making it GCW-focused or Force and Destiny related.

The second-last story arc of TCW season 5 might give you some ideas. Basically Darth Maul and his apprentice gather together all the major criminal elements (the Hutts, Black Sun, the Pikes) and combines their might to take over Mandalore, which is the lead system for 1500 neutral worlds. Needless to say, this doesn't go down well with Palpatine...

I had already started framing this in my mind until Whafrog beat me to it. Another instance of this that comes to mind is the last book of of the Thrawn trilogy with Karrde forming an alliance of smugglers to secretly undermine the empire.

Other than that, I would either focus on the major power houses of the fringe, or all of the minor players. Having the big guys on your side, or a lot of the small guys might sway those that are on the fence.

I'm running a pretty big campaign with 2 other GMs on RPOL (It has 18 players at the moment). We've added in a 'Faction' system and a unique Force system.

For Factions, we've created a game where players can join one of three Factions and rise through the ranks of the Factions. The GMs cooperate and plan over-arching campaigns with one-another - basically a way for players to take sides in the grinding politics in the Fringe. As players gain 'Favor', they grow in rank with the faction and can participate in more epic events, such as running events that have serious effects on the rest of the galaxy. We've got the Hutts, the Black Sun and CSA all vying for power and our goal is to have the players REALLY impact that struggle.

Obviously this isn't suitably for a 2-6 player campaign, but one thing you may want to do, is see what 'faction' the players would look to be in cahoots with, and let them RP growing through the ranks. Perhaps have them be part of Jabba's close enforcer group, tasked with raiding Imperial supply lanes, or stealing from Rebel bases.

Black Sun could deal with sneaking around Coruscant, like the Imperial palace for instance, trying to thrawt Imperial law. CSA and the Hutt Cartels both have standing armies, so contracts gone bad can lead to some EPIC battles on the fringes. Even a underworld sanction spring so-and-so from Kessel and having your players do the Kessel Run maybe be something totally epic.

I didn't mention in my previous post that I've also been thinking along Maelora's lines lately, about how to grow a fringe campaign to something "epic". At this point in both my campaigns, this isn't even on the radar for the players, and I'm glad: I'm not sure a galaxy-spanning impact is required for the players to have fun or feel like they made a change, or a name for themselves. However, for one of my campaigns, I have neferious plans that might grow to involve a regional take-down of the slave trade. Again for a foundation I refer to TCW, in this case the Zyggerian slaver arc from season 4, and Sidious' explicit need for the Zyggerian slave empire to be restored, to serve as the backbone of the Sith Empire. I think breaking or crippling that could be an entire campaign and at least send shock waves through the galaxy, certainly giving hero status to the players on any planet from Kashyyk to Ryloth.

The rest isn't necessary to read as it contributes nothing to Maelora's question, just explains how I got from the beginner box to the above idea, plus I had fun writing it.

See, while escaping from Mos Shutta, having left Trex "dead" in the street (the players were in too much of a hurry to double-tap), the party made their way to Ryloth. At this point I parted ways with (or severely mutated) the Long Arm of the Hutt and let the story evolve as the players wanted. After a few run-ins with Trex's associates (who were waiting for him and are sure that's his ship), followed by a barely avoided run-in with some Zyggerrians who want the mechanic for his talents, they were eventually contacted by an Imperial undercover agent. This guy is a total newb, the nephew of somebody in the Imperial spy network, who craved "real fieldwork"...or he thought he did. Now he's on Ryloth and in over his head. He dresses like a tourist, in a city with little tourism, and can't keep his fake moustache on straight. And, in true Imperial fashion, he's sick of dealing with all these "aliens". So when he approaches the players, he *thinks* he's approaching associates of Trex, and when the players see through this and play along, he expresses relief at finally being able to deal with humans... "And you too, of course," he says to Oskara. "It's just those damned lizards."

Long story short: he and Trex had a deal to deliver some old battle droids to Teemo, because Jabba is being uncooperative and needs to be taught a lesson. He has the droids on Ryloth, ready for delivery. There are two problems: first, that the droids are deep underground, only accessible by means of an ancient subway system that is officially no longer in use, but that smugglers pay to keep running (and the authorities out); and second, that battle droids are highly illegal on Ryloth, considering how Ryloth suffered under them during the Clone Wars.

The players have gone underground and taken a train to meet with the Imperial and give him payment (which was spice, which the players found on Trex's ship, but they no longer have, because they didn't know about this deal, and sold the spice during the last session...bwaaahahaha!), at which point a bandaged and very grumpy Trex-and-his-boys show up careening down the subway rails on a hover-truck. This is where we ended the session...cliffhanger!

I'm looking forward to the next session, which ideally will involve:

- the Imperial wondering why Trex is mad at his "associates"

- the players trying to get the Imperial on their side, about which the Imperial is conflicted because the deal was with Trex, but he's sick of lizards

- the Imperial unleashing, but losing control of, the battle droids, who start shooting everybody

- the players trying to flee on the train they arrived with. They've already discovered, through a Triumph, that making the train go more than 2/3rds its maximum speed will likely cause a short circuit. I'm sure they think this means "non-functional", but the result will be to turn off the navigation and make the car go faster...! I envision a high speed subway chase with a droideka and a car full of Trandoshan in full pursuit...

- at some point the players will have to ditch the train, probably because they're running out of track (I have mechanics for this). Ideally they will arrive at the location where their old friends, the Zyggerians, are putting the last of the Twi'leks into crates. At this point the players should be easy to capture, and if Trex wants to make a fuss with the Zyggerians he will be out gunned. However, he will probably laugh, snap a picture with his iPhone...er, datapad...and deliver it to Teemo, who will consider the characters "dealt with".

Good stuff here...

A suggestion... Give the players a reason to get involved. Vested interest if you will. In the campaign I am in, we "landed" on a GM made system. This system was terraformed by a Company that has gone to "great lengths" to hide this system from the Empire.

We had a Hutt ship arrive and we drove him away. Empire will be around at some point I am sure. We are doing "work" for the company getting the place "cleaned" up and helping with some detailed exploration.

While our knowledge of what is to come guides us some, we are in a position to fight off all sorts of groups coming to take our hard work away. We will have to deal with it all at some point, and have reason to do so. To much invested in this place to just hop on a ship and call it quits.

(Lots of detail left out to get to the point)

Thanks for all the replies. Some really good ideas here, especially whafrog's detailed campaign notes.

Lots I can use from this.

I might even bring Trex back - it was never really confirmed he was dead, and the PCs really do need their own enemies.

Epic in Star Wars? Way easy. I just let things roll myself and things turn out pretty epic.

In my game, the players gained possession of the orinium mine on Gavos from Bargos the Hutt at the conclusion of the "Debts to Pay" module included with the GM screen. The party Trader owns the mine, and the party members are all employed by him to use his ship and win credits to fund the mine and make it profitable.

But when the party Doctor went into the Politico talent tree, a more in-depth backstory was developed wherein it was discovered that she the princess of the Talik clan of Twi'leks. To mesh with that, I developed a further plotline involving the Lethan clan of Twi'leks, who have been empowered by Palpatine himself to hunt down undesirable renegade Twi'leks. Most of the clan now lives on Gavos, and have begun construction of a permanent colony.

Since then the party has not only been adventuring to pay off their own Obligations, but also growing their colony and adding to its defenses with things like atmosphere curtains, shield generators, and even security forces complete with walkers and starfighters. Different characters have added different elements to the colony. For instance, the Rodian Bounty Hunter's just so happens to be the ousted president of an island-nation on Rodia; refugees from this nation have recently moved in, as have a number friends of the party's Bothan Smuggler who rubbed one crime lord or another the wrong way in nearby Hutt Space. Furthermore, as different characters work off their Obligations, I add new ones related to the mine/colony (the Trader handles difficult clients, the Bounty Hunter is charge of security, the Mechanic keeps everything working, etc).

With all of this going on in the backdrop of a mine that produces an incredibly rare ore used in starfighter engines , I haven't found it difficult to include "epic" adventures that really work into the fabric of the Star Wars universe without disrupting anything that's already established. Mass battles, Force-powered duels, and everything in between are all fair game. The players in my game are major players in Hutt Space, so much so that the Empire hesitates to disrupt what they have going. Mass battles, major political intrigue, and even a metaplot involving droid liberation have all changed the fabric of my group's SW universe.

One of the keys to exciting space fantasy is to play up all of your favorite themes at their loudest possible volume every now and then. Whether it's Sith or starfighters or bounty hunters or crazy alien monsters that catches your fancy most about Star Wars, don't be afraid to use those elements with enthusiasm, particularly if you're the GM. It's contagious!