There seems to be a staggering amount of odd design choices present in the weapon list. From oddly high or low damage to even odder things like range. I am going to point of some things I consider off. While providing what I think are fair changes to make them more viable and balanced. Also I invite you to please join me in discussing the streamlining and balancing of these and other entries in the weapons list.

First up we have the Whip with a Three meter range and 1d10+1 primative 7 this is the most glaring. Its got better damage than a club, can attack opponents that aren't adjacent making things like whirlwind attack hilarious with a mono one (like in Shadowrun!). Now I must admit I like seeing the whip get some love in a system. However getting your skull bashed in with a mace should perhaps be somehow more lethal than minor lacerations from a primitive whip. Does it really need +1 damage? When mono it just oozes cool while trumping almost any other mono weapon combo. I suggest primitive 6 and 1D10 to represent it being barbed and lethal but by no means amazing. Flexible at range is just an amazing combo now imagine a Latheblade whip.

Whip 3m range 1d10 Primative 6

The titular hand weapon, the Warhammer. Now why exactly is this two handed? If its a great weapon hammer than that entry covers those as well as two handed swords, axes, halberds and such. go to 1 handed, 1d10+1 and unbalanced without primitive to make this a contender to using swords.

Warhammer 1d10+1 unbalanced

Electro flails, description says it has range but unlike a whip it lacks it statwise. Does less damage than the maul. Uses two hands and has the double edged rule of flexible. On top of that its rare above a shock mauls scarce. How do we fix this one? Its still shocking maybe give it 1-2 meter range and/or go one handed to make it a short whip? I understand not every weapon should be totally viable but there should be some reason even the peon enemies pick up a club over fashioning crude whips.

Electro Flail 2m range 1d10+2 shocking flexible

Knives have always bothered me. In a game where combat can become lethal extremely quickly the knife is a joke. At 1d5 even with strength bonus you can wear a sweater and be safe from this. I think the combat knife should make a return as the actual weapon rather than this glorified improvised weapon. Perhaps keep knife as the tool version while having the 1d5+2/3 version as the scary stabbing weapon. It does less damage than a sword or whip owing to its small size but its wide blades damage is much more consistent.

as an added weapon or amended, Combat Knife: 3m range (thrown) combat knife 1d5+2 or +3 needs testing.

Omnissian axe. Now this has a bunch of problems. Its two handed right off limiting combat options. However unlike other two handed big weapons its damage is extremely low. This is serrated halberd with a power field and dozens of esoteric tools. However it feels like the power weapon version of the Staff. Less damage but one more pen than a power sword combined with unbalanced and extremely hard to acquire. So where do we start with so many issues? First lets bump the damage. 2d10 with the same penetration puts it almost but not quite on par with the easier to acquire powerfist which is one handed and gets double strength. And the Eviserator which has tearing and amazing penetration.

Omissian axe: Two handed 2d10 Pen 6 unbalanced

Fire Bomb, saw you fixed these in the update. Thank you! I am so glad these stopped being the super weapons they were in many DH games I played. They always ended up with house rules, some fair and some horribly dickish to punish players who had abused them.

Spear this weapon screams to have a range as its whole point of being is standing farther away and stabbing something. Usually behind someone with a shield and heavy armor. Especially so since it uses up both hands. The hunting lance also needs roughly 2 meter range.

Spear: Two handed 2m range 1d10 primitive 8* basic weapons with close combat attachments lose the 2m melee range. Else maybe they could count as 2 handed combat knives?

This is kind of an odd one but the Sniper Rifle and Long Las. Now these are about perfect. Love the stats on these. However its when they get modded is where it gets goofy. I toss a pistol grip on and now I have a 75-100 meter accurate with +2d10 bonus damage pistol. While that works with las and autoguns gimping their range into pistol time. These still have awesome range while dropping extra damage letting the wielder also use a melee weapon, pistol or dare I say another basic weapon, perhaps another sniper type. I think the fix for this is a little tougher. As a really jacked up character with high strength should be able to do this owing to bionics, mutation or just being a space marine. As such I suggest a new weapon quality called Long.

Long: This basic weapon is too unwieldly to fire one handed without bulging biceps or a strength bonus of 5(6?) or higher. However close combat attachments to this weapon count as a full spear with 2 meter range (las locks too!).

Last we have Shotguns. I have mentioned this before but the new change messed with the stats of these a fair bit. We have 3 shotguns still but they are odd. The single shotgun somehow has 8 rounds of ammo and 1d10+4 damage but the old pump now has more ammo 12 and a lackluster 1d10+3 damage. Combat shotguns hold an absurd amount while having a burst fire to boot. My idea is they all do the same damage but the mechanics and ammo differ. The biggest is the double shotgun returns and has a double barrel semi auto burst. Representing pulling both triggers into one or two targets. The biggest idea being putting proven on a non heavy weapon.

Double (formerly single) Shotgun S/*2*/- 1d10+4 scatter reliable 2 ammo full reload.

Pump Shotgun S/-/- 1d10+4 scatter, 8 ammo, 2 full reload Proven 3 or 4 to represent why its still in use after some 38,000 or so years and is still relied on. Also to make it a decent choice over semi auto 2 & 3 on the other shotguns.

Combat shotgun S/3/- 1d10+4 scatter 12 ammo 1 full reload.

I think these changes bring more options to the table when it comes to selecting a weapon and play style as well as having less weapons be just quirky filler or poor choices.

I'm really surprised you managed to get their/there right but apparently think then and than are interchangeable.

One thing I'm going to point out is that the combat system isn't really built with melee weapons with range in mind. If you attack someone at 2m with a whip, are one or both of you engaged in melee? If you're in melee and they're not, they're at point blank range and that's a bad place for Mr. Whip-wielder to be. If they are engaged in melee, they still have to move in order to get into attack range with a normal weapon, and moving in melee is opens up a whole can of worms. Contrast this to a system like D&D 4E where weapon ranges are integral to the system, it handles it a lot better.

Personally, I'd rather see ranged melee weapons removed because it's going to take a lot to work them into the system.

Maybe ranged melee weapons should get a trait, like long (X):

> they can be used like a ranged weapon with a standard range of X (no range modifiers are used at all)

> they can go into melee and then get +10 against all who have a melee weapon with less than X length

I think the simplest option is to consider engaged in melee still being next to the opponent. Weapons that have reach can merely attack at range as a bonus. They do not engage and thus do not force attacks if you move without using the disengage action. Perhaps whirlwind attack should still be limited to engaged targets and not those in reach.

Personally I'd toss the pistolgrip on the rubbish heap, but that might just be me.

EDIT: 6 likes so far. Probably not just me then.

Saw some of the melee tweaks were in Beta 5. Thanks for listening! I do hope that last bit about the shotguns is reconsidered.

As they are one of the few weapons whose niche needs to be more refined.

As a short range weapon they excel at point blank with limited ammo. with the most variety to use special ammo. It bears repeating that the new rules are awkward. Especially as shotguns are iconic arbites weapons. While my ideas aren't perfect. They do represent shotguns as deadly close quarters weapons.

As I suggested the standard pump shotguns proven (3). Showcases that it is a tried and true weapon. While making the combat shotgun not the be all end all three round semi auto machine. The double barrel is classic and useful with its unique semi auto 2 as it empties both barrels.

Whether my ideas make the cut or not. Something needs to change with them as they are oddly ruled. Especially the pump shotgun only doing 1d10+3. For being mostly single shot weapons they have a hard time competing with the sniper rifle. Which at point blank is getting 1d10+4 pen 3 and gets a few degrees of success with the +30 point blank and +10 aim to hit another +2d10 damage. Which is a serious contender to the combat shotguns close up burst. Especially as the sniper rifle can do it at any range.

I like the Scatter rule for the bonus to hit and extra PB damage. Its better then the old scatter multiple hits which were wacky. Though maybe it doesn't fully convey the close quarters specialist weapon niche well enough. I don't think Scatter needs a rewrite but maybe the shotguns need some extra rules like Proven (3) and Vengeful (9). To really do them justice.

I still maintain that shotguns would be best served dealing 2d10 to better represent the effects of being hit full-on with one versus only taking a few pellets of shot. In turn, I think frag grenades should be given tearing in order to make them more dangerous (I've had too many frags dropped at people's feet that then do less than 10 damage with no AP.

I still maintain that shotguns would be best served dealing 2d10 to better represent the effects of being hit full-on with one versus only taking a few pellets of shot. In turn, I think frag grenades should be given tearing in order to make them more dangerous (I've had too many frags dropped at people's feet that then do less than 10 damage with no AP.

Cyberpunk 2020 had shotgun damge depend on rangeband.

Basically, they were exceedingly nasty close up but at any significant range the effect droped far below that of actual bullets.

I still maintain that shotguns would be best served dealing 2d10 to better represent the effects of being hit full-on with one versus only taking a few pellets of shot. In turn, I think frag grenades should be given tearing in order to make them more dangerous (I've had too many frags dropped at people's feet that then do less than 10 damage with no AP.

I agree with this. I had a player in my group that was an Arbite with high TB and carapace armour that would dive on grenades to save other PCs. More often than not, the grenade did very little damage to him.