One common modification was a 360 arc but that seems excessive so we decided on just a rear arc for vision purposes. Sensor jammer + stealth/ptl/both seems like a recipe for mostly impossible to kill ships.
Lets Talk A-Wings
How should a 360° arc even be possible without a turreted weapon like on the YT-1300??
Yeah, a Sensor Jammer would make them hard to kill - but also expensive, while still low on firepower.
Hence Green 19 + Sensor Jammer 4 + Stealth 3 = 26 points; meaning you can't go with 4 of these and you are still only at 2 firepower each.
I seem to remember that the guns could be raised or depressed something like thirty degrees, allowing the fighter to continue attacking even after it had started to pull out of its attack run. Some were modified to be able to rotate to fire directly to the rear, but they rotated vertically, not transversely.
Been playing with A-wings and I simply love them. There's something really satisfying using one with PTL, and with that 3 agility and an evade token they seem to last a lot longer than an X-wing.
Been playing with A-wings and I simply love them. There's something really satisfying using one with PTL, and with that 3 agility and an evade token they seem to last a lot longer than an X-wing.
I played in a tourney today with 2. It's odd to think of an A-wing as a tank, but with PTL you can shrug off a lot of firepower. They were great in almost all phases in the game. In the opening you disrupt and take as much fire as you can so you stack Focus and Evade. In the middle stage you are trying to make firepower stick and make it to the end stage so start sticking on Evade and Target Lock. In the final stages the ability to target lock, focus and/or boost into range one makes them killer. Not great on their own but a contemporary in a full list they really work well.
Edited by JansonI have been thinking about the points cost of these ships. They don't have a particularly good tournament record, so I have been trying to determine if they are simply point costed as being too expensive.
If you add up all the ship upgrades as if you were buying them all for a TIE, then it would cost around 25:
- +1 shield (4 points)
- +1 shield, -1 hull (+1 points)
- boost (4 points)
- targeting computer (2 points)
- Missile slot (1 point?)
- better maneuverability, loss of barrel roll (+1 point?)
Obviously upgrades are significantly more expensive than built in cost, so that breakdown is pointless. A better way is to, again, compare it to a TIE Fighter with 2 attack and 3 defense and first adjust for the difference in hull/shields. The A-wing has 4 hull/shields vs 3 on the TIE, so the cost should go as:
12*(4/3)^0.5 = 13.86.
Lanchester's Law isn't exact for a small number of discrete ships, as it's a continuous time differential equation. When the number of forces is small enough that dx/dt can't be approximated as piecewise, then the force with more elite units tend to do slightly better than the square root law. So, non techie summary, that 13.8 number easily gets rounded up to 14.
Then you need to add in:
- one hull is replaced by a shield
- boost and better maneuverability, loss of barrel roll
- target lock and missile slot
That's probably about 2.5 - 3 points right there. 2 points sounds too low, which is what it would have to be to get the ship costed at 16. So, as much as A-wings get a bad rep for only having 2 attack, I think FFG got the points correct, but you have to take advantage of their maneuverability to get back their point cost.
This is where Push the Limit comes in. It makes for some interesting comparisons:
- 22 point Green Squadron Pilot at 2/3/2/2 PS3 with PtL vs Rookie X-Wing 3/2/3/2 at 21 points
- 29 point Tycho at 2/3/2/2 PS8 with PtL vs. Wedge 3/2/3/2 PS9 at 29 points
The only change I would make would be to Arvel. I would give him an EPT, and I would change his ability to the following:
" You may declare an enemy ship inside your firing arc that you are touching as the target of your attack. If Arvel's ship overlaps another ship after Arvel performs a maneuver, Arvel does not lose his action. "
Edit: I would also strongly consider dropping Tycho's cost by 1 point.
Edited by MajorJugglerThats exactly what I think about the A-Wings. Thanks for this analysis.
What do you think about a common PS4 Pilot with System Upgrade slot and EPT for 20 points? As a new Pilot card for a 'Rebel Aces' Pack?
I posted this in another thread but the main point was that I think the A-wing's maneuverability make's its 2 lasers more effective than what 2 lasers normally amount to because of how maneuverable a platform they're on in an A-wing -- as opposed to a Y-wing.
As for the rear firing arc, as much as we'd like lore to be part of the game, remember that simple productivity issues are a concern as well. I doubt there will be a rear firing arc for the simple reason that it would require printing and distributing new base templates. No way to do it fairly. Even a mailing campaign for anybody who asked would have logistical issues. Most people throw out proof of purchase cards so that would cause an uproar if they were required. And simple print to play solutions would feel cheap to a community serious enough about the game to desire a correction in the first place.
A title card adding systems at low or no cost is a nice compromise. But I'm fairly convinced that would also entail more systems upgrades to choose from, something FFG likely has planned anyway, designed with the A-wing in mind. Here a Rebel version of Imperial Aces makes sense. This may very well be the end of this particular issue and not a bad one either. It sets an exciting precedent as well.
Sci-Fi or not, I have a hard time imagining a pilot accurately firing from a moving ship while also moving his lasers in order to hit a moving target. I get that it's in the lore but the difficulty must've been insane. How many kills were scored that way? So another solution might be a title card similar to Ten Numb's ability ( When attacking, 1 of your critical results cannot be canceled by defense die ). For the A-wing MkII just soften it to "When attacking, 1 of your hit results cannot be canceled by defense die." You keep the 2 dice but they're more potent without adding a 3rd. It's handy but by no means guaranteed.
Ship based abilities would be a new mechanic and a force to be reckoned with to be sure. Combing them with the inevitable unique pilot abilities would combine for something powerful as well. But, especially for ships with specific roles and as the game tries to expand without duplicating stats, such an approach might very well be viable. Pricing could also make it balanced as well since the title card would be optional and restrict points otherwise spent -- just like the added points on a unique pilot with an ability vs. the generic version of the same ship.
The only change I would make would be to Arvel. I would give him an EPT, and I would change his ability to the following:
" You may declare an enemy ship inside your firing arc that you are touching as the target of your attack. If Arvel's ship overlaps another ship after Arvel performs a maneuver, Arvel does not lose his action. "
How about the option of turning his ship into a homing missile when he makes contact.
You will first have to get a target lock on the target and it is still silly(read dumb) to try and blow up on the first chance you have when you are at full health.
How about if Arvel, immediately after he lost his last hull point, he may execute a boost action. If he manage to overlap an enemy ship, this counts like a Concussion Missile hit. Afterwards remove Arvel from game, and the enemy ship too, if Arvel managed to destroy it. ^^
This would cover his performance like seen in the movie
That's... actually a really cool suggestion, Starkiller. It also makes planning with Arvel that much more important, and brings him back onto the table, given how much people don't seem to want to use him (myself included).
The side effect would be: Don't shoot at Arvel if he is at boost range and pointing at you ^^
On the other hand he may try to ram targets with APL if he has only 1 hull left.
See that's kind-of cool too, because it would mean that Arvel would get in another attack (probably) and would still be a viable fighter for at least another turn.
That Arvel idea is great. I also love the idea of back facing arc. It allows the awing to do what it does best: hit n run tactics. It adds more attacks in the game for an offensively weak ship.
Tycho - Stress really doesn't matter w/ Tyco. His signature move is a 5 K turn, followed by a push the limits focus and target lock to launch a missile while being behind enemy ships. I find, by the end of a game with Tycho, I've got a stack of stress on him, but otherwise he performs the same as a higher pilot skill Green.
can't he not do K turns if he has stress even with his ability?
unrelated but is there a way to beat fel with PtL when he focuses and evades for defense while you're flying an a-wing? all he needs when its not shooting a missile is a focus or evade and then he spends the focus and the evade and you've missed
Edited by Ihavebadluck
Tycho - Stress really doesn't matter w/ Tyco. His signature move is a 5 K turn, followed by a push the limits focus and target lock to launch a missile while being behind enemy ships. I find, by the end of a game with Tycho, I've got a stack of stress on him, but otherwise he performs the same as a higher pilot skill Green.
can't he not do K turns if he has stress even with his ability?
unrelated but is there a way to beat fel with PtL when he focuses and evades for defense while you're flying an a-wing? all he needs when its not shooting a missile is a focus or evade and then he spends the focus and the evade and you've missed
Only solution that comes to mind is sacrificing a chicken to the Dice God...That might help you get enough hits before he does. That's why I always carry a chicken and a butcher knife when I go to play.
Edited by Red Castle
unrelated but is there a way to beat fel with PtL when he focuses and evades for defense while you're flying an a-wing? all he needs when its not shooting a missile is a focus or evade and then he spends the focus and the evade and you've missed
PtL Homing missile really does the trick. You'll get 4 hits more often than not if you PtL for Target lock and focus, and Fel can't use his evade token. If you roll up 4 hits, Fel needs 2 evades / focus on 3 green dice - if he fails (and those green dice can be fickle) Fel is gone with that 1 shot.
When you have a Missile packing A-Wing, you start off the game dealing more damage than an X-Wing. Then, as the game progresses, the X-Wing will gain on expected damage output, but not very quickly as Target Lock + Focus from the A-Wing is almost as effective as a X-Wing with either focus or target lock. That burst damage early makes a huge difference vs those 3 hull imperial ships.
Tycho - Stress really doesn't matter w/ Tyco. His signature move is a 5 K turn, followed by a push the limits focus and target lock to launch a missile while being behind enemy ships. I find, by the end of a game with Tycho, I've got a stack of stress on him, but otherwise he performs the same as a higher pilot skill Green.
can't he not do K turns if he has stress even with his ability?
unrelated but is there a way to beat fel with PtL when he focuses and evades for defense while you're flying an a-wing? all he needs when its not shooting a missile is a focus or evade and then he spends the focus and the evade and you've missed
He can't but he won't have stress the first round most times and with his dial he'll often shed all or most of it just as a result of not doing anything too intensive.
Just stay on his six at range one, three dice will eventually get through and if he's trying to ptl every round he's restricted in his movements, not much since you know, interceptor, but an A-wing can easily keep pace.
I've bee liking Awings a lot more recently. I try to fit one in my rebel lists just for the options it gains me.
For Arvel we like this "title card"
Green leader, unique, named pilots only, 0pts: when you choose a boost action and it would overlap you may choose to overlap and you may target any ship your are in contact with normally.
Only useable on Tycho and Arvel so far, only really useful for Arvel. Makes him very valuable as a blocker.