The Cygnus Spaceworks Alpha-class Xg-1 Star Wing, commonly referred to as the

Assault Gunboat . It was one of the Galactic Empire's first general-deployment starfighters to be equipped with deflector shields and a hyperdrive.

We all await the TIE Defender sooner or later. But before the Defender is released, the Avenger should be released. And it would make sense to release the Gunboat even before the Avenger.

So what role would the Gunboat fit in? Its the Imperial B-Wing I'd say.

With a length of 10 m it fits on a small base, its a bit sluggish to fly with and it has the cannon upgrade slot. Furthermore it has a beam weapon: the tractor beam. So either there will be a new slot type 'Beam Weapon Upgrade' or the Tractor beam will be a System Upgrade. In this case the Gunboat will get a System Upgrade slot, just like the B-Wing. I'll go for the Beam Weapon upgrade, since this would make the Gunboat unique until more ships with a beam slot arrive.

Lets start with the stats: 2 Laser cannons, usual for the Empire = Attack 2

Now without looking at Wookiepedia for stats from computer games, my stomach tells me its 2 in defence, the hull and shields are equal, so:

2-2-4-4

The dial is TIE Bomberish - maybe a bit slower.

Actions: TL, Focus

Upgrades: cannon, missile, missile, beam weapon

So, any ideas concerning the values so far and/or the point costs?

Sidenote on beam weapons:

There was the Tractor Beam, the Jamming Beam and the Decoy Beam.

Tractor Beam: A streaming magnetic energy band which stops the target from exceeding your current speed. In the latter half of TIE Fighter, and throughout X-Wing Alliance, tractor beam strength was increased so that they also pulled the target towards your ship.

Decoy Beam: When activated, your ship will not appear on enemy radar, and thus cannot be targeted. This beam weapon emits a general signal, so it doesnt need to be aimed at craft in order to work.

Jamming Beam: A concentrated energy signature that can stop the targeted vessel from using energy weapons. Large vessels may need to be hit by multiple jamming beams at once in order to cease weapons function.

The Tractor Beam could be used to decrease the defence value of the target ship (kind of Wedge's ability) This is discussed already in different topics.

The Decoy Beam could be used to prevent target locks on the own ship

The Jamming Beam could be used to decrease the firepower of the target ship

So its worthwhile to give the beam weapons an own upgrade slot, since we have more then just the tractor beam.

I would think defense 1, like the B-Wing or Y-Wing. I think it is less evasive than the tie bomber.

Sidenote on beam weapons:

There was the Tractor Beam, the Jamming Beam and the Decoy Beam.

Tractor Beam: A streaming magnetic energy band which stops the target from exceeding your current speed. In the latter half of TIE Fighter, and throughout X-Wing Alliance, tractor beam strength was increased so that they also pulled the target towards your ship.

Decoy Beam: When activated, your ship will not appear on enemy radar, and thus cannot be targeted. This beam weapon emits a general signal, so it doesnt need to be aimed at craft in order to work.

Jamming Beam: A concentrated energy signature that can stop the targeted vessel from using energy weapons. Large vessels may need to be hit by multiple jamming beams at once in order to cease weapons function.

The Tractor Beam could be used to decrease the defence value of the target ship (kind of Wedge's ability) This is discussed already in different topics.

The Decoy Beam could be used to prevent target locks on the own ship

The Jamming Beam could be used to decrease the firepower of the target ship

So its worthwhile to give the beam weapons an own upgrade slot, since we have more then just the tractor beam.

I know that these beam weapons come from the various SW computer games and are thus part of the generally acceptable SW lore, but some of them don't fit very neatly into the X-wing Miniatures Game. Heck, some don't even make sense, ie. "Decoy Beam". The description says it emits a "general signal" and that it "doesn't need to be aimed to work". That is not a beam , that is a broadcast signal. Lasers are beams. Blasters are (possibly/probably) beams. As described, the "Decoy Beam" is actually a Jammer of sorts. The "Jammer Beam" makes even less sense. I know, I know... don't go picking threads that "don't make sense" or the entire Star Wars universe will unravel! Anyway, how would this electronic miracle beam only affect weapons? What, electronically speaking, is so different from a beam weapon and its fire control system? To me, this one seems very much a "game mechanic" of that particular SW computer game and is rather silly.

Back to X-wing game mechanics. Not everything in the SW computer games or in the various SW movies, has been translated into the X-wing game exactly as it was in the source material. Example: 4 Laser cannons are not necessarily twice as powerful as 2 Laser Cannons, etc... There is a sliding scale of relative values and effects, rather than absolute values. Example 2: the Ion Cannon- in the movies, the Ion Cannon was able to disable not only a ship's drives, but also its weapons and navigational systems (see SW V:ESB, escape from Hoth scene), effectively every electronic system. FFG's version of the Ion Cannon, however, only affects drives (movement). Why? I don't know; probably to prevent it from being too powerful in the game or to keep it simple in game terms.

So, lets look for FFGs nearest eguivalents to the systems under discussion:

1. Tractor Beam- much discussion elsewhere on this topic on this forum. My version of this is pretty simple and I planned it as a System Upgrade card (because those already exist in the game) but I do like your idea of a Beam Weapon card. I think either one would work. I'm gonna pass on discussion of actual rules, however, but I think you are on the right track.

2. Decoy Beam- whatever you call it, it is a "jammer" and we already have that in the game, in fact we have two possible analogs: Stealth Device (Modification) and Sensor Jammer (System Upgrade). Neither one is the way I would have approached the subject but FFG made their decisions for a reason (I assume). Do either of these reasonably convey the effect you are looking for?

3. Jamming Beam- not really a fan of this one but, lets look at it. To me, it seems a little bit like the Ion Cannon (game function-wise) but it affects Attack values rather than movement. Maybe there is a Critical Hit card that mimics this effect (reducing primary weapon value) that we can base our new gadget around.

I think that you have some great ideas but they need work (I know, that's why we're having this discussion) and you need to step away from the video games a bit and think about it from the established canon of this game. Keep it simple and look for equivalents and similarities to what you want in the existing rules. I speak from experience here.

Lastly, what is your goal? Are you writing these rules for your own fun and enjoyment or are you writing these rules as "suggestions" to FFG for rules you'd like to see in the official rules. Very different, these two. If writing for yourself, do what you want, what seems reasonable. You bought the game, it is yours... have fun with it.

Chris

When I was flying them I was always thinking of them as something between an X-Wing and a Y-Wing leaning a lot more towards the Y-Wing. There were no where near as maneuverable as a TIE Fighter and I don't remember them having all that much firepower (certainly nothing that would merit a canon upgrade slot) although they did carry a selection of expendables.

As for all of these "beam weapons" people seem to remember from the X-Wing games I can say the only one I really liked was the Decoy/Stealth as I could use it to shake missile locks. In this game that is your Stealth Device, Sensor Jammer, or one of the EP talent. Most of the time I just liked having a beam weapon installed on my ship so I didn't need to put any power into it and could instead divert it to weapons and sometimes shields allowing me to keep those charging without the "normal" cost associated with doing so.

My take is you could write them up like a Y-Wing (make it 4/4 instead of 5/3 if you like) and give them a couple different missile/torpedo slots and possibly a systems upgrade.

Based on the Wookiepedia page that I just modified myself I think it should be:

PS: 4

Att: 5

Ev: 2

H: 8

Sh: 4

Using the tie fighter dial and and and and...

cost: 22 {insert lots of sarcasm here}

In actuality I like 2/2/4/4 with 2 each missile and Torpeado and the systems upgrade. Feels like a slower craft so maybe use a tie bomber dial or Firespray dial. Still should cost around 22. What about actions? TL and Focus only?

*Edited- sarcasm added

Not sure where the "I think it should be" comes in but 5/2/8/4 for 22 points is a bit absurd.

A 2/2/4/4 with PL 2 for 22 points seems reasonable depending a little on the dial. It's Y-Wing cost plus an improved Stealth Device that doesn't fall off after one hit. Alternatively it can be seen as T/B cost with couple Shield upgrades thrown on but then a discount applied for losing Barrel Roll. While we know that "filling up" a ship with ordnance is risky I don't know if I'd give it two missile and two torpedo slots although I'm not opposed to giving two or three slots to work with. When it comes to actions Focus and TL should be the extent of things. Unlike the Y-Wing however the higher level pilots should be given the chance to pick up EP upgrades.

I would say

2/1/4/4

Actions: Target Lock, Focus

Upgrades, Missiles, Torpedoes, System

The Tractor Beam and that stuff could be a system upgrade. It is defiantly not as maneuverable as a TIE Bomber. I don't see any reason why it would have a cannon upgrade.

It would of course be very similar to the TIE Bomber, but be a little slower and less maneuverable, instead it would have shields.

I'm not 100% sold on the System I really just put it on to further differentiate it from the TIE Bomber.

We develop the Gunboat for FFG, of course

Ok, 1 defence seems fair - this even would make the boat cheaper.

No System Upgrade on this one, we'll use the Beam Upgrade slot.

so we are at 2-1-4-4 for the stats.

I intended to develop the ship first, but since we are already in the beam weapon discussion:

I dont see the beam weapons really as 'weapons' with wich you can destroy something. So its more kind of a different System Upgrade. Think of it like System Upgrades affect your own ship, while Beam Weapons affect enemy ships.

And for the logic: ... oh well common ... Vader is destroying his own ship in this game ... most illogical.

Ok, lets try to find some rules for the beams:

Start with the Decoy:

It says it prevents enemy target system to operate with your ship ... so it's somewhere between a jammer and a stealth ... I would use this as a passive effect or an active effect while a single ship is targetted.

Possible passive effect: Enemy ship has to roll a dice in order to target lock your ship. on a hit or crit, he was successful.

Possible active effect: Target ship can't use the Target Lock action.

The Tractor Beam and that stuff could be a system upgrade. It is defiantly not as maneuverable as a TIE Bomber. I don't see any reason why it would have a cannon upgrade.

Of course it has a cannon upgrade. And of course its a beam upgrade slot. I don't just want to have a smaller copy of the shuttle

I like the idea of the Beam Weapon as being a separate type of upgrade slot, but it's tricky to make all those beams then translate into the game well.

2/1/4/4 looks right. It has 100 SBD shieds, so 4 shields is a no brainer. Giving it 4 hull makes it equivalent to the Y-wing and B-Wing for total health, along with the 1 defense dice. I would probably say give it the Y-Wing dial.

I'm torn on the Cannon upgrade slot. It should be able to use the Ion cannon, for sure. On the other hand, no other 2 attack ship has the cannon slot, which would make the HLC almost a no brainer for this ship, to augment its 2 attack dice.

I have also been thinking about Rockets, but that's probably a different discussion and should get its own thread.

It is very comparable to the Y-wing, so I think we would be looking at:

19 points at PS2

2 attack

1 defense

4 hull

4 shields

Missile Slot x2

Beam Weapon slot

Cannon Slot

Y-Wing dial

So basically, it's a Y-wing with the following differences:

1. 1 hull converted into 1 shield
2. 2x Torpedo slots replaced by 2x Missile slots
3. Turret slot replaced by Cannon slot
4. Add the Beam Weapon slot
5. +1 cost

With a HLC equipped, you are looking at a minimum of 26 points. Or we could decide that we need to ditch the Cannon slot completely and make it 18 points at PS2, which means it really needs missiles + possibly beam weapon to be useful. Without a cannon slot I really don't see it getting used much. Bombers are cheaper missile platforms.

Still thinking about this one.

Basically thats what I thought!

If this is the B-Wing of the Empire you go like:

ps2 B-Wing for 22 points

- 4 points for -1 attack

+ 1 point for a better dial

- 1 for the swap of one shield to a hull

- 1 barrel roll

System Upgrade = Beam Weapon = 0 points

2 torp = 2 missiles = 0 points

+ 1 only for the reason that it 'feels' too cheap

= 18 points for 1 ps2 Gunboat

and there you have it. Why shouldn't it equip the HLC?

Do you consider 4 x ps2 Gunboat + HLC to be a gamebreaker?

Easy solution: start with PS3 then.

PS3 Gunboat: 19 points

PS4 Gunboat + EPT: 21 points

You wouldn't give a 2 attack ship a cannon upgrade not only because of the HLC but also because of the two other cannon's available. We know the HLC would be a HUGE upgrade when attacking at range 2 or 3 as you'd be rolling twice the dice and not giving your opponent the extra defense at range 3. At range 1 the Autoblaster may not give the ship more dice but it sure makes those dice a LOT more potent; witness anyone taking it right now and giving up 4 dice attack to use it. The Ion Cannon may just be a one die improvement but with the potential to deal a point less damage but it has it's ionizing effect and also makes the ship a lot more potent at range 3. To me, if you have an attack 2 ship and you can add a cannon to it that is almost a no-brainer decision.

I may have agreed with the 2/2/4/4 breakdown if you go with the 2/1/4/4 I really could see pricing it just like you would a Y-Wing although you'd replace the turret with the Advanced Systems upgrade. Admittedly this does ignore the droid slot.

Until the TIE Defender came around, the gunboat was the only imperial fighter with ion cannons. The cannon upgrade makes plenty of sense there, so it gets access to them.

You wouldn't give a 2 attack ship a cannon upgrade not only because of the HLC but also because of the two other cannon's available. We know the HLC would be a HUGE upgrade when attacking at range 2 or 3 as you'd be rolling twice the dice and not giving your opponent the extra defense at range 3. At range 1 the Autoblaster may not give the ship more dice but it sure makes those dice a LOT more potent; witness anyone taking it right now and giving up 4 dice attack to use it. The Ion Cannon may just be a one die improvement but with the potential to deal a point less damage but it has it's ionizing effect and also makes the ship a lot more potent at range 3. To me, if you have an attack 2 ship and you can add a cannon to it that is almost a no-brainer decision.

This. So far, all of the ships with a Cannon slot have 3 attack dice, so there is a fundamental tradeoff with using a cannon. I'm not completely against putting it on a 2 attack ship, but it needs to cost more points to put a cannon slot on a 2 attack ship than a 3 attack ship. It is called the Gunboat , so that could be used to justify the cannon slot.

The other option is to give it a turret instead. You could get Ion from an Ion Turret. This might be more balanced froma gameplay perspective, but I don't know if it fits with the ship's backstory. It also makes the Gunboat virtual clone of the Y-wing, which I don't like.

... which is still pretty terrifying.

Edit: or, you could make a PS bid and go:

PS4 Gunboat + HLC x2

PS2 Gunboat + Ion Cannon x2

.. which is also pretty nasty.

It would be interesting to see a "mirror match" against a group of B-wings with advanced sensors instead of cannons. My money would probably be on the B-wings, as long as they can stay in range 1 to negate the HLCs and always get their actions. But it would probably be close, if the dice were fair.

You wouldn't give a 2 attack ship a cannon upgrade not only because of the HLC but also because of the two other cannon's available. We know the HLC would be a HUGE upgrade when attacking at range 2 or 3 as you'd be rolling twice the dice and not giving your opponent the extra defense at range 3. At range 1 the Autoblaster may not give the ship more dice but it sure makes those dice a LOT more potent; witness anyone taking it right now and giving up 4 dice attack to use it. The Ion Cannon may just be a one die improvement but with the potential to deal a point less damage but it has it's ionizing effect and also makes the ship a lot more potent at range 3. To me, if you have an attack 2 ship and you can add a cannon to it that is almost a no-brainer decision.

I may have agreed with the 2/2/4/4 breakdown if you go with the 2/1/4/4 I really could see pricing it just like you would a Y-Wing although you'd replace the turret with the Advanced Systems upgrade. Admittedly this does ignore the droid slot.

There is no question about wether the Gunboat should get a cannon upgrade or not.

This vessel carries 2 laser cannons and 2 ion cannons. For the ion cannon a cannon upgrade slot is needed.

For the stats I'm fine with 2-1-4-4 for now, since its between the B-Wing and the Y-Wing ... and the Gunboat should be right there. Somewhere in between of them, although unique.

Lore also says that the Assault Gunboat was the first imperial shielded starfighter which was produced in reasonable numbers (the TIE Advanced don't). Its maon role was to attack capital ships (or capitalish enough to be considered attacking, but not enough to send a Star Destroyer - or even a Victory Star Destroyer) So, The Assault Gunboats worked together with the Assault Shuttles (or ferries?) to disable enemy craft (using its ion cannons) before the were boarded.

Never ever unterestimate the Assault Gunboat - it may not look very dangerous, but it is leathal even in small numbers.

With the introduction of the Gunboat in the Imperial Navy a paradigm shift in military planning and warfare took place.

To outnumber the enemy with cheap unshielded craft wasn't the only tactics any longer.

And this is what I want to have for X-Wing. I hope we succeed.

• +2 for keeping the cannon slot as a 2 point attack

You really wanna beat them for having 'only' 2 attack?

This sounds a bit too made up of an answer.

Following this logic, what is the turret upgrade slot worth in a 1 point attack ship?

... which is still pretty terrifying.

Edit: or, you could make a PS bid and go:

PS4 Gunboat + HLC x2

PS2 Gunboat + Ion Cannon x2

.. which is also pretty nasty.

How about:

Jonus

PS2 Gunboat + HLC (26) x3

...

• +2 for keeping the cannon slot as a 2 point attack

You really wanna beat them for having 'only' 2 attack?

This sounds a bit too made up of an answer.

Following this logic, what is the turret upgrade slot worth in a 1 point attack ship?

True, maybe 2 points is too much. Maybe it should be only -1.5. But it's still within a rounding error. Obviously the minimum cost for a PS2 ship would have to be 18 points, since that's what a Y-wing costs, and clearly its better than a Y-wing. I really think it needs the extra +1 point over a Y-wing to be balanced.

Comparing to the B-wing is much more "made up" to begin with anyway, since the attack values differ.

... which is still pretty terrifying.

Edit: or, you could make a PS bid and go:

PS4 Gunboat + HLC x2

PS2 Gunboat + Ion Cannon x2

.. which is also pretty nasty.

How about:

Jonus

PS2 Gunboat + HLC (26) x3

...

Ha ha, I hadn't thought about that. That would certainly work. Ouch!

We could rise stats to 2-2-4-4 like at the beginning and make the boat a bit more expensive.

PS2 Mu Squadron Pilot 2-2-4-4 (20 points)

I think the ship is fine at 1 agility, its hard to justify such a slow clunker being as evasive as an X-wing. +1 agility for +1 point would be strongly in favor of the Gunboat, since it has 8 hull/shields to eat through.

FYI: average damage numbers for that first alpha strike:

HLC + Focus + Jonus vs 2 agility ship = 2.96 w/o focus, 2.46 with focus

HLC + Focus vs 2 agility ship = 2.26 w/o focus, 1.77 with focus

HLC + Focus + Jonus vs 1 agility ship = 3.33 w/o focus, 3.08 with focus

HLC + Focus vs 1 agility ship = 2.63 w/o focus, 2.38 with focus

So, either way, running 4x HLCs or 3x HLC + Jonus, you should be able to kill a B-wing in the first round, or kill an X-Wing and get a good shot on another ship.

It would be competitive. Its weakness would obviously be anything getting in close to it.

As a side quest, I come up with the beam weapon upgrades:

There is the option to make the effect situational (this tends to be the easy way) or ongoing (more complex, more synergy and side effects, possibly new markers needed).
Lets try to find an 'easy' way to get those bad boys into game. The easy way is the better one in most cases

Jammer Beam:

When defending, you may receive 1 stress token to lower the attack value by 2, if the attacker is in your front arc.

If you have at least 1 stress token, you cannot use this ability.

Tractor Beam:

When attacking , you may receive 1 stress token to reduce the defender's agility value by 1 (to a minimum of 0).

If you have at least 1 stress token, you cannot use this ability.

Decoy Beam:

After a target lock was acquired on your ship, you may receive 1 stress token to remove a target lock on your ship.

If you have at least 1 stress token, you cannot use this ability.

In this attempt all beam weapons produce stress tokens as a limiter.

So Yorr could come in handy.

I think the ship is fine at 1 agility, its hard to justify such a slow clunker being as evasive as an X-wing. +1 agility for +1 point would be strongly in favor of the Gunboat, since it has 8 hull/shields to eat through.

FYI: average damage numbers for that first alpha strike:

HLC + Focus + Jonus vs 2 agility ship = 2.96 w/o focus, 2.46 with focus

HLC + Focus vs 2 agility ship = 2.26 w/o focus, 1.77 with focus

HLC + Focus + Jonus vs 1 agility ship = 3.33 w/o focus, 3.08 with focus

HLC + Focus vs 1 agility ship = 2.63 w/o focus, 2.38 with focus

So, either way, running 4x HLCs or 3x HLC + Jonus, you should be able to kill a B-wing in the first round, or kill an X-Wing and get a good shot on another ship.

It would be competitive. Its weakness would obviously be anything getting in close to it.

OK, aren't 3 x Daggers + FCS + HLC as lethal?