I have a PC Bodyguard in my game that has Barrage (2 ranks tight now) and this Talent just doesn't seem to come up too often, Usually it's because of one or more of the following reasons:

1) The terrain doesn't support the encounter being at Long or Extreme range (the interior of buildings and/or starships).

2) The encounter doesn't support the character(s) carrying around Ranged (Heavy) and/or Gunnery weapons, especially those that can actually be used at Long+ ranges (encounters in a populated and civilized areas).

3) The groups close range very quickly (usually to allow melee and/or pistol users on both sides to engage).

OTOH, and for the inverse of the above reasons, Point Blank seems abnormally easy to get consistent use out of. Any suggestions for helping out Barrage that don't look artificially forced?

Honestly, if you're the GM, you can come up with an opportunity to allow the player to use it that isn't even forced, but it's clear that they should be using it. For example, I've had "unexpected reinforcements" come in for an opposing side come in with the equipment to allow the party to escape or fight their way out (past experience shows the party already set a trap or you need to have them screw up somehow, like getting too close to use the big gun properly or get too close and the party demolishes them).

An old group raided an Imperial Base to steal some information, "stole" a skiff with a cannon attached, and then used it to provide cover fire to ensure their escape. It wasn't originally planned until I noticed a player hadn't used an ability that gave them bonuses to gunnery in a long while. . .and the pilot hadn't had a chase in an equally long time.

Now, if you've done the above and/or you feel like it's "forced," then put the opportunity in the hands of the player and let them have at it. Are they planning on a firefight in a city area and are ready to just duck behind cover and fire away? Note that a local police skiff has a weapon attached. Is the group planning on attacking and are at variable distances? Have the bodyguard stay with the sniper (or anyone else with a longer ranged weapon) and give him something to shoot at to put it to good use. Is this a battlefield and there's an enemy squad moving in? Have him spot a heavy gun on a corpse and let him make a break for it while the group offers cover fire; when he gets it, he's at Long range and can use Barrage against a group without worry!

Essentially, be creative. That's all I can really suggest.

Edit: to further the "create your own scenario" note on behalf of the players: one of my players is playing a politico, and he asked what would the benefit of Scathing Tirade be with a rather combat-centric group of players. He's used it twice in a single game session because he thought of a way to be creative and use it.

The same is true for the Outlaw Tech using Utinni! and the Survivalist using Outdoorsman. If they are crafty, they'll come up with a way to do it themselves that you didn't even plan. . .

Assuming that personal scale weapons mounted on a vehicle/starship can still be used with Barrage, then the weapons on (armed) speeder bikes are one use for it. Unfortunately, the moment the weapons hit Planetary scale, Barrage is definitely useless.

Assuming that personal scale weapons mounted on a vehicle/starship can still be used with Barrage, then the weapons on (armed) speeder bikes are one use for it. Unfortunately, the moment the weapons hit Planetary scale, Barrage is definitely useless.

Considering that heavy guns, like an E-Web, can be mounted on a vehicle, I think you can safely say that personal scale weapons can be mounted on a vehicle.

Why would moving to Planetary Scale make this useless? I mean, manning a gun and being at Long Range of the target should still allow Barrage to be used as the terms are abstract in the first place.

Besides, when you think about it, being at Long Range in space may give you a better short than being at Long Range on a planet due to the inherent spheroid shape of a planet making things tougher to see, no atmosphere to obstruct view, etc. Also, with the weaponry and sensors involved, it would still make sense to be able to use Barrage.

Is the complaint in the few weapons that can reach that range, or is there something else I may be missing?

I have a PC Bodyguard in my game that has Barrage (2 ranks tight now) and this Talent just doesn't seem to come up too often, Usually it's because of one or more of the following reasons:

1) The terrain doesn't support the encounter being at Long or Extreme range (the interior of buildings and/or starships).

2) The encounter doesn't support the character(s) carrying around Ranged (Heavy) and/or Gunnery weapons, especially those that can actually be used at Long+ ranges (encounters in a populated and civilized areas).

3) The groups close range very quickly (usually to allow melee and/or pistol users on both sides to engage).

OTOH, and for the inverse of the above reasons, Point Blank seems abnormally easy to get consistent use out of. Any suggestions for helping out Barrage that don't look artificially forced?

How about use at medium range if used with a carbine. Can't seem to find any reason for carbines at all anyway myself.

Hmm... This can be difficult if there aren't many Vehicle Battles... Unfortunately barrage is one of those Talents where it's so super focused, it can be tough to get a lot of decent use out of it.

If the character has a decent gunnery skill, something could be played off stealing a shipment of imperial heavy arms... And delivering them on a remote planet with a lot of open space. Which could call for star ship combat and possibly using the weapons.... But, this in itself could be a stupid premise if only tailored to a single PC for use of a single talent.

The problem being that Barrage is a long range skill... Its almost like you need to lug a E-Web with you for some type of ridiculous setup to get the best usage out of it...

Assuming that personal scale weapons mounted on a vehicle/starship can still be used with Barrage, then the weapons on (armed) speeder bikes are one use for it. Unfortunately, the moment the weapons hit Planetary scale, Barrage is definitely useless.

Considering that heavy guns, like an E-Web, can be mounted on a vehicle, I think you can safely say that personal scale weapons can be mounted on a vehicle.

Why would moving to Planetary Scale make this useless? I mean, manning a gun and being at Long Range of the target should still allow Barrage to be used as the terms are abstract in the first place.

Besides, when you think about it, being at Long Range in space may give you a better short than being at Long Range on a planet due to the inherent spheroid shape of a planet making things tougher to see, no atmosphere to obstruct view, etc. Also, with the weaponry and sensors involved, it would still make sense to be able to use Barrage.

Is the complaint in the few weapons that can reach that range, or is there something else I may be missing?

Here's the full text for Barrage:

Add one damage per rank of Barrage to one hit of successful Ranged (Heavy) or Gunnery attacks with non-starship/vehicle weapons at long or extreme range.

Technically, it could thus be argued that any weapon, regardless of being personal scale or planetary scale, mounted on a vehicle is not eligible for Barrage. This would mean that the light repeating blasters on speeder bikes and such are not going to benefit. I've instead interpreted it as meaning that Barrage can not be used with planetary scale weapons.

I have a PC Bodyguard in my game that has Barrage (2 ranks tight now) and this Talent just doesn't seem to come up too often, Usually it's because of one or more of the following reasons:

1) The terrain doesn't support the encounter being at Long or Extreme range (the interior of buildings and/or starships).

2) The encounter doesn't support the character(s) carrying around Ranged (Heavy) and/or Gunnery weapons, especially those that can actually be used at Long+ ranges (encounters in a populated and civilized areas).

3) The groups close range very quickly (usually to allow melee and/or pistol users on both sides to engage).

OTOH, and for the inverse of the above reasons, Point Blank seems abnormally easy to get consistent use out of. Any suggestions for helping out Barrage that don't look artificially forced?

How about use at medium range if used with a carbine. Can't seem to find any reason for carbines at all anyway myself.

If the talent could be used at Medium range (in addition to Long and Extreme) then I'd be all for it. It would become almost as useful as Point Blank. Sadly though, that's not how it's written.

And I agree with your assessment of the carbine. It's a trap. Suck up the 1 added Encumbrance and pay the extra 50 credits for a real rifle or don't bother.

My impression on carbines is that they have more damage than pistols and can be used 1-handed with a different skill.

It's definitely more for a sniper, and for a variety of reasons sniping doesn't come up that often in RPGs. If you play like a Rainbow Six style game where the players are planning out the mission and their engagements ahead of time it could be made use of but typically players just stumbling upon their encounters, or vice versa.

My impression on carbines is that they have more damage than pistols and can be used 1-handed with a different skill.

This is a house rule, right? I didn't see anything in the rules that suggests that carbines can be used one-handed in this game.

My impression on carbines is that they have more damage than pistols and can be used 1-handed with a different skill.

This is a house rule, right? I didn't see anything in the rules that suggests that carbines can be used one-handed in this game.

p. 162 under the carbine/rifle description in describing the E-11 stormtroopers use it says at short range they can be fired with one hand as if it were a heavy pistol. Then of course in dual wielding (p.210) the section uses ambiguous language and says the two weapons have to ones that can be "reasonably held and wielded in one hand". "Generally these are Ranged(light) weapons.

I think they intentionally write it open ended for interpretation of each player group and their GM to decide what's reasonable.

If we want to apply a little canon coupled with the fact that carbines are a waste by themselves, in the Clone Wars episode 16 season 4 Cad Bane is wielding a blast pistol and on appearance what is a Mandalorian carbine. So it's possible per the rules and it's in canon, but some restrictions might be in order ala house rules.

I wouldn't worry about balancing the carbine 1handed vs dual wielding. Dual wielding is not very viable.

Also noticed that Barrage is no longer available in Age of Rebellion - it was removed from the Gunner (since it can't be used with vehicle weapons) and now doesn't show up in any of the Specialties in the Beta. And no one seems to miss it...

Perhaps this talent needs help?

Also noticed that Barrage is no longer available in Age of Rebellion - it was removed from the Gunner (since it can't be used with vehicle weapons) and now doesn't show up in any of the Specialties in the Beta. And no one seems to miss it...

Perhaps this talent needs help?

Seems as much. Typically I can make arguments for the use of talents, but the only way I can see this being used is if the group lugs something, like a Repeater and the body guard stand at long range. The problem is, if NPCs DON'T have long range rifles, they logically, should close the range gap. This can happen literally within a turn and if the Bodyguard makes a horrible initiative roll, it makes the skill somewhat useless. The only way to really utilize this is if the bodyguard has a high enough Gunnery/Ranged (Heavy) skill and the group has a Marauder to hold an NPC in place. The skill has to be high enough to offset the danger to do damage to an ally.

Though Bodyguard is more of the 'Heavy Weapons' guy, I don't see how many opportunities you'll have to just let a non-Vehicle weapon, like an E-Web sit there, screaming "use me" with NPCs at long to very long range without the scenario seeming like a 'setup'.

What if Barrage provided extra Advantages equal to its rank that could only be used to activate Blast and/or Auto-fire? This would be in place of what it does now.

What if Barrage provided extra Advantages equal to its rank that could only be used to activate Blast and/or Auto-fire? This would be in place of what it does now.

How about since only bodyguards have it that it does something more related to protecting or assisting a client's escape. Something like for each rank you add a setback die to an opponent's ranged attacks on the subject you are guarding. Kind of like a ranged Bodyguard talent that doesn't require the player to engaged with who he is protecting. Perhaps the opposite that it adds a boost die per rank to other players attacks, like a ranged assist in conjunction with the BGs attack.

Bodyguard (the Specialization) is supposed to more than just what the name implies. It's supposed to be the all-around combatant.

Still, if going for the theme of strictly being a bodyguard, I'd consider a talent that adds setback dice to the target(s) of the character's ranged attacks. In effect the character's fire has a suppressive quality greater than the average.

I could also see just replacing Barrage with Rapid Reaction since it seems a very appropriate Talent for a bodyguard.

Barrage seems to work best for snipers, which is why it's a little weird that it appears on the Bodyguard talent tree. I don't think anyone is going to argue that an Assassin or Big-Game Hunter wouldn't get some mileage out of it. That said, Bodyguards also seem to be the game's weapon masters (they get more combat skills than any other specialization as long as they're a Hired Gun), and Barrage makes them the only specialization with added ability in personal-scale Gunnery weapons. Provided such a weapon were on the field, I'd want to hide behind whoever was using a rocket launcher/heavy repeating blaster/etc, so I suppose it fits thematically as well.

This all doesn't mean it's a great talent, but in the right situation -- such as when you want to shoot down an escaping shuttle or a deadly gunship with well-placed rocket to the engines, or when you have an E-Web handy and want to go out into space to blast some pirates before they board your ion-damaged ship -- it could be pretty useful. Keep in mind that when you're combining personal and vehicular combat, long and extreme range are both covered under "close" on the planetary scale.

Personally, I think Barrage SHOULD work with vehicle weapons since Bodyguards would likely be skilled in manning the turrets mounted on the starships of their wealthy employers. That's a bit overpowered considering what planetary-scale weapons are capable of doing, but it makes more thematic sense than -Bodyguards-as-artillery-experts IMO.

If Barrage is supposed to be used to take down vehicles with blaster rifles, repeating blasters, and missile tubes then it really sucks since it's now an extra 0.1 damage per rank against such targets.

True enough. But you can still man an E-Web on top of a hill on the valleys of Gammor, blasting savages from afar while your buddies charge down the hill to protect all the squishies in the party.

True enough. But you can still man an E-Web on top of a hill on the valleys of Gammor, blasting savages from afar while your buddies charge down the hill to protect all the squishies in the party.

Sounds like something that'll come up close to never.

Give it a different effect?

Suppressive fire, maybe? (Targets must pass a diff.3 Discipline check to move closer?)

Give it a different effect?

Suppressive fire, maybe? (Targets must pass a diff.3 Discipline check to move closer?)

This is a good option. The name of the talent implies some kind of area effect anyway.

Give it a different effect?

Suppressive fire, maybe? (Targets must pass a diff.3 Discipline check to move closer?)

I was thinking something that forces the opponent that fails a Discipline check against it (difficulty of 2 + ranks in Barrage) to have to spend their next Maneuver to either move further away or to take cover. Maybe run it like Scathing tirade - the barrage causes strain on several opponents. Still not sure of an exact mechanism, but something that suppresses the targets would be best...

Perhaps making it Active and spending a Barrage Maneuver prior to the shot applies rank Black dice to the target might work, but the Bodyguard already has way too many Active talents that eat into Maneuvers.

Or the passive version - Setback dice generated by Advantages generated on the character's Ranged (Heavy) and Gunnery attacks are increased by Barrage rank. So while anyone can spend 2 Advantages to add 1 Setback die to an opponent's next action, the guy with Barrage 2 can spend those 2 Advantages to add 3 Setback dice to an opponent's next action. I would allow this at any range, and I might even remove the limits on weapon type - even a blaster pistol should be able to pin down an opponent.