Why, exactly, can the Empire only have 1 Captive in their fleet?

More specifically asked, why is the Rebel Captive a unique upgrade?

Short answer- to avoid abuse of the benefit.

Long answer- Yes, the Empire probably has LOTs of Rebel Captives. I assume that the card does not necessarily represent a SINGLE Captive, but could just as easily represent a small GROUP of prisoners. What is important is the effect the presence of this Rebel Captive has on attacking Rebel pilots. So is it unreasonable to think that if the Empire were transporting multiple Rebel Captives that they might split them up among multiple vessels, for the sake of security (why pot all your eggs in one basket?)? No, not unreasonable at all! On the other hand, it would be even more reasonable to split up such important prisoners over multiple convoys (why put all your baskets next to each other?). In the end, though, it is about game balance .

Suggestions- If you are playing a friendly game (and your opponent doesn't mind), give it a try... experiment with it and see if it really does give an unfair advantage or messes with game balance. Write a scenario where the presence of multiple Rebel Captives is justified. You bought the game, do what you want with it! But, if you expect to play with others, especially in any kind of sanctioned game or tournament, then you have to play by the official FFG rules and those rules say that you can have only ONE.

Chris

Neil in the UK played a game when RC was announced without it being unique, and let's just say he won handily and his opponent wasn't real pleased at the end of the game. Game balance is why it is unique. The developers and play testers have gone to great lengths to make a balanced game, and I think they have done an outstanding job.

I was hoping to have an exploration as to the potential abuse of the benefit, and wondering if that potential abuse warranted the marker.

As such:

Multiple captives require multiple Crew Slots, so either multiple Firespray-31, a single Lambda Class Shuttle, or potentially multiple of the last.

Full abuse mode: The most Rebel Captives you could theoretically run in a single 100 point fleet if Multiples were allowed is 6, from 3 Lambda Shuttles.

Now, fighting against that Full Abuse Mode, the first that I have attack that fleet receives 2 stress tokens, which would take 2 turns of green maneuvers to clear.

At minimum, that guarantees 1 turn with no actions, and 2 turns with no possible red maneuvers.

That gives me 2 possible strategies:

1. Keep a ship as the Stressball Designate, being the first attacker every round of combat. In a fleet with several different pilot skills, this strategy becomes the only one available, but it is still possible from a swarm of like-leveled pilots.
2. Rotate the Stress-ball around a few different pilots, maximizing the removal of stress.

Note that BOTH tactics require focusing down the ships with the rebel captives with your entire fleet, therefore ensuring that the ships with Rebel Captives are likely saved for last.

However: is having the potential for a vicious cycle of stress so terrible? Way I see it, teaching folks to focus down specific ships is a good thing, and the only ship you've currently got that can cause the vicious cycle goes down very swiftly to focused fire.

Probably a game balance issue, there are ways to weaken that strategy of course (Tycho Celchu everybody!) but it would be annoying even if it doesn't spell instant doom.

From a Fluff perspective, maybe the rebel captive is a high ranking officer, hero, or otherwise vital to the war effort individual? They don't want to kill any of their people but only a major player at risk actively stresses them out. It would also explain why it is an imperial only card, despite it not being overpowering the rebels at all, in fact in a friendly rebs vs imps game it would be underpowered since most imperial ships carry a lot of greens.

Probably a game balance issue, there are ways to weaken that strategy of course (Tycho Celchu everybody!) but it would be annoying even if it doesn't spell instant doom.

From a Fluff perspective, maybe the rebel captive is a high ranking officer, hero, or otherwise vital to the war effort individual? They don't want to kill any of their people but only a major player at risk actively stresses them out. It would also explain why it is an imperial only card, despite it not being overpowering the rebels at all, in fact in a friendly rebs vs imps game it would be underpowered since most imperial ships carry a lot of greens.

Might make Tycho Celchu playable again.

I was hoping to have an exploration as to the potential abuse of the benefit, and wondering if that potential abuse warranted the marker.

As such:

Multiple captives require multiple Crew Slots, so either multiple Firespray-31, a single Lambda Class Shuttle, or potentially multiple of the last.

Full abuse mode: The most Rebel Captives you could theoretically run in a single 100 point fleet if Multiples were allowed is 6, from 3 Lambda Shuttles.

Now, fighting against that Full Abuse Mode, the first that I have attack that fleet receives 2 stress tokens, which would take 2 turns of green maneuvers to clear.

At minimum, that guarantees 1 turn with no actions, and 2 turns with no possible red maneuvers.

That gives me 2 possible strategies:

1. Keep a ship as the Stressball Designate, being the first attacker every round of combat. In a fleet with several different pilot skills, this strategy becomes the only one available, but it is still possible from a swarm of like-leveled pilots.
2. Rotate the Stress-ball around a few different pilots, maximizing the removal of stress.

Note that BOTH tactics require focusing down the ships with the rebel captives with your entire fleet, therefore ensuring that the ships with Rebel Captives are likely saved for last.

However: is having the potential for a vicious cycle of stress so terrible? Way I see it, teaching folks to focus down specific ships is a good thing, and the only ship you've currently got that can cause the vicious cycle goes down very swiftly to focused fire.

Sounds like it would be an AWESOME game for YOU, not really that enjoyable to whoever you are playing with/against. If all you want is to create a monster list that can defeat all comers strictly through frustration, then just save your time and your opponents. Declare victory before you even start the game, give yourself a pat on the back for your display of true genius and celebrate with a pint of your favorite. Such a celebration, however, does not even require a human opponent. On the other hand, if you want to game with a fellow human, there must be something in it for both parties. Most people play games to have FUN... there is no fun to be had playing against such a list (IMHO). Should we ever meet across a game table, I'll give you the "win" and maybe we can get on with a game we will BOTH enjoy, then tell "war stories" and laugh about what a great game we had over a nice pint.

Cheers!

Chris

* Note: the opinions expressed above are wholly my own and are necessarily the opinions of others on this forum. Thank You and Good Night*

Why, exactly, can the Empire only have 1 Captive in their fleet?

More specifically asked, why is the Rebel Captive a unique upgrade?

there is only 1 carbonite Han Solo

Sooooooooooo Chris is clearly in the "The potential abuse isn't worth it" camp.

I gotta say, dude, you've actually hurting my feelings a bit. I was hoping to have an open discussion about merits and demerits, as opposed to being outright called the worst kind of player.

In my break-down (which you quoted in its entirety), I put myself in the position of flying AGAINST the stressful fleet. I thought that it was very easily beaten, and was hoping to get some enlightenment one way or another from the folks in this community, either affirming my suspicious or educating me on their flaws in the friendly and playful manner that I've come to expect.

Personally I think it would be easy to beat, Wedge, Any high skilled pilot that uses ion weaponry, or tycho would render it much less effective since the lose of actions won't hurt their offense against the Shuttle that much and defense would be a secondary concern against that kind of list. Would take awhile to shed but costing on greens wouldn't be that detrimental if there are no ties.

Sooooooooooo Chris is clearly in the "The potential abuse isn't worth it" camp.

I gotta say, dude, you've actually hurting my feelings a bit. I was hoping to have an open discussion about merits and demerits, as opposed to being outright called the worst kind of player.

In my break-down (which you quoted in its entirety), I put myself in the position of flying AGAINST the stressful fleet. I thought that it was very easily beaten, and was hoping to get some enlightenment one way or another from the folks in this community, either affirming my suspicious or educating me on their flaws in the friendly and playful manner that I've come to expect.

My sincere and humble apologies. It was never my intent ti insult or hurt any feelings (guess I failed that roll...). Honestly, I should have just kept my fingers off my key board on this one. I am one of the first and foremost proponents of open discussions. I feel like such a hypocrite

Different people play games for different reasons. Some are really into the tournament scene. Some find great enjoyment developing "killer" lists. Some just collect and paint the minis. I play mostly for fun, for the enjoyment of a little shared storytelling and interpersonal interaction. To each his/her own. I should have remembered it. The list you proposed is, indeed an interesting exercise in "what ifs" and I'm (now) sure that that is how you meant it. To me, fielding such a list (if, indeed you ever intended to put it to use) is a form of "mental masturbation" (no insult intended) as it is all about "your" fun and does not require a "partner". Nothing wrong with that, just not my cup of team.

I'll go and take my meds and shut up, now. Carry on.

Chris

So in a tourny, would this be almost worthless since a good chunk of your fights will be against other imp squads to which this upgrade does nothing?

Its very easy to theorycraft a squad A to beat my squad B, but I think everyone agrees that your squad A also has to beat squads C through Z. You're proposing Wedge, tycho, and dutch with ion as a multiple rebel captiive hate squad? Ok, I can think of lots of squads that that would struggle against.

Having one pilot stressed every round will throw off many people's plans. Having multiple pilots stressed, or the same pilot stressed throughout the game is annoying at best. You want to focus fire? Ok, how about I bring 2 bh with rebel captive and assault missiles, along with a black squad pilot with either draw their fire or squad leader.

But you don't have to believe anything I say. Run some tests of your own. Play against multiple rc squads and see what you think. Maybe you can find something that the playtesters didn't. But I'm guessing it is unique because the playtesters broke it. They are good at that sort of thing.