It does though...

It is also quite normal that the amount of damage that does ignore soak directely corolates with the ability that makes it do so.

It seems to me if that is what was meant it would have indicated as such, in the nice clear manner that you did.

No slight intended and I agree it could be clearer but grammatically it does say it only applies to the Ranks of Medicine. It's the plus additional that delineates it from the rest of the strain damage.

It depends on what the meaning of the word "(th)is" is

couldn't resist

If it would have meant no soak whatsoever it would have said so explicitely.

"When making a Brawl
check against an opponent,
instead of dealing damage,
may deal equivalent strain
plus additional strain equal
to ranks of Medicine (this
ignores soak) ."

Okay, the italicized text in parenthesise is modifying to the text in bold and the plus additional separates the text in bold from the previous text so:

"When making a Brawl
check against an opponent,
instead of dealing damage,
may deal equivalent strain"

means you may substitute the Damage rolled from your Brawl Attack for Strain - END

"plus additional strain equal
to ranks of Medicine (this
ignores soak) ."

Means you add additional Strain equal to the PCs ranks in Medicine and this amount ignores soak.

There are two types of effects here, First an amount of Damage that can be substituted into Strain and a second amount of Strain that ignores Soak.

Exactly.. if I'm running a game I can have the badguys move for cover and draw blasters. If a player reacts to this by drawing their blaster, or lethal weapons, and attacking with intent to kill THEY have escalated the fight, and altered how the fight could have gone.

I'm sorry, but if someone draws a gun (or a weapon of any sort) on me, the fight has already been escalated to lethal force. Even the lowly 'stun gun' is a deadly weapon by law. Do you know why?

Because once that person has used it on you, and reduced you to a twitching pile of pain, you're essentially helpless and they're free to beat the living crap out of you at their leisure.

You don't have to let someone kill you, or knock you out, or beat you up, before you can defend yourself. Nor do you have to trust in the kindness of the folks who just drew a weapon on you, that they don't *actually* want to put you down permanently.

Not necessarily so. Since it's one contiguous clause, the parenthesized portion should apply to the entire clause. It could just as easily (and just as accurately) be read like this...

When making a Brawl check against an opponent, instead of doing damage, may deal equivalent strain plus additional strain equal to ranks of medicine (this ignores soak).

... because that "plus" means the Medicine-based strain is added to the initial strain amount, making them one lump sum.

If they really wanted to make it say that only the Medicine-based strain ignores soak, they should have writen something like, "When making a Brawl check against an opponent, instead of doing damage, may deal equivalent strain. Also, add strain equal to ranks of medicine (this ignores soak)."

I should note that I believe FFG intended to say that only the ranks in Medicine ignored soak, but the text is unclear and can be easily and correctly read either way.

I don't know if there are possibly different versions of these rules but my core rulebook precise quote.

"When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak."

That pretty clearly means to me you add Medicine to your total damage, which is all strain, and soak is not applied to the hit.

I don't know if there are possibly different versions of these rules but my core rulebook precise quote.

"When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak."

That pretty clearly means to me you add Medicine to your total damage, which is all strain, and soak is not applied to the hit.

Good catch, 2P51. We've been debating the text on the Talent Tree, but the full descriptive text in the Talents chapter makes it obvious. All the strain ignores soak.

I don't know if there are possibly different versions of these rules but my core rulebook precise quote.

"When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak."

That pretty clearly means to me you add Medicine to your total damage, which is all strain, and soak is not applied to the hit.

Good catch, 2P51. We've been debating the text on the Talent Tree, but the full descriptive text in the Talents chapter makes it obvious. All the strain ignores soak.

I don't know if there are possibly different versions of these rules but my core rulebook precise quote.

"When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak."

That pretty clearly means to me you add Medicine to your total damage, which is all strain, and soak is not applied to the hit.

Good catch, 2P51. We've been debating the text on the Talent Tree, but the full descriptive text in the Talents chapter makes it obvious. All the strain ignores soak.

And again I say its one of the most easily abused Talents in the game. I almost never hear of anyone using it that hasn't also stacked on Feral Strength and/or Deadly Accuracy.

Oh yah, no doubt abused, there is no way I'd let it fly. This is just one of the talents that has to be checked by some house rule constraints.

And again I say its one of the most easily abused Talents in the game. I almost never hear of anyone using it that hasn't also stacked on Feral Strength and/or Deadly Accuracy.

That may be... but it's going to take what, 150 XP alone for the Gadgeteer / Doctor to get both Deadly Accuracy and Pressure Points. Or worse, 180 XP for the Marauder / Doctor to get all three Feral Strength and Pressure Points. And that's before they spend any points at all in Brawl or Medicine.

If they've spent that much XP... well, maybe they SHOULD be able to use it.

And again I say its one of the most easily abused Talents in the game. I almost never hear of anyone using it that hasn't also stacked on Feral Strength and/or Deadly Accuracy.

That may be... but it's going to take what, 150 XP alone for the Gadgeteer / Doctor to get both Deadly Accuracy and Pressure Points. Or worse, 180 XP for the Marauder / Doctor to get all three Feral Strength and Pressure Points. And that's before they spend any points at all in Brawl or Medicine.

If they've spent that much XP... well, maybe they SHOULD be able to use it.

It is alot of xp but it really falls to the GM to make the call I think. If they want their characters to be characters in a RPG and not optimum stats in a MMO just tell them if they go Dr. they expect them to be a Dr. I'd apply peer pressure if I was in the group and explain I expect them to be a wee bit more helpful than punching people in the nose if they want a full cut of the loot.

I don't know if there are possibly different versions of these rules but my core rulebook precise quote.

"When making a Brawl check against a living opponent, the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain, plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with any weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak."

That pretty clearly means to me you add Medicine to your total damage, which is all strain, and soak is not applied to the hit.

Wow, that is weird man... And also, my player was right... I'll have to do a mea culpa this weekend!

It is alot of xp but it really falls to the GM to make the call I think. If they want their characters to be characters in a RPG and not optimum stats in a MMO just tell them if they go Dr. they expect them to be a Dr. I'd apply peer pressure if I was in the group and explain I expect them to be a wee bit more helpful than punching people in the nose if they want a full cut of the loot.

Oh, I'm with you there 100%. I mean, I could see someone roleplaying this crazy smart person who has spent a good chunk of his life studying, learning about, well... everything. Gadgets. People. Computers. But yes... as a GM, I would be rather unhappy if the person failed to act out their role as a doctor.

200 XP isn't all that much in this game. I've got a group that's approaching 300 XP and they're just starting to look seasoned. Most of their career skills at rank 2-3 with only one hitting a 4, and most Talents are from the 15 XP or less sets. They're well rounded and very playable, but not optimized for killiness. That, unfortunately, is what I see Pressure Point feeding - not making a better doctor, but just a silly powerful dose of killiness in a non-combat career.

200 XP isn't all that much in this game. I've got a group that's approaching 300 XP and they're just starting to look seasoned. Most of their career skills at rank 2-3 with only one hitting a 4, and most Talents are from the 15 XP or less sets. They're well rounded and very playable, but not optimized for killiness. That, unfortunately, is what I see Pressure Point feeding - not making a better doctor, but just a silly powerful dose of killiness in a non-combat career.

But it's not /just/ the 200XP. You also have to figure in raising Brawn and adding in the necessary skills (Brawl and Medicine) to make it really worth while.

But it's not /just/ the 200XP. You also have to figure in raising Brawn and adding in the necessary skills (Brawl and Medicine) to make it really worth while.

Quoting myself here to make it plain that I'm not saying I want people to min-max, but that if they come by these talents naturally, I wouldn't deny them their use.

But it's not /just/ the 200XP. You also have to figure in raising Brawn and adding in the necessary skills (Brawl and Medicine) to make it really worth while.

Quoting myself here to make it plain that I'm not saying I want people to min-max, but that if they come by these talents naturally, I wouldn't deny them their use.

I've never seen a primarily Doctor, at all. (Had a couple of mechanics, a poltico and a trader)

But from play while Doc Punchface can knockout pretty much anything in a couple of jabs, the merc or assassin (they are in different groups) just hose everything down with autofire and Deadly Accuracy

Hm. I just made a well-rounded knowledge-seeking Archaeologist / Gadgeteer / Doctor who can pull off 21 points of strain damage that ignores soak.

5 (Brawn) + 3 (Shock Gloves) + 4 (Brawl via Deadly Accuracy) +4 (Medicine via Pressure Point) + 5 (Intellect via Anatomy Lessons) = 21 Strain. (An argument might be made that the Intellect bonus taken from Anatomy Lessons doesn't ignore soak, but I'm not convinced.)

She can pretty much one-shot anything.

Of course, to make it well-rounded, I had to spend 1000XP, but it was a fun exercise.

Hm. I just made a well-rounded knowledge-seeking Archaeologist / Gadgeteer / Doctor who can pull off 21 points of strain damage that ignores soak.

5 (Brawn) + 3 (Shock Gloves) + 4 (Brawl via Deadly Accuracy) +4 (Medicine via Pressure Point) + 5 (Intellect via Anatomy Lessons) = 21 Strain. (An argument might be made that the Intellect bonus taken from Anatomy Lessons doesn't ignore soak, but I'm not convinced.)

She can pretty much one-shot anything.

Of course, to make it well-rounded, I had to spend 1000XP, but it was a fun exercise.

Pressure Point can't be used with any weapons - including Shock Gloves.

Fair enough. It's still 18 points of strain in one hit... all of which ignores soak.