I'm sure I don't follow.

I take it to mean that you disagree with me, and I think you're trying to be funny about it and failing, but I'm still not sure.

I'm sure I don't follow.

I take it to mean that you disagree with me, and I think you're trying to be funny about it and failing, but I'm still not sure.

CPS wasn't really clear. Basically, "40krpg.txt" translates to 40k rpg summed up in a nutshell. .txt refers to the file extension for text files, meaning that you summed it up with a quote. If someone posted a video of someone shooting and missing a dozen times before suddenly blowing up a tank, it would be 40krpg.avi, because it would be a video. The joke is that if someone saved that video or quote, that would be the title because they describe things perfectly.

The joke is basically that your comment about duct taping the system together because that's how it's always been basically sums up the design of all 40k RPGs, so CPS made the joke that what you said could just be called "40krpg.txt" because it sums up the game perfectly. Does that make sense?

Yeah basically that. It's a meme I thought was a little more widespread. That's a good explanation of what it means but it certainly does kill the joke.

The biggest problem I have with suppressing fire is that although willpower seems the obvious choice, it really should be battle hardened acolytes that should be able to shrug of the horror of battle and not some academic or priest.

I have always found it odd that an imperial guardsman who often has low willpower is so bad at handling suppressing fire, while the priest who might never have been in a real large battle shrugs it off as nothing.

"Oh god, it's the guns again! This is landing day all over again!"

"GLORY TO THE FIRST MAN TO DIE!"

I think it's fine as it stands

This actually touches upon another issue:

Why is the Willpower stat called Willpower? Very few of the uses we see actually relate to willpower, but rather to your degree of inductrination.

It kinda feels like 2 nebulous stats held together with duct tape "because that's how it was in the old WHFRPG."

Well, it is actually based upon your 'will to do something'-- it's not necessarily specific about where that will comes from.

You could perhaps have a high willpower because you're a hardline guardsman veteran, or because The Emperor Protects.

Why is the Willpower stat called Willpower? Very few of the uses we see actually relate to willpower, but rather to your degree of inductrination.

It kinda feels like 2 nebulous stats held together with duct tape "because that's how it was in the old WHFRPG."

I'm assuming that by uses you mean all the crazy faith-based talents, in which case that's mostly channeling willpower through indoctrination. I'd say they're closely related enough to be worth having just one stat for, since it doesn't really matter whether you can resist fear because you're hardcore or because you're confident the emperor will protect you so there's no real reason to be afraid. (Well, mechanically, there is a difference, since your faith can be used for all sorts of talents, but that's another story)

Yeah basically that. It's a meme I thought was a little more widespread. That's a good explanation of what it means but it certainly does kill the joke.

Well, the joke was dead as soon as you muddied the waters by linking to a website devoted to scornful mocking of bad storytelling, which suggested that might be your attitude.

Why is the Willpower stat called Willpower? Very few of the uses we see actually relate to willpower, but rather to your degree of inductrination.

It kinda feels like 2 nebulous stats held together with duct tape "because that's how it was in the old WHFRPG."

in which case that's mostly channeling willpower through indoctrination.

As a note however, you don't actually need to be a member of the Ministorum or even an adherent of the Imperial Creed to use basically 'Emperor powers' in 40k.

Magic-like effects are an inherent part of 40k's makeup, and a fanatical devotee of The Emperor could likely channel that pretty much regardless of how he heard about The Emperor.

Why is the Willpower stat called Willpower? Very few of the uses we see actually relate to willpower, but rather to your degree of inductrination.

It kinda feels like 2 nebulous stats held together with duct tape "because that's how it was in the old WHFRPG."

Well, someone doesn't know WHFRPG as well as they think they do. Yet is exactly right...

Gather round while Old Uncle Cail tells you a tale...

In WHFRP 1 there were two stats called Willpower and Cool. Willpower was specifically used to determine magic (psychic) attacks and defence, also resisting temptation and deamon effects. Cool was used for fear checks and the like.

When Hogshead sold the rights to Black Industries, the BI WHFRP 2 streamlined the system which resulted in a large merging of many of the attributes. WP and CL became a single stat, Willpower. So yes, that is exactly why it feels that way.

The same thing happened with Agility and Dexterity. Your ability to dodge and your initiative order were originally determined by seperate stats.

This is the system from which FFG's systems take their root.

Cail, you're absolutely right!
How did I forget about cool?*
That's why it feels like such a clutch-up!

The same thing happened with Agility and Dexterity. Your ability to dodge and your initiative order were originally determined by seperate stats.

Technically, you Movement stat was tossed into this mix as well, in about the worst way possible.

Thanks for the reminder though!






* By not looking in my book for too long, that's how!

Yeah, the problems are arising because of an issue in practicality. In WHFRP WP was the most predominant stat, because the system didn't include things like pinning, and fear (based) checks were relatively rare, so at the time the merger worked. Cool was a very rare stat to use, in part because the insanity system was completely different.

The problem is the 40k setting means that the Cool element of the stat is now the version which we are required to make tests on during most encounters (fear of mutants, avoiding being pinned etc) so the issues with the merger start to show.

Although to give them their credit, they did introduce Perception as a skill again.

Yeah, the problems are arising because of an issue in practicality. In WHFRP WP was the most predominant stat, because the system didn't include things like pinning, and fear (based) checks were relatively rare, so at the time the merger worked. Cool was a very rare stat to use, in part because the insanity system was completely different.

The problem is the 40k setting means that the Cool element of the stat is now the version which we are required to make tests on during most encounters (fear of mutants, avoiding being pinned etc) so the issues with the merger start to show.

Although to give them their credit, they did introduce Perception as a skill again.

I think this cuts to the heart of the matter: is pinning important enough to have a separate stat or system?

My own opinion is that it doesn't; it's close enough to fear (and willpower) to be rolled into it and I'll tolerate any odd discrepancy it causes.

I think the issue at hand is that as a bi-product psykers and priestly characters are also often the most naturally immune to fear.

Personally I don't have a problem with this. As I said, Cool was rarely used in its initial incarnation when the two were seperate, and I'd rather have a system that is less cluttered, plus the XP system is no longer compatible with the system for which this was designed (everything used to be a flat 100xp for +5 increase) but I think its definately the heart of the impetus for this discussion.

I think the issue at hand is that as a bi-product psykers and priestly characters are also often the most naturally immune to fear.

Personally I don't have a problem with this. As I said, Cool was rarely used in its initial incarnation when the two were seperate, and I'd rather have a system that is less cluttered, plus the XP system is no longer compatible with the system for which this was designed (everything used to be a flat 100xp for +5 increase) but I think its definately the heart of the impetus for this discussion.

This actually makes sense! Priests are the Exemplars of the Imperial creed and psykers have been exposed to wors horrors than being shot at prior to entering the game! (Sanctioning ain't no picnic!) Also, For all the groups that won't play a Sergeant to save their lives: There are a number of Command based talents that make it easier or even unnecessary to make a pinning test!

Im not sure gunfire creates fear in seasoned fighters, they run to cover to save there hides. the minus to BS seems fair. when a auto weapon is shooting at you .

Pinning maybe should have a different minus for the size of gun

Im sure a auto 22 does not have the same "hide to cover" effect as a 50cal. machinegun