Previously, I believe Bitter Rivals was ruled that if your opponent did not have a key word in hand and you did not want to change the zone, you could just ask them to pitch a key word anyway. However, it was ruled differently during the SEC. Which one is correct?

Bitter Rivals

E Reveal your hand: Your opponent reveals their hand. Either change the attack zone of this attack to any other zone or your opponent discards one card with a key word ability (Their choice).

Actually, in parenthesis it should read (your choice). You get to decide. I don't see why you can't choose them to discard a keyword ability, regardless of whether or not they actually have any in-hand.

Exactly. So for bitter rivals you choose one of the effects, either change the zone, or your opponent discarding a card with a keyword ability. If you choose to make them discard a card and they cant, then that is that. Them actually discarding a card with a keyword ability is not a requirement of the card, it is part of the effect.

the actual arguement we got agianst this was somewhere along the lines of "bitter rivals has to target a card in your opponents hand that is a keyword for them to discard it". and later i heard some "there was an errata". but the thing is scott gaines and paul taylor agreed with this and we had to play this way at the regional

bitter rivals does not target a card. the "your choice" is referring to A) changing the zone or B) forcing your opp. to discard a card with a keyword.

If your opponent has 3 cards in hand with a keyword THEY decide which one is discarded, you simply choose option A or B. If you choose B and they can't fulfil it i dont see why that is a problem. Look at Basara's support...it penalizes the opp for not being able to fulfil discarding, etc. This would make me think that unless the card says otherwise, there is no penalty if you cannot discard when isntructed.

Nothing is being targeted. Even if it was it would be your opponent who got targeted, not a specific card.

After a quick glance - whirling stamps to all, except for the Scott Gains/Paul Taylor ruling... that is completely inaccurate.

i rem from the old forums i'm almost 100% positive it was said if your opponent does not have a keyword, you have to change the zone b/c there is nothing to target? so which way is correct?

i wish there was old fourms to link too lol.

so can we get a rules mod to say what it does ver batem etc.

Antigoth is a rules arbiter, as am I, and I agree with Antigoth. There's no "targeting", if your opponent doesn't have a card with a keyword ability, good for them - Bitter Rivals did nothing.

thanks. i am by far no pro at rulings. i shouldn't of been asked **** since i am in the tournament. glad we all know now. god f bitter rivals it needs to go so bad.

we really need a big sticky topic or page on the website with all these rulings together. this is way to convaluted in here with all these threads.

What's so bad about Bitter Rivals? I still have yet to see it really abused to the point of breaking the game, except for HanzoKick - in which it's clearly NOT the Bitter Rivals that's broken.

ok first im gonna be a lil mad if im right cause that would mean that the ppl i have been playing with have been doing it wrong cause it is worded so weird

so they get to change the zone or make u discard a card with a keyword (enhance users choice) i thought it was saying () and everyone at our local shop) thought it was saying they get to choose the keyword ability not just either or

they get to choose either (discard a card with a keyword ability) or (change the zone of the attack to a different zone). the choice of zone is theirs. the choice of which card to discard is yours, not theirs. they merely tell you you must discard one such eligible card.

yes but they only get to say that i discard a card with a key word they dont get to choose the keyword right??

yoshgex1122 said:

Correct.

Scott Gaines said:

i remember what you speak of - the issue was this:

if you do NOT wish to change the zone of the attack after seeing your opponent's hand, you MUST declare that you wish to have them discard a keyword. the reason people would be forced to choose a zone change was due to anti discard actions that had a keyword (desperation).

Scott Gaines said:

Or FFG could create a Database of all the cards with:

rulings

eratta

and what formats they are legal in.

Gatherer anyone?

anti discard action desperation? what? desperation is an anti discard? or did i just miss read that?

Desperation is a keyword that triggers when you are at half or less life. It generally makes card difficulties easier.There were cards that had desperation as well as text on the card that would trigger if it were discarded from your hand.

o that is really cool i havent seen NE like that yet but that is neat

Kyle Edwards said:

Let us get the revised rules published (hopefully Friday), that *SHOULD* take care of most of the rulings questions.

After that a database containing rulings - Yes... that is somewhere in the future plans.

yoshgex1122 said:

Yea, the card of which they are referring to is Dodge Step.