I have only been playing this game for a few months. It's the first miniature game I've ever played. I just play at home with my wife and kids. I like it a lot, but there is one rule that really bugs me, maybe it's because I misunderstand it, but as far as I understand, when two ships overlap, the ship that moves second, the higher skilled pilot, looses his action when he overlaps the other ships' base. I understand that the higher skilled pilot gets an advantage because he gets to shoot first in the combat phase, and he gets to move second in the activation phase, so he can pick his action after he sees what the lower ranking pilot does. But he gets a BIG disadvantage too. Because let's say you have Darth Vader fighting a rookie pilot. Neither one of them knows where the other is going to move during the planning phase. So if they both end up moving to the same spot, and overlap each other, Darth Vader, one of the best pilots in the galaxy, looses his action, but the rookie pilot, who is probably out for the first time, still gets an action because he moved first.

So I came up with an alternate rule for overlapping ships. I want to know what you more experienced players think of this idea. The rule is simple, when two ships overlap, the lower skilled pilot receives a stress token, and the higher skilled pilot can still perform his action. And my reasoning behind this is this: if you were not a highly skilled pilot and almost got into a collision, because obviously there are no collisions in this game, you would be stressed. But the higher skilled pilot with more experience was able to easily avoid the collision, so he should still be able to perform an action. So this rule would still apply even if the two ships were on the same team, it would also apply in situations like this, so lets say for example, that Luke overlaps Biggs, Biggs would receive a stress token, and so Luke has to back up along his template, and by so doing, overlaps Wedge, and so then Luke would also receive a stress token. In the case that the two pilot skills are tied, they would both receive a stress token, the ship who caused the overlapping situation with his maneuver would not get to perform an action.

I've been playing with this rule for a while now, and it's been working well for me. What do you guys think?

tbh I think the current system works well, there are always going to be rules people do not like, but adding stress to lower pilot skill ships would mean, everyone would be trying to ram ships if they had a pilot skill of 7/8/9 etc

What do you guys think?

If it works for you, great But it would also pretty much destroy the whole concept behind the tie swarm.

Being able to avoid running into someone else is one of the skills you pick up as you play the game. That said... I tend to agree with you in some ways. It does seem like the higher skilled pilots have a weakness in moving last, they're more likely to lose their actions. It is a bit odd that Han Solo in the Millennium Falcon doesn't get to do something because a Tie Fighter happens to fly in front of him.

The whole game was built with those rules in place and changing them can have some huge unintended consequences. But if you all are happy with that rule then go for it. The biggest issue would be if you started to play with other people who don't play that way.

imo FFG built the rules to specifically allow low PS ship to block and run interference of other higher PS ships. Its something that took me a long time to come to terms with and i hated it at first - the system felt counter-intuitive and didnt really make sense to me.

It something u can use to ur advantage and tho and even rebel players can use low PS pilots to cause problems - although the rule of movement does favour the player with the most ships.

Terrible idea. Sorry, but that suggestion COMPLETELY flips things and as someone else already pointed out would lead to those highly skilled pilot ramming opponents every turn. Think about it, Vader runs into someone and that ship gets stressed (with all kinds of unforeseen consequences considering most stress comes from things the ship/pilot does) while Vader then just barrel rolls away and does something else.

I've seen the threads and blogs pointing out how having the higher pilot rating is an advantage. You know that ship your high level pilot just ran into, the odds are very good that it will not be able to attack you anyway (overlap to touching rules) so your skilled pilot can't be touched. Depending on how/why you overlapped you could now have an advantage next turn if chasing that ship.

One advantage of the high level ships can be knowing where the clear spots will most likely be when they plan their moves. You've got Vader and a Rookie going at it so Vader can just plan on moving right where the Rookie had been because the Rookie will move out of the way before Vader gets there. This is an important part to realize when running swarms as well and is why you usually see the lower PL ships in front so they can "get out of the way" of the higher rated pilots trailing them.

i dislike the higher skilled pilot losing his action. I can see why FFG designed the rule, but I think it is one of the poorer rules in the game. Granted not eveyone likes all of the rules in any game, but we learn to live with them. Higher skilled pilots in X-wing are really under-rated in whatthey should be able to do. You became a higher level pilot because you are better than those rookies. typically in air combat(may or may not apply to X-Wing) a couple of rookies would be in a lot of trouble against a expert like wedge. A swarm of 5 or 6 rookies agains 2 or 3 aces would find themselves very dead. but the designers do not see it that way, so we live with what we have until a way to equal out the combat comes about. I hope that some day expert pilots will achieve new skills based on their pilot rating. A 9 should really be allowed more leeway in combat with a 1,2, or 3 level pilot.

Receiving a stress token is pretty severe as it greatly reduces your maneuver selection on the following turn.

Besides, its easier for high PS pilots to avoid collisions because they can fly into the voids left by low PS pilots.

High Level Pilots have some great advantages.

- Being able to boost into gaps in fire arcs

- Being able to Target Lock after the enemy has moved in (this is huge with any ordnance based force)

- Abilities, most of them cost far less than they would if they were an upgrade, SO not all the cost of that high PS is really in the PS.

- Being able to fire first.

its not always the higher position craft. sometimes you're the same number but you don't have the initiative or sometimes if your not used to flying tight, you hit your own. and losing an action in that case is sometimes the thing that messes you up.

I like that the rule as it is. It keeps it even across both sides. higher position fires first, which in some cases can be a one shot kill or at least sets that targeted ship to be dropped. I even sometimes if I have a heavily wounded ship, send them on a crash course to mess up movements.

The point I am saying is that though a higher skill pilot losses his action, its because he SHOULD have known where that rookie as going to go and not crash into him.

Yes moving into a void is nice if you can anticapate that void or if the other player does not move another ship into that void.. boosting is nice if your fighter has that capability, target lock is an action that any pilot can use, you dont have to be higher skilled you just have to move in the right order. If your Wedge and you move last an your move causes you to hit one of the ties already moved, there is no target lock. the point being that your 7 levels of skill difference is not worth a hill of beans if he cant avoid that touching, I refrain from using collision or contact in that any collision betwen two objects in space is probably fatal for both.

It is a subject that can be discussed forever, but something we as players just live with and work around, better options maybe, who knows.

OK if you don't believe me about target lock, take some PS 1 A-Wings with missiles and try to get useful shots off. TLs don't mean a thing if the model you are planning on shooting at is not in range after you finish your move or moves out of the way after you TL.

StevenO touched on this but it came up three times in my last 4 games(it cost me one of those games) so I'll repeat it. There is a lot of advantage in moving last. if you have two X wings facing each other at about 4 speed away, the higher PS pilot will be able to K-turn, and most likely shoot while the other will have to choose a different maneuver, and likely won't get a shot this turn. You have to take the good with the bad in this case, but in a lot of ways, you'll have more options in terms of maneuvers since you know where the opponent is vacating, and areas of the board they can't go.

Just as a thought, knowing full well it would do a lot of damage to the Tie Swarm...

What if overlapping didn't cause you to lose an action? I mean other then removing blocking as a viable tactic, wouldn't this make high PS pilots even better but not make low ones any worse?

Just a thought here.. as I agree with much of what has been said.. it is what it is.. but what about this..

A high PS pilot (6-9) gains the ability to barrel roll off of an overlap, or even boost to get out of the situation, and not lose its action.. Possibly even take a shorted move of the same type.. i.e. a 2 straight instead of a 3 straight as plotted??

or lose the action if that seems fair.

Just an idea. thoughts.. comments??

OK if you don't believe me about target lock, take some PS 1 A-Wings with missiles and try to get useful shots off. TLs don't mean a thing if the model you are planning on shooting at is not in range after you finish your move or moves out of the way after you TL.

I do understand target lock and the associated problems, but just because you move last is not a guanantee that you will be in a position to use it. After all the guy who is moving first is thinking the same thing, how do I move to prevent the TL.

OK if you don't believe me about target lock, take some PS 1 A-Wings with missiles and try to get useful shots off. TLs don't mean a thing if the model you are planning on shooting at is not in range after you finish your move or moves out of the way after you TL.

I do understand target lock and the associated problems, but just because you move last is not a guanantee that you will be in a position to use it. After all the guy who is moving first is thinking the same thing, how do I move to prevent the TL.

The thing is a High PS pilot know where the enemy models are when it takes the TL action so you can choose a model that is in your arc and know you are going to get to use the TL. A low pilot has to TL and then the other ships move. It has no way of knowing where the pilot is going to be at the end of it's move.

Agreed it is all a turkey shoot.. you have to out think your opponent and try to guess where he is.. all these dog fight games are the same in that respect.. you both have valid points.. it isn't guaranteed where the target or the aggressor will end up

Personally I think the mechanic works wonderfully.

It's up to you to plan your moves in a way to avoid collisions. Movement is the most important part of this game, and there isn't an easy button for that. You need to learn the moves and anticipate well or you're going to have issues.

If you want a fluff reason, imagine Wedge is focusing on that tie fighter in front of him when an interceptor cuts him off he wasn't expecting, in the confusion and distraction of not exploding in a fireball with the Interceptor he loses that target lock on the tie fighter he was trying to manage...

The fluff also works in that sometimes those rookie pilots just do the weirded and unexpected things if your experienced pilot gets caught off guard by a sudden movement he's going to lose that action.

Don't blame the mechanic for you choosing a bad manoeuvre with your higher end pilots.

Just a thought here.. as I agree with much of what has been said.. it is what it is.. but what about this..

A high PS pilot (6-9) gains the ability to barrel roll off of an overlap, or even boost to get out of the situation, and not lose its action.. Possibly even take a shorted move of the same type.. i.e. a 2 straight instead of a 3 straight as plotted??

or lose the action if that seems fair.

Just an idea. thoughts.. comments??

I like this idea. I think the idea of having a skilled pilot be able to respond to the stupid academy tie would make sense. I don't know about boosting or barrel rolling though, I like the idea of adjusting the movement by 1. Maybe it should be an EPT

I think that would make a great Elite Pilot Talent.

its not always the higher position craft. sometimes you're the same number but you don't have the initiative or sometimes if your not used to flying tight, you hit your own. and losing an action in that case is sometimes the thing that messes you up.

I like that the rule as it is. It keeps it even across both sides. higher position fires first, which in some cases can be a one shot kill or at least sets that targeted ship to be dropped. I even sometimes if I have a heavily wounded ship, send them on a crash course to mess up movements.

The point I am saying is that though a higher skill pilot losses his action, its because he SHOULD have known where that rookie as going to go and not crash into him.

Thanks for the dialog; there were a lot of good points made. I can see now how stress may be too harsh a punishment for unskilled pilots. I really appreciated how it was pointed out how it would throw off the point system of the game because ffg didn't intend for the higher psl to have that big of an advantage.

I've never played with a tie swarm, because I only have 5 ties.

I'm more a fan of aerial dogfights than star wars; but this is best aerial fighting game I've ever played; but I love the idea of a veteran ace being able to take out 5 less experienced pilots by himself.

Maybe I'll just learn to deal with the rule how it is.

The combat system highly favors the higher PS pilot, I feel. One of the best uses of the PS 1 pilot is to block however. Without that combat option it would almost always be better to just take your 2-3 highest PS ships and game on- move last, fire first, avoid all negative maneuver situations, kill more ships before they even get a chance to shoot at you. Yep, that's how "aces" work in the "real world" (wherever that is) but there needs to be some balance to this GAME and the blocking tactic is huge not just for swarms but for squad building as well. I almost always choose my PS blocker 1st or 2nd and then build the list around them (blocking is ultra important for blocking your own ships as well).

As it stands now, a more experienced player will get more mileage out of a higher PS pilot. As you get better at the game, PS begins to mean a whole lot more.

PS worth also breaks down at certain levels and depending on what your opponent brings to the table. Spending lots of points on PS 7-9 is a "terrible" point waste when your opponent only brings PS 1-3 to the table. Upgrading your PS 1/2 to 4 is huge though because now you have a lot more information when it comes time to move, taking your actions, and firing first.

Spending 1 extra point on VI to ensure Soontir/Turr/Mauler shoots before a lot of rebel aces is very very worth it but you don't know that until the game state is already set.

Just a thought here.. as I agree with much of what has been said.. it is what it is.. but what about this..

A high PS pilot (6-9) gains the ability to barrel roll off of an overlap, or even boost to get out of the situation, and not lose its action.. Possibly even take a shorted move of the same type.. i.e. a 2 straight instead of a 3 straight as plotted??

or lose the action if that seems fair.

Just an idea. thoughts.. comments??

I like this idea. I think the idea of having a skilled pilot be able to respond to the stupid academy tie would make sense. I don't know about boosting or barrel rolling though, I like the idea of adjusting the movement by 1. Maybe it should be an EPT

I like this also, reducing the movement by 1 is an advantage in that he will still retain his action, but a disadvantage in that he had to react to an unexpected situation and did not get to his optimal position, at least in his mind.

The idea of an EP skill that will allow you to alter your movement dial isn't bad and has some precedent with the Navigator crew card. Part of the question for that would be how/when do you use it. Do you allow someone to test his original move before deciding to alter the dial or are you going to require it "when revealed" which means they could just collide somewhere else even if their original plan actually would have avoided a collision.

The other thing about an EP that alters the dial is that it could be amazing at things BESIDES just avoiding collisions. If you've seen the Fettigator w/ Engine Upgrade you get an idea how much havoc a small ship with that kind of maneuvering options would have. Ok, maybe we don't need to imagine when we can look at the AS equipped B-Wings but now imagine them being able to change speed as well.

As for removing the rule where ships lose actions for overlapping weakening a Swarm it may do that to an extent but it also makes Swarms all that much more dangerous when run by someone who doesn't know how to maneuver them under the current rule. Right now one of the things that can hold back a Swarm is that if you can throw in a speed bump you can completely mess up the actions of just about everyone in a closely packed swarm; it's even better when the enemy does it all by himself. If you allow actions after an overlap now the Swarm player really doesn't need to care about how she flies her swarm because even if six trailing ships all pile into the first one to move everyone would still get actions. Blocking may be a tool used by a Swarm but it can also be a VERY effective tool at dealing with a swarm; they block a ship you lose an action but if you block a ship they may lose many actions when the swarm piles up.