In my oppinion, it should not make bracing totally obsolete.

Would be better if it just lowers the penalty instead of getting rid of it totally (maybe -10 instead of -30).

FWIW, I never saw the need for Bulging Biceps in the first place. Just have its effect "auto-unlock" once you progress past a certain Strength.

Then again, I'm also thinking we do not need Unnatural Traits.

But, in the context of your post, I'd be in favour of this effect merely lowering the penalty rather than removing it entirely. Aside from removing an interesting and realistic combat element (-> bracing) from play, it also feels odd if you go from "cannot control this weapon at all" to "has no problem playing Marbo" with just a single talent purchase.

Sounds good.

But, in the context of your post, I'd be in favour of this effect merely lowering the penalty rather than removing it entirely. Aside from removing an interesting and realistic combat element (-> bracing) from play, it also feels odd if you go from "cannot control this weapon at all" to "has no problem playing Marbo" with just a single talent purchase.

Agreed. Except ofcourse that for once we're not even playing Marbo.

Sgt Harker (Codex Imp Guard, p. 62) appears to be the trope namer for this one.

Mind you, as I recall, no-one* in any of the space marine codices can do this. :-/

* Oblirators don't count.

Right, Harker is probably a better example - I was just thinking of the Rambo movies.

Mind you, as I recall, no-one* in any of the space marine codices can do this. :-/

What about Devastator Marines or Scouts with heavy weapons? I thought it's just a matter of strength - regardless of how you achieve it (biologically, with powered armour, or both).

Space Marines cannot move and shoot heavy weapons in 40k TT. They however don't need a buddy to help carry the weapon either.

I like the -10 for Bulging Biceps. The old Bulging Biceps in Necromunda was -1 to hit.

Thanks, I actually forgot about that.

Maybe that's just some sort of combat doctrine that Harker doesn't care about? With heavy bolters usually used for full-auto suppressing fire and overwatch, whereas he actually runs around and gives short bursts? Not sure how I'd "fluff" it otherwise. In the RPG we can do both, but that's not to say that the minis in the TT are as "liberal" as we are. The abstraction fortunately allows us to look for a variety of theoretical explanations (and this can actually be fun, from time to time).

I come from the school who believes that the only issue of a heavy bolter is its massive weight - hence the nickname "backbreaker" in Necromunda.

In my oppinion, it should not make bracing totally obsolete.

Would be better if it just lowers the penalty instead of getting rid of it totally (maybe -10 instead of -30).

Definitely. The bracing move is seen so rarely as people just don't take heavy weapons until they get Bulging Biceps then you never have too.

-10 with bulging biceps so it's not too bad but still makes the player look for a bracing point sounds good to me.

why not reduucing the penalty by Strength-Bonus*5 ?

Definitely. The bracing move is seen so rarely as people just don't take heavy weapons until they get Bulging Biceps then you never have too.

My experiences mirror your, except:

1) Heavy Flamers. No BS test.

2) Heavies is OW get a HW as starting gear. Only time I've seen a PC bother to brace.

-10 with bulging biceps so it's not too bad but still makes the player look for a bracing point sounds good to me.

Works for me. Certainly better than the curent 'no penalty'.

why not reduucing the penalty by Strength-Bonus*5 ?

People seem so allergic to adding and subtracting, and now you want them to multiply numbers as well?!

You evil man!

*hehe*

It would give strength a little more meaning though.

Sb*5 would make it fairly achievable to eliminate the penalty entirely though. I'd rather a flat -10 with a fairly hefty strength requirement to take the talent (50?)

You'd need Strength 60 to eliminate the penalty entirely - not an easy value to get (usually needs all 4 increases and a good starting value of 40+). For space Marines, it is more easily achievable - but thats ok, as they are steel and they are doom.

And even they can't fire heavy weapons unbraced without being at least kinda hindered, if we go by tabletop, considering Relentless (the rule which lets you move and fire heavy weapons on the same turn) is only really granted to Terminators.

I liked a suggestion made a long time ago to give Bracing a bonus to your BS test.

This bonus would be made relevant for basic weapons as well. Snipers brace their rifles, either on a bipod or some fixed support, and they do it for a reason. It helps aiming.

Of course, the Bulging Biceps would NOT give this bonus.

I liked a suggestion made a long time ago to give Bracing a bonus to your BS test.

This bonus would be made relevant for basic weapons as well. Snipers brace their rifles, either on a bipod or some fixed support, and they do it for a reason. It helps aiming.

We use this method for quite some time (Bracing gives you +20 BS for Basic and Heavy weapons) and Bulging Biceps shorten the time you need to Brace a weapon. It works nicely.

If Bulging Biceps is changed so that it reduces the penalty for firing without bracing to -10, suspensors should be changed as well. I feel like nobody will purchase the talent if there is a weapon upgrade that is objectively better.