If i play fortified position, the first player choose which passive it´s first and can discard my host of the bear? thanks.

Fortified position isn't a passive. It's a constant effect that would affect every character that's in play at the time and every character that enters play while it remains the revealed plot.

If i play fortified position, the first player choose which passive it´s first and can discard my host of the bear? thanks.

As Doulos2k indicated, it's actually a constant that takes effect immediately.

1) Reveal Fortified Position

1a) All characters are now blank

2) Resolve When Revealed

3) Passives

Step 3 is where where Host of the Bear would be discarded. Since they are already blank at that point in time nothing happens.

(Note that initiative is counted and first player determined between 1a and 2.)

Yea. I tend to not actually use the real timing structure steps... I should denote that somehow... Is Comic Sans a font?!?!?!?!

WHY YES IT IS!!!!

I'm just putting my summary here because this has come up for us too:

[Q] If I have Host of the Bear in play and I play Fortified Position do I have to discard Host of the Bear?

[A] No, Fortified Position’s effect is a Constant Effect which is immediately active in step one of the plot framework action when the plot is revealed. The initiative is counted just after that in step two but the character is already blank so it is not discarded.

[Host of the Bear]: Discard Host of the Bear from play anytime your total initiative is 2 or lower.

[Fortified Position]: 0 initiative, Treat all characters in play as though their printed text boxes were blank.

Your result is correct, so if you are not interested in the "technicalities" of the timing, please feel free to ignore the rest of it. I just thought it might be a good idea to write out the "real timing structure steps" alluded to be mdc above because using the informal "Step 1" and "Step 2" as you have in your answer above might cause confusion if you run up against someone using the formal steps.

All action windows go through the following general steps:

Step 1: Initiate

Step 2: Save/cancel opportunity

Step 3: Resolve

Step 4: Passives

Step 5: Responses

Step 6: End (or "clean-up")

A framework action window - like revealing plots - modifies this a little by cycling through multiple Steps 1-3 (one cycle for each framework event) before moving on to a common Steps 4-6. There is also an "exception" to the normal handling of passives in this window in that all "when revealed" plot passives must initiate and resolve before any other passive.

What this means is that the "reveal plots" framework window really looks like this (and you can see why mdc abbreviated it to 1-1a-2-3):

Step 1a: Initiate "reveal plots"

Step 2a: Save/cancel against "reveal plots"

Step 3a: Resolve "reveal plots" ( <-- constant effect plots like Fortified Position go into effect here.)

-----

Step 1b: Initiate "initiative count"

Step 2b: Save/cancel against "initiative count"

Step 3b: Resolve "initiative count"

-----

Step 1c: Initiate "determine first player"

Step 2c: Save/cancel against "determine first player"

Step 3c: Resolve "determine first player"

----

Step 4a: Resolve all "when revealed" plot effects (FP determines order if necessary)

Step 4b: Resolve all other passives initiated because of things that happened in Steps 1a - 4a ( <-- This is where you would check the text on Host of the Bear against the new initiative count; but it was blanked in 3a, of course.)

Step 5: Responses to anything that happened in Steps 1a - 4b (and earlier in Step 5)

Step 6: End (or "clean-up")

Again, there is nothing wrong with your answer. It is a helpful, and accurate, abbreviation. I just wanted to make sure you knew what was being abbreviated.

Thankyou for the detailed explination. I have a question about what you wrote and a question about naming. If you look in page 22 of the faq you'll see the flow diagram for the Plot phase. And within that there's a box that reads:

Framework action

----------

1. Choose and reveal plots

2. Initiative is counted

3. High initiative player appoints "First Player"

4. "When revealed" plot effects resolve (In order determined by First Player)

Now in your outlined timeline from above you have resolving the when revealed portion of the plot phase as part of the passive abilities, step 4, of the framework action window. That confuses me. I would think it would still be another loop in steps 1-3 because it is listed as it's own Framework Event. So I would have expected to see:

---

Step 1d (1st plot to resolve): Initiate "When revealed plot effect resolved"

Step 2d (1st plot to resolve): Save/cancel against "When revealed plot effect resolved"

Step 3d (1st plot to resolve): Resolve "When revealed plot effect resolved"

repeat for all plots in order determined by first player.

---

Then we move on to what you have listed as 4b. Why is this not the case? Why is the framework event of resolving the when revealed plot effect different from the other framework events?

My naming question is what to call 4 steps in the framework events? Should I refer to them at 1a and 1b? I guess the problem is that "step x" is generally understood to refer to things in the player/framework action window. And the FAQ uses 1, 2, 3 to number the steps in the framwork action window and to list the framework events.

Now in your outlined timeline from above you have resolving the when revealed portion of the plot phase as part of the passive abilities, step 4, of the framework action window. That confuses me. I would think it would still be another loop in steps 1-3 because it is listed as it's own Framework Event.

It is a confusing on a number of levels, and I wish they would remove that extra framework event because of the following entry in the FAQ:

" (2.2) Plot Effect Resolution

Continuous or constant plot effects take effect immediately and simultaneously, as soon as the plot cards are revealed. The first player determines the order in which all 'when revealed' plot effects are resolved. 'When revealed' plot effects are essentially self-referential passive effects that initiate in response to the revealing of the plot card with the 'when revealed' effect. They are resolved (in the order determined by the first player) during step 4 of the action window in which the plot card was revealed. All 'when revealed' plot effects must resolve before any other passive effects initiated by the revealing of a plot card(s) are resolved."

So you can see that, based on this entry, "when revealed" plot text actually takes place in Step 4 (Passives) of the action window - with primacy - rather than in their own Steps 1x-Step 3x. The FAQ entry is actually pretty important because it definitively shows that "when revealed" text is a passive result of the plot being revealed, so when a plot is revealed outside the framework "reveal plots" framework window, you still get the "when revealed" effect because you don't need a framework event to tell you when to resolve it.

My naming question is what to call 4 steps in the framework events? Should I refer to them at 1a and 1b? I guess the problem is that "step x" is generally understood to refer to things in the player/framework action window. And the FAQ uses 1, 2, 3 to number the steps in the framwork action window and to list the framework events.

There is no formal convention for this. When people write it out, they try to keep "Step 1" associated with "initiate," "Step 2" associated with "save/cancel," etc. because of the general action window names/associations. So what I have above (which maybe should have been 1.1, 2.1, 3.1 --> 1.2, 2.2, 3.2 --> etc. to correspond with the framework event numbering on the flow charts) is what a lot of people do informally, but there is no "official" designation for this kind of detailed timing description.

I just wanted to prepare you for the possibility that you could say "Step 2: Count Initiative" and be met with a confused stare and the comment, "I thought Step 2 was cancels?"

Interesting, thanks for the clarification I totally dig the detailed info and appreciate the heads up on the nomenclature. I would much rather be corrected like this then go about using the wrong terminology. I’m a big believer in creating good and consistent names for things.

I think this is a good example of where the information is in too many places within the FAQ. The fact that the part on the timing doesn’t properly explain it and without knowing the info is back in 2.2 I wouldn’t have found except by accident or when reading through the FAQ. Even if they didn’t have the entry in the framework events for revealing the plot leading me astray I still would have had a hard time finding that it actually resolves as a passive ability with priority over other passive abilities.

Thanks for all the help ktom J