I don't like it.

• The Influence requirements make no sense. First, let's look at the Inquisitor elite advance. That requires 75 Influence. From that, we can assume that even the most lowly of Inquisitors are at or above the 75 mark. Now look at the requirements to call in an Eversor Assassin. 60. Significantly below even the most junior of Inquisitors. And yet, in the fluff, it officially takes a High Lord of Terra to approve an Assassin's deployment. Often Lord Inquisitors of the Ordo Sicarus break that rule, but it's absolutely not within the power of someone who's probably a junior Interrogator at best. Also, a Canonness, someone who commands at least several squadrons of Sororitas, is significantly easier to acquire the help of than a fairly typical Tactical Marine? What?
• Why does it cost Influence to acquire the help of these guys? I can understand it from a balance point of view, but I don't really see the fluff justification. It doesn't seem to make much sense to me that you're damaging your reputation by using your assets. Do the other Inquisitors gossip about you?
• Why is the bar set so high? The 'cheapest' Reinforcement is a Cannonness. This makes the system totally useless for low level play. Where's the option to, say, call in an Arbites team when the group's a bit beyond their depth? Storm Troopers? This system would benefit from low ranking options, a lot.
• Finally, my biggest issue with the system; why is it based around recruiting singular individuals? I think the system would be much more fun if it had more of a focus on the whole party taking the role of Reinforcement characters for a session or two. Call in a Deathwatch strike team to clear out a Genestealer infestation, or a squad of riot shield toting Arbitrators clearing out a hab block. I'd find that a **** lot more interesting than the current system, but bringing in a whole squad of Reinforcements is prohibitively expensive as is.

The biggest problem is that the system is Mathematically innaccurate! The Deathwatch Marine or the Temple Assassin should have an Influence of 130 required to call and 13 spent to deploy according to the guidelines on pg. 246. Hardly a jr. Inquisitor to call at that level!

For what it's worth, it kinda makes sense if you consider GW's original material about the Inquisition operating almost entirely on influence alone - which, in practical terms, is not absolute everywhere (case in point: Space Marines) - and that other Inquisitors as well as various Imperial organisations may notice and take offense to the players requisitioning valuable assets left and right, which, at the end of the day, won't be available to where they are usually needed, or indeed to other Inquisitors. Their responsiveness may be affected accordingly, although I still feel this should be represented by multiple reputation scores, rather than a single general Influence stat. For a game so hilariously complex and rules-heavy as Dark Heresy to dumb down the political stuff this way seems ... weird, and not very fitting to the theme.

And yet, in the fluff, it officially takes a High Lord of Terra to approve an Assassin's deployment.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and speculate that this is just yet another detail where FFG's version of the setting conflicts with GW's.

Finally, my biggest issue with the system; why is it based around recruiting singular individuals? I think the system would be much more fun if it had more of a focus on the whole party taking the role of Reinforcement characters for a session or two. Call in a Deathwatch strike team to clear out a Genestealer infestation, or a squad of riot shield toting Arbitrators clearing out a hab block. I'd find that a **** lot more interesting than the current system, but bringing in a whole squad of Reinforcements is prohibitively expensive as is.

Hmm, I recall reading about the Reinforcement system being set up in a way that supposedly allows players to "play" these requisitioned assets themselves - basically, temporarily slipping into the skin of whatever they ordered. If the system is intended to support this playstyle, I'd say it would do this job nicely.

Not that I agree about this playstyle being a good idea in general, though. Aside from me agreeing with Tom Cruise regarding the recruitment of entire squads of NPCs being a cool aspect, which would fit nicely to the Inquisitorial theme, I also find myself questioning whether it's really that smart to allow a single individual player to basically play some uberspecial Superman for a single session, outshining everyone elses abilities, rather than at least allowing the entire party to temporarily discard their characters for a squad of whatever specialists they requested.

Even if the party would pass this limelight position around so that everyone gets to enjoy it some day, temporarily being turned into sidekicks sounds like a frustrating thing to me, especially for a game whose content is already segregated into specialist scenes. Imagine you've got a combat situation coming up and your Arbitrator or Guard Veteran or whatever gets all hyped up because finally he or she can show off, then someone else pulls a Space Marine out of their sleeves. Whoo-ho!

Not to mention how apparently all those individual people are just standing by, ready to leave their post to hitch a ride on some transport because someone on the ass-end of the galaxy requested 1 (ONE) agent of an organisation that is used to operating in units.

Sister: Mylady, the Inquisition has requested your help.

Canoness: Very well, send Sister Ginevra and her squad.

Sister: No, they .. um, they have asked specifically for you, m'lady. No one else.

Canoness: ...?

Now, this may just be me, but a system that would support the requisitioning of entire squads, beginning with more basic assets (including local forces) would sound much more amenable - not only because it circumvents the above two "problems", but also because it frankly sounds more fitting for the entire theme.

You know that bugs the hell out of them that the canoness gets dump on as the **** reinforcement. First off all with that low of stats that is best served for a newbie sister of battle. Secondly a canoness is a leader of a entire order of battle nuns. How in the hell can lowly acolytes summon some one who is bad ass enough to be a canoness? That is flat out impossible. It is like mere police officers asking for a five star general from the military. Not going to happen.

This could be a matter of interpretation as well. From my observation, Battle Sisters in this version of 40k are generally not as badass as they are in the original material, and instead used sort of like "slightly more elite cannonfodder". If you've been keeping tracks of their presence in the books, their number in the Calixis sector has centuplicated ever since FFG took over from Black Industries (50 in IH, thousands in BoM).

Still funny/interesting/intrigueing that they went straight for a Canoness instead of at least saying Legatine or Palatine, given that those ranks are somewhat more likely to see solo action away from their usual posts. Almost looks as if someone wanted to make a point.

I just find it insulting to battle nuns in general. I mean other than space marines they are the most elite army that Imperium has. It should reflect that.

They are nuns in fancy armour...still human, still the exact same as Imperial guardsmen, they are NOT anything special.

Other than they are the militant arm of the church, and under the control of the church, that is it.

Imperial Guard, Nuns, Naval Troopers..they are all basic humans, the only thing different about them is equipement, and who controls them.

I never liked the fact they were tooted about as being something special, they are not anything special, SpaceMarines are the Elite troops of the Imperium of Man and none other.

As for the system : They obviously want it as a spendable resource, so you can keep earning it. plus they are trying to make a simplified system that covers the basics enough.

I think they are attempting to set it out in a way that makes it a favour being called in, because lets face it the reality of the Holy Ordos is rather dull and boring if they implement it pure cannon,

Inquisitor Agents :"OK I want this, that and I'll take 5 squads of your best troops while I am here."

General : "Hmm, Well you have the authority, and I cannot refuse you, take what you want."

Game terms : Never roll, never requisition, just ask and receive.

So they have to do something, and while its current iteration might be a bit clunky it is a system that is workable. I think a dual system would be better, One side your influence is spent, but it does not vanish, it re-accrues over a fixed period of time, and a burn system, where it really is gone for good, but it gives much more powerful rewards.

Training is the difference with Sororitas. Their training is on the level of Storm Troopers at least , considering the Sororitas do 90 percent of their recruiting from the Schola Progenium. Plus, that 'fancy armour' goes a long way. High quality power armour and bolters puts them a pretty large step above even the most high ranking of Guardsmen.

Plus, given faith is a real and tangible thing in the 40k setting, their religious status is important. Acts of Faith are a thing that have real world effects in 40k, so they should be considered.

I agree that sororitas are very much elite troops that can be compared to Storm Troopers.

As they own even better armour and a steeled faith, they might even be a little more than Storm Troopers.

But they are in no way comparable to His Chosen. No discussion.

" They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them and in the furnace of war forge them. They shall be of iron will and steel sinew. In great armour I shall clad them and with the mightiest weapons they will be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight them. They shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear. "

— The Emperor of Mankind

And now, with all respect for the sororitas, no more words of heresy !

Tom,

I would say that I disagree with you in theory, but agree in practice.

Although the idea of the system is great, it needs a lot of work.

To begin with , I believe it should not only present an option for requesting the support of squads or even battalions, but that should be the focus for it.

It is much more likely to have an Inquisitor requesting the assistance of a IG regiment thant a DW kill team.

That said, I understand that you loose influence from calling these reinforcements because you "burn bridges", so to speak. Influence, both in real life and in game, is a resource, that you spend for calling in favors or pushing people around.

And BTW, it's insane to think of Sororitas as just "female IG with Power Armors" (not that this wouldn't be terrifying by itself). They are the second most elite fighting force of the Imperium, with Storm Trooper training, fanatical devotion, almost unbreakable morale and those Powers Armors we've mentioned before.

Were I a heretic, I would not want to cross them.

Of course, Astartes would go through most of them like wheat, anyway.

The Sororitas have eradicated entire chapters before, so I wouldn't underestimate the nuns with guns too much.

The sororitas are without any doubt one of the (if not THE) elite troops of "regular" mankind.

But the Astartes...they are more than mortals. They are steel and they are doom !

And they fall down if you pump enough bolter rounds into them.

I agree that sororitas are very much elite troops that can be compared to Storm Troopers.

As they own even better armour and a steeled faith, they might even be a little more than Storm Troopers.

But they are in no way comparable to His Chosen. No discussion.

I just find it insulting to battle nuns in general. I mean other than space marines they are the most elite army that Imperium has. It should reflect that.

I don't see how these statements are incompatible, nor why people are so up in arms.

Snowman0147 specifically excluded the marines, implying (to me atleast) that they are in a category of their own.

Which seems to be the whole of Gaunt's argument.

Seriously people!

THEY ARE DOOM.

THEY ARE DOOM.

They are the angels of death, Agreed. I have also never quite understood how the Sisters could destroy an entire chapter unless it was mere remnants of it's former self. (But it at least was canon).

My biggest problem with the reinforcement system is that it is Mathmatically innaccurate. I like the way the system works as it is intentionally a simplification of a convoluted political process that happens behind the scenes for the most part. I think the intention was in fact that the players could ALL play a reinforcment character! I might also require an influence roll to see if the forces in question are even available.

Thank you Tenebrae. I had stated that battle nuns are number two of the common forces in Imperium. They are the only humans with power armor and bolters for every soldier. They have faith powers to back them up. Last they are the most trained soldiers in imperium other than space marines. Even with all that I had never said they were female space marines.

Also Tom I feel perhaps you are viewing the system wrong? and I shall explain so as not to cause offence.

I think the reason there is no Arbites, Storm Troopers, Naval support etc etc, because they are always available if the situation requires it, it is basic troops for Inquisition use, no need to spend influence. No Inquisitor is going to say no, when his acolytes come back and say "We are going to need some troop support to take this building, Sir."

The current system we have here is them requisitioning support from very special units, Cannoness, Imperial Assassin, DeathWatch SM.

And so you only have a finite amount of req to spend, making them as rare as it should be for an intervention of such magnitude.

Anything else, I fully expect the GM to OK the group saying to their Inquisitor we need support, and then the GM can decide what is avaliable to them, because the GM has all the info on what they are up against, and you do not need a rule book to say "Sure, your Inquisitor has OK'ed 3 squads of Arbites under the command of an officer who will liase with you,"

This system is a potential get out of jail card with a cost attached.

"As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion."

- GW Website

Of course it's a matter of interpretation, and the performance of the Battle Sisters varies immensely all depending on which source you are reading, with sometimes hilariously gigantic differences between their portrayals. Whilst the original material tells us that "even whole Space Marine Chapters have been declared heretic and been exterminated as such by the Adepta Sororitas" (6E Codex) and their equipment is "the equal of any Space Marine Chapter" (3E Codex), these versions of the Sisters of Battle are contrasted mostly by the many popular Black Library novels, where they often take on the role of antagonist or, at best, a merely semi-useful sidekick. One of the best examples for this treatment is the Space Marine novel "Blood of Asaheim", where .. oh, I'll just link to this short review , whose bitter tone at least makes it somewhat funny to read.

Some of the above comments lead me to believe that the "less badass" version of the Battle Sisters is actually preferred by at least a portion of the playerbase - and maybe even part of FFG's design team, which would go a long way of explaining their treatment here.

I guess it is a mixture of both personal preferences, as well as the material we have "grown up with". In my case, it was Codex fluff and issues White Dwarf, but I'm going to assume a lot of gamers here are more accustomed to the various novel interpretations.

I think the reason there is no Arbites, Storm Troopers, Naval support etc etc, because they are always available if the situation requires it, it is basic troops for Inquisition use, no need to spend influence. [...]

The current system we have here is them requisitioning support from very special units, Cannoness, Imperial Assassin, DeathWatch SM.

Special units ? The weird thing to me is that a lot of these forces actually do operate as units, yet here you are apparently supposed to request them individually.

That aside, personally I wouldn't consider Arbites, Storm Troopers or Navy assets "always available" - but this, too, is a matter of interpretation. Either way, would it not be better to support their recruitment with a mechanic when you already have a system in place to do exactly this? What's to prevent the Acolytes from always keeping their own personal frigate loaded with companies of Storm Troopers in orbit, ready to drop on a moment's notice, just because they can? Yes, that's a far-fetched example, but where would you draw the line?

Look I tried to make it as simple as possible,

When ever the party is in a situation where aid is required, or going to be allowed by a GM who is running the campaign, and knows what they are going to be dealing with, Standard Imperial units are always available in the sense of if aid is needed, none of them institutions have the clout to say no, or be realistically in such short supply that you cannot just go requisition some.

As for the characters in the current reinforcement listing, they are of several magnitudes HIGHER power level than standard troops and as such getting hold of them should be difficult, and to show that difficulty mechanically and in the simplest fashion, they have designed this current system, for us to beta test.

You should try and see it in that context, and then it all makes sense.

A group of low to mid level acolytes getting help from an Imperial Assassin should be a **** big deal, same for the rest, if you are in a campaign where a Death Watch kill team is needed, then simply do what my GM did last time, have them roll up the Marines, and then they play them in that interlude where they are needed, then once it is done, they go away and out come the acolytes again. But if you are needing such level of troops to progress your campaign regularly then something is wrong with the campaign.

Thanks for assuming we're just too stupid to see the wisdom in your opinion, and for ignoring the issues raised in the previous posts.

A group of low to mid level acolytes getting help from an Imperial Assassin should be a **** big deal, same for the rest, if you are in a campaign where a Death Watch kill team is needed, then simply do what my GM did last time, have them roll up the Marines, and then they play them in that interlude where they are needed, then once it is done, they go away and out come the acolytes again.

And wouldn't it be nice if the system would actually support such improvisation?

Special units ? The weird thing to me is that a lot of these forces actually do operate as units, yet here you are apparently supposed to request them individually.

That aside, personally I wouldn't consider Arbites, Storm Troopers or Navy assets "always available" - but this, too, is a matter of interpretation. Either way, would it not be better to support their recruitment with a mechanic when you already have a system in place to do exactly this? What's to prevent the Acolytes from always keeping their own personal frigate loaded with companies of Storm Troopers in orbit, ready to drop on a moment's notice, just because they can? Yes, that's a far-fetched example, but where would you draw the line?

The Reinforcement system actually agrees with you Lynata. There are guidelines within for purchasing basically, any reinforcement unit. Thus a Squad of Stormtroopers Should have a required influence of 30 to call and a cost of 15 influence to deploy (3 apiece). This explains why they would be one of the first options to player reinforcment. This works ok for small scale incursions but fails to note what would happen if a player playing an Actual Inquisitor wanted to say, declare Exterminatus or even start a crusade to retake a world. How would that work? It's certainly within the Inquisitors purview! This is my only problem with the reinforcement system as it exists now. It seems Mathmatically wrong. Also: If I request the aid of say, The Canoness of a SoB convent, does she bring to bear all the resources at her disposal? (The whole convent!) If not why would you ask the Canoness at all? What would her likely response be after all? "Inquisitor Yorkel is demanding that we purge a nest of Hertics from underhive level 4c-L226. I'll just go handle it myself!" Really? I don't think so! More likely her response would be more like: "Sister Revara; You will take 3 squads of battlesisters and support the arbites in cordoning of the area. I will take two squads of Seraphim and three more squads of battle sisters and be will purge L226 with flame to the ground!" (Hope the Acolytes aren't there at the time! )

Oh, so the system is set up more like a modular kit, and the list of options are merely examples ? Okay, that changes things.

Still, it seems it could use some clarification.

Oh, so the system is set up more like a modular kit, and the list of options are merely examples ? Okay, that changes things.

Still, it seems it could use some clarification.

I agree and this is what I've been saying! If I request the aid of a DW kill team leader would he not bring his kill team? (Thus allowing the players to each play one of the team.) Still, The math is wrong! Said Kill team sergeant should be needing at least an influence of 130 to call and the team must spend 13 influence points to get him! (Not 7 which would be more appropriate for a Standard SM). Also, by keeping the influence costs up where they belong you guarantee that the character is in at least the same scope of influence as an Inquisitor (If not the Inquisitor himself!). This would also make sense if said character brough his/her assets with them. An IG Colonel would cost about the same as our aformentioned Canonness or SM but he brings with him an entire Regiment of IG. Of course, at this point the Gm declares that the game has now been converted to one of "Only War" until the crisis has passed and the Acolytes go hide under rocks until it's over! The same would also be true of the Canoness or a SM Captain (Which would far be more expensive!). The loss of influence would then be justified at least in part by the amount of Collateral damage the PC's brought to the area with their little Escapade! After all, Space marines and Battlesisters (Not to mention whole regiments of IG) are going to blowing up and burning everything in sight!!