My Mileage indeed varies considerably! I have seen players horde their fate point as you say "just in case". I have also seen flung around like theirs no tomorrow! I don't particularly have a problem with Role based special abilities or the use of fate points to tripper them but if you're not going to use them than what instead? Once per game session? I've seen that in other 40k lines (RT comes to mind) but it is not universal. What would suggest instead?

I think you've touched upon a good point here, including the wider problem I see of random fate points for starting characters.

Given there increased importance in the game, I feel it would be much better to just give all characters the same starting fate points (like 3) and then make the other abilities balanced.

More specifically to your point, what if fate points gave you two pools, defence points (used for rerolling evasion, healing from stunned, healing wounds, e.t.c.) and offensive points (every other use). This way there is no need to horde fate points (although it might become a little too strong when a player has 4 or more fate points).

I think you've touched upon a good point here, including the wider problem I see of random fate points for starting characters.

Given there increased importance in the game, I feel it would be much better to just give all characters the same starting fate points (like 3) and then make the other abilities balanced.

More specifically to your point, what if fate points gave you two pools, defence points (used for rerolling evasion, healing from stunned, healing wounds, e.t.c.) and offensive points (every other use). This way there is no need to horde fate points (although it might become a little too strong when a player has 4 or more fate points).

This is just complicating things though. I like the idea of giving meaningful abilities that use fate points so that players will have hard choices to make. "Do I use a fate point for my ability or save it.......just in case".

Over here, we don't use Fate Points in most of our games and simply change all FP related abilities to once per session. Maybe the FP reliant role abilities could use such a change too.

I'm not even sure that special abilities are even needed to be honest. It's more of a perk than anything. Not all abilities like these ones have to be super useful. They are just helpful and nice to have in certain situations.

I'm not even sure that special abilities are even needed to be honest. It's more of a perk than anything.

It's nice to give players options though. Combat in dark heresy can be a little one note on occasions and this is a way to mix it up (not the only way of course, but a welcome one nonetheless).

I'm not even sure that special abilities are even needed to be honest. It's more of a perk than anything.

It's nice to give players options though. Combat in dark heresy can be a little one note on occasions and this is a way to mix it up (not the only way of course, but a welcome one nonetheless).

They don't necessarily have to deal with combat though. They should give flavor to the game in my opinion and set each role apart from each other.

I'm not even sure that special abilities are even needed to be honest. It's more of a perk than anything.

It's nice to give players options though. Combat in dark heresy can be a little one note on occasions and this is a way to mix it up (not the only way of course, but a welcome one nonetheless).

They don't necessarily have to deal with combat though. They should give flavor to the game in my opinion and set each role apart from each other.

True. I'm a big fan of the abilities that let a role complete it's role without a dice roll (like the seeker one). I can see AtoMaki point though, that making it a once per session ability rather than a fate point spend would also work.

I'm not even sure that special abilities are even needed to be honest. It's more of a perk than anything.

It's nice to give players options though. Combat in dark heresy can be a little one note on occasions and this is a way to mix it up (not the only way of course, but a welcome one nonetheless).

They don't necessarily have to deal with combat though. They should give flavor to the game in my opinion and set each role apart from each other.

True. I'm a big fan of the abilities that let a role complete it's role without a dice roll (like the seeker one). I can see AtoMaki point though, that making it a once per session ability rather than a fate point spend would also work.

Agreed.

This is just complicating things though. I like the idea of giving meaningful abilities that use fate points so that players will have hard choices to make. "Do I use a fate point for my ability or save it.......just in case".

I tend to be in this camp. Special abilities, in my experience, tend to become overused if they are not balanced out against other choices.

This is just complicating things though. I like the idea of giving meaningful abilities that use fate points so that players will have hard choices to make. "Do I use a fate point for my ability or save it.......just in case".

I tend to be in this camp. Special abilities, in my experience, tend to become overused if they are not balanced out against other choices.

Hard choices tend to make for more dramatic and memorable game play / role playing.

My Mileage indeed varies considerably! I have seen players horde their fate point as you say "just in case". I have also seen flung around like theirs no tomorrow! I don't particularly have a problem with Role based special abilities or the use of fate points to tripper them but if you're not going to use them than what instead? Once per game session? I've seen that in other 40k lines (RT comes to mind) but it is not universal. What would suggest instead?

Aye I’ve seen them both too, the latter tend to live hand-to-mouth for Fate Points (always hoping they get back at least 1 Fate Point before ‘that moment’ hits) and tend to die faster than everyone else. Though it doesn’t means its not fun watch them though.

If you played pre-4th Edition D&D please keep the jest to a minimal.

…In the time it took me to post this, it went from 2 posts to 11.

I've never been a fan of the idea of using Fate Points for other abilities, just because their normal use is already very useful. Yes, you could say that presenting a player with such a difficult choice is a challenge all by itself, but at the same time you are penalising them for their special ability tapping into a resource that would find other use as well. Every FP spent on a special ability is a FP not available for other stuff.

Maybe this is just because I'm one of those "hoarders" Radwraith referred to, so my own gameplay was even more affected by this than other players', but I feel that an independent perk should use an independent resource - if it does not, it is merely an "upgrade" to Fate rather than its own stuff.

I can see why some people would actually prefer it this way, however (to sort of "balance" these special abilities to regular characters), so it probably comes down to personal preferences and how each of use their FP in practice.

Alternatives like "once per session" or "once per encounter" are easy to implement and easy to keep track of, though they are of course just one solution.

I've been writing on a total re-write of how Faith works, and what I ultimately came up with was tying a character's pool of Acts of Faith directly to their spiritual purity. This is touching upon another and semi-independent mechanic now, but think of this purity as if it were "Negative Corruption", and every 10 points mean the character may attempt to trigger 1 Act of Faith.

I think this connection not only serves to stress the power of spiritual purity (= ignorance and conviction) in the setting, but also serves to create an additional incentive for certain characters to avoid Corruption at all costs, as it directly affects their ability to use AoF.

Obviously, for characters whose special ability does not hinge on faith, other models of governing their mechanics should be investigated, but I think it could be very interesting to think of the various options and conditions.

I'm actually a big fan of alternative uses of Fate Points for roles. My issue with them, though, is that 'spend fate to pass' is really ******* boring. It's not a remotely compelling mechanic, and in many situations is fairly broken. I say keep special Fate uses, but make them more interesting than they are currently.

Nothing wrong with being a hoarder Lynata! I just like the idea of some specialized uses for Fate points. The Assassin's special damage rule jumps to my mind. The Assassin puts his mind body and soul into that on "Perfect" shot. Of couse this is something he does with his actual target and not just some random obstacle or Mook! Thus He spends a FP when he has his target in the proverbial crosshairs. Combined with talents and accurate weapons this can make for a pretty hyper deadly attack! But it is likely only going to be once and one could say that The Assassin has used a good deal of his "Luck" taking out that master level opponent at all!

I'm actually a big fan of alternative uses of Fate Points for roles. My issue with them, though, is that 'spend fate to pass' is really ******* boring. It's not a remotely compelling mechanic, and in many situations is fairly broken. I say keep special Fate uses, but make them more interesting than they are currently.

Now this I agree with. I would prefer abilities that enhance success rather than guarantee it!

I just like the idea of some specialized uses for Fate points. The Assassin's special damage rule jumps to my mind. The Assassin puts his mind body and soul into that on "Perfect" shot. Of couse this is something he does with his actual target and not just some random obstacle or Mook! Thus He spends a FP when he has his target in the proverbial crosshairs.

I guess it's a matter of which direction we come from when looking at Fate, so to say. I "grew up" with Fate Points being a very generalised mechanic that did not differ between characters at all, and now it is expanded into also featuring specialised perks depending on the class.

So it may very well just me being someone who is generally sceptical of changes, and I might have had far less of a problem adjusting to this use of FP if it had been there from the very first moment.

See the reason I like the specialised uses is BECAUSE it sets the various Roles apart. As it stands, with an open advancement scheme, any character can achieve pretty much any role regardless of their origin, with a little effort. Having some real, useful mechanical effects tied to your origin path is nice, it helps define a character as a bit more unique than they otherwise would be in such an open system.

I'm with Lyanta I think, except possibly more so.

Re-rolls are too useful, so I consistently de-select/ignore talents and abilities that cost FPs to activate.

Garantees succes is boring, and besides I'd rather have a decent probabilty aqnd the option of a re-roll (activated after I've failed, obviously) than a garantee of succes.

Despite being named for G1, I must admit I have strong sympathies with G4.

But maybe that's related to me considering strong role-segregation ("character classes") unrealistic, clumsy, un-necessary and rude to players.

That said, if there must be abilities, please don't base them off of faith points.

Almost nothing I've seen in the co-far-published marterial have been worth spending an FP on.

Maybe if everyone had piles of FP, on the order of 8+ per character, but since that's not the case, re-rolls are almost always the best choice available.

I'm G1 but as we're on what's wrong with fate points can I add using them as lives? why is it that as I level up my fate pool drops? Ok I can see few ways to explain it like my luck runing out but it's still me getting weaker as I should be getting stronger.

Last beta got me thinking we could roll a d5 for fate points at the start of each session get them in play more often as we can't keep them and find a new way to cheat death.

Any takers?

I'm G1 but as we're on what's wrong with fate points can I add using them as lives?

I thought this was taken for granted!

I just assumed every player leaves at least 1 FP in reserve just to escape death.

Or are you referring exclusively to FP already burned for this purpose? If so, I would have hoped a GM introduces opportunities to get them back somehow, at least if this "get out of death" card was not easily abused. This may be more of an issue with the GM than the basic system, mayhaps?

You have to go a long way to compete with a 'reroll' that's available post-screwup.

In games I've GM-ed, even the other universal uses of a fate point - bonuses to tests, adding degrees of success, etc, tend not to get much use compared to rerolling a test that you didn't expect to fail.

The only other one that tends to see much use is Killing Strike in Deathwatch (because I regularly threw genestealers at the players and it's the only way of hitting the buggers half the time).

Big variation in uses of fate points is something I must say I didn't mind in Black Crusade - the differences in Infamy Points available to variously aligned heretics helped really underline their different talents. I had a plaguemarine spend three infamy points in a row as he literally walked through the combined volley fire of an entire company of imperial guardsmen....