So... misunderstandings all around. *chuckles*

For the record, in American English, the phrase "some of you people..." while in the context of an individual conversation comes across as a passive-aggressive attack, even if it isn't directly targeted. I should know better than to assume that's always the case, though, so that's as much my fault as anything.

Ah well. Such is the nature of talking over text. Hopefully we can both still enjoy this conversation and future ones, Dante.

Enter the Unknown came across as a bit light when I pulled it out of the box, but I have to admit, it has a whole lot more in it than the 90 or so pages suggest. Overall, what really has my attention are new Specializations, specifically Big Game Hunter and Archaeologist. (Driver does nothing for me.) In fact, I find myself wishing my role wasn't GM-by-default so I could play an Archaeologist.

Enter the Unknown is pretty sweet, I have to admit. My players are really digging the new equipment, and believe it or not Driver is becoming perhaps the most popular specialization at the table. The party Pilot wants it to continue augmenting his piloting abilities (a lot of that stuff still works in space), the party Trader wants it so he doesn't have to buy a cross-career specialization to augment his piloting abilities from Fringer, the party Thief wants it because he recently stole a souped-up airspeeder from an assassin droid, and the party Gadgeteer wants it because he has rocket boots and wants to cheese the game with Master Pilot (I'm still thinking about this one lol).

(It should be noted that the party is using a Wayfarer-class freighter known as the Lazy Bantha, so they have plenty of room for starfighters, airspeeders, swoops, walkers, and pretty much any space or planetary vehicle they want.)

Personally, my favorite part was species stats for Toydarians! I've always been a fan of them, and ever since I saw their King attempt to fight Darth Maul's brother Savage Opress on The Clone Wars I've been itching to play a Toydarian soldier of some kind.

Did anyone else notice that Toydarians have a "hidden" ability? According to their description they're immune to all forms of Force-powered mind control. It's not just about their high Willpower, apparently.

I saw that about toydarins. I'm trying tk write a review on enter the unknown... but with a 9 month old it is difficult. To sum up (no time to esplain) I think this is one of the many things that will show that force using characters won't overshadow non-users. That and the necessary expenditure of experience. By force users I mean on a scale of Jedi in the prequels and clone wars series.

Not in THIS game anyway, wherin one's Force Rating is capped at 2. In Force and Destiny, I'm sure the cap will be closer to 5, if not 7.

Well, technically there is no cap, just no ways to further increase it. I know, semantics, but that only an issie if your a anti-semantic. Age of rebellion you can get it up to three. Which for someone self taught/ no formal training is pretty good.

In any case, they're handling the Force-users vs. non Force-users thing by making a separate game for full-on, balls to the wall badass Jedi, Dathomiri Witches, etc. I think that's genius, honestly.

Yes but keep in mind that their intention is for all games to integrate as seemlessly as possible. So characters from each game of the same XP level will be equivilant if not exactly the same power. I want my Force-users to be cool because they use the Force, not because the Force makes them better than everyone else. A bounty hunter/gadgeteer of 500 XP will be just as relevant as a jedi/guardian of 500 XP. I like the build of the signature abilities as they are modeled on the Force powers and allow careers to define themselves more much like Force powers can define Force users.

The games are supposed to integrate? AWESOME. I have a player on the fence about a Force-user at any point in the future, so I'll be glad to allow him to play something else when the time comes. In any case, I'm having fun keeping the Force restricted to non-Jedi stuff for now. The only Force-user in my group is the Doctor, who also happens to be the princess of a pacifistic Twi'lek clan descended from a Jedi Master who died in the thought bomb at the end of the Battle of Ruusan 1000 years ago. Since then, members of the clan's royal family have avoided the Jedi Order, instead naturally developing their powers with a focus on seeing into the future.

It's light, it's atmospheric, and it's not overpowered at all. I hope that Jedi are just as balanced when they come out, but regardless I expect players to look at Jedi abilities, swoon, and end thus end up with a party of Jedi. Its happened at least once in every edition of Star Wars I've run in the last 13 or 14 years lol.

What I'd REALLY like to run is a party of REAL Jedi, as in not a bunch of on-the-fence gray and dark siders. Being a Jedi isn't nearly as restrictive as people think. I've always found it odd that so many people love playing paladins in D&D, yet they somehow think that Jedi are more restrictive. Jedi come in all shapes and sizes with all kinds of interpretations of the Code; often, the only thing that really unifies them is a desire to help people and end conflicts.

What I'd REALLY like to run is a party of REAL Jedi, as in not a bunch of on-the-fence gray and dark siders. Being a Jedi isn't nearly as restrictive as people think. I've always found it odd that so many people love playing paladins in D&D, yet they somehow think that Jedi are more restrictive. Jedi come in all shapes and sizes with all kinds of interpretations of the Code; often, the only thing that really unifies them is a desire to help people and end conflicts.

Well, next August you'll have the Force & Destiny Beta, and around Summer 2015 you'll have the F&D core rulebook. At that point, you've got your "real" Jedi.

The problem with Jedi in most Star Wars RPGs is that many players simply play Jedi as "glorified thugs with psychic powers and laser swords," as the mechanical constraints to keep such players in check are either poorly understood or poorly implemented, particularly as "what qualifies as an Evil Act?" isn't as well defined in the rulebooks as it sometimes should have been, and there's been a lot of arguments based upon whose morality is used to determine if a course of action is 'evil' or not.

Oh yay. Can we have the paladin and alignment debate, please? Hopefully there will be no Dark Side mechanic or if there is, something more narrative.

Being a Jedi isn't nearly as restrictive as people think. I've always found it odd that so many people love playing paladins in D&D, yet they somehow think that Jedi are more restrictive.

While I haven't played a Jedi in the FFG engine, we did an old Republic padawan game with WEG - and we all had a blast. We played a little fast and loose with the Jedi structure (our interns were away from their masters probably way more than should have been logical), but as far as .restrictions and story limitations - naw, we saw none of that. There were moments of angst as bad guys tried to woo them to the dark side, but beyond that, we were not a group of stuck-up do-gooders.

We had a bookworm, a large bruiser (who probably liked violent solutions a bit too much), a martial artist who was a secret "Who watches the Police" watchman and mine - who was more a game show host or used car salesman than a Jedi.

Well, next August you'll have the Force & Destiny Beta, and around Summer 2015 you'll have the F&D core rulebook. At that point, you've got your "real" Jedi.

I'd be surprised if we get F&D by summer 2015. The movie isn't going to be out until December and I wouldn't think they could really release the full version before the first movie and be able to delve into what becomes of the Jedi post Battle of Endor.

Well, next August you'll have the Force & Destiny Beta, and around Summer 2015 you'll have the F&D core rulebook. At that point, you've got your "real" Jedi.

I'd be surprised if we get F&D by summer 2015. The movie isn't going to be out until December and I wouldn't think they could really release the full version before the first movie and be able to delve into what becomes of the Jedi post Battle of Endor.

A lot of the post-Endor stuff is covered by books and comics already. Disney spent $4 billion on the Star Wars franchise including the Expanded Universe, so I doubt they'll just retcon everything. More likely, they'll just set the movie ahead of the current novel so that it conflicts with canon as minimally as possible. It'll do them no good if Star Wars fans have their lore cut nearly in half just for one film; us fans keep the mythology alive, and thus keep the property valuable. That's not to say that continuity should hold the filmmakers in a stranglehold, but they'll still take steps to avoid contradicting it where possible. The Yuuzhan Vong invasion will probably have a lot of retcons, but other than that I predict things will stay as they are for the most part.

I think FFG already said that the F&D beta will be released at the same time as the AoR Core, and then the F&D Core released the next year (presumably at Gen Con.)

The movie isn't going to be out until December and I wouldn't think they could really release the full version before the first movie and be able to delve into what becomes of the Jedi post Battle of Endor.

Eh, it didnt slow West End Games down any, only having the three to work from. Their force system was perfectly functional, despite Episodes I, II and III not being out yet.

Aren't they keeping F&D still within the OT timeframe?

Aren't they keeping F&D still within the OT timeframe?

Nope. It'll be after Return of the Jedi, because the Jedi have uh... returned lol.

Aren't they keeping F&D still within the OT timeframe?

Nope. It'll be after Return of the Jedi, because the Jedi have uh... returned lol.

Right and it speaks of "Destiny" which generally implies future. Which is why since it will deal with what comes after I would be surprised if it is released.

FFG may have said what they did also before the movie release date was moved back. Even if the movies are taking place 30 years later what Luke actually did isn't going to be the ideas of various licensed literary properties anymore, it's going to be set down by film, and that can't possibly take everything that's been written into account. I am not saying it's impossible so before anyone gets frothy and nasty I am not looking for anyone to get angry, I am just saying with the canon about to receive a serious infusion in 2015 I'd be surprised if F&D is released before the film.

It wouldn't surprise me if F&D came before ep VII. Nowhere has it been said or implied that it will base itself on the new films, all three game series have been presented as happening within the original trilogy time frame. Obviously they'll borrow from EU, clone wars and the prequel trilogy, but as far as I've understood, based on what little has been said in interviews and the like, F&D is for playing force users during the reign of the Empire. Additionally I think FFG was not aware of new films being released or planned when they got the license and planned the game(s).

Oh yay. Can we have the paladin and alignment debate, please? Hopefully there will be no Dark Side mechanic or if there is, something more narrative.

I agree that a more narrative approach would be better than a "dark side score" system. It's likely one of the main reasons that FFG decided to hold Force & Destiny as the last core rulebook in the series, giving them plenty of time to try out different options and see what does and doesn't work.

If nothing else, there should at least be a chapter similar to Chapter 2 of the RCR "Power of the Jedi" sourcebook, which went into pretty hefty detail about how a proper Jedi (at least as of the Ruusan Reformations) should act, including the very solid advice of "Ask the player the following: If you take away the lightsaber and Force powers, leaving only a monk-like individual that's committed to acts of public service, would you still play a Jedi?" I've implemented it, and it's helped cut down on the "psychic murder-hobo with a glowing sword" cases quite a bit.

Aren't they keeping F&D still within the OT timeframe?

Right now, nobody really knows for sure that's not employed by FFG or hasn't signed an NDA.

A lot of the talk from the FFG design team has been that their focus is on the Rebellion Era and by extension the Galactic Civil War, but the books have enough wiggle room that a GM can set a campaign either during the Dark Times or the very early years of the New Republic era without much problem, especially for Edge of the Empire. I'd suspect that much like WEG, a lot of the focus is going to be on that three-year time frame between the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Hoth, with the Rebellion gaining ground and the Empire trying to crack down on the populace even more.

I think FFG already said that the F&D beta will be released at the same time as the AoR Core, and then the F&D Core released the next year (presumably at Gen Con.)

Actually, I'd suspect the Age of Rebellion core rulebook to be released sometime around May (which was when the EotE core rulebook was originally slated for release), giving folks a few of months to get their mileage out of that system before the F&D Beta gets dropped at GenCon 2014, with a speculative release of that core rulebook being May 2015.

One of the complaints that folks had about the release of EotE's core rulebook and AoR's Beta was that they were too close together, and that some were still digesting the EotE material when they suddenly had the AoR material thrust at them.

Aren't they keeping F&D still within the OT timeframe?

Right now, nobody really knows for sure that's not employed by FFG or hasn't signed an NDA.

A lot of the talk from the FFG design team has been that their focus is on the Rebellion Era and by extension the Galactic Civil War, but the books have enough wiggle room that a GM can set a campaign either during the Dark Times or the very early years of the New Republic era without much problem, especially for Edge of the Empire. I'd suspect that much like WEG, a lot of the focus is going to be on that three-year time frame between the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Hoth, with the Rebellion gaining ground and the Empire trying to crack down on the populace even more.

I'm inclined to agree with you. And as regards a post-RotJ setting, if we're talking about say, the first decade or so (and I'm no EU junky so my numbers may be off), it's not like they'd have to give us all brand-new tech and setting material. They could very easily just say, "okay, the Death Star II's been blowed up: go nuts, Jedi!"