Just got the book today, and I'm sorry to say I kind of feel like I should have gotten more for my money. It was half the price of the base book and I got about 20% of the content. I understand it shouldn't be a direct correlation like that, but I think fifty more pages would've done this book well.

The people that write the fluff need to talk to the people that write the stat blocks. Toydarian's resistance to force manipulations are in their physiology write up, but not their stat block, and the E-11s description mentions their limited ammo capacity - and points out how rare it is for a blaster to have one - but nothing's listed in the stat block. I don't think the E-11s needs the limited ammo quality, or even the triple threat option like the heavy blaster pistol, but it seems odd to leave that in the description.

The lack of "big game" also seemed like a strange decision. The droids are cool, but I feel like they could have been left for another book. Actually, those plus some stuff in the GM section I think could have been used for a true Game Master's Guide. I mean, does it really make sense to have a section about making memorable NPCs in a book about exploration?

I liked the Who Becomes Explorers section, but I think there should have been Things/Places to Explore. Three adventure seeds? I'm sure there's a planet or two an author hasn't fleshed out yet.

I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings, but the book just seems poorly thought out to me.

Now for the nit-picky things. I'm not too bothered by these, they just jumped out at me as I was reading.

• Why does an archeologist need Pin? Also, pin says nothing about me having to stay there to continue the pin if I roll enough triumphs. That might be on purpose; I could see someone knocking over a bookcase they were using as cover to pin down a guy that came close enough to engage them in melee.
• Did someone complain about slug throwers being weaksauce in the core book? The Model 38 is pretty darn cool. Side question: do you as a GM have to worry about spare clips? As in do players have to keep track of blaster clips and slug clips, or is it a formless clip until it has to be used?
• Vibrospear seems weak compared to a vibro-axe and it costs more. Not a bother to me, though.

Just got the book today, and I'm sorry to say I kind of feel like I should have gotten more for my money. It was half the price of the base book and I got about 20% of the content. I understand it shouldn't be a direct correlation like that, but I think fifty more pages would've done this book well.

The people that write the fluff need to talk to the people that write the stat blocks. Toydarian's resistance to force manipulations are in their physiology write up, but not their stat block, and the E-11s description mentions their limited ammo capacity - and points out how rare it is for a blaster to have one - but nothing's listed in the stat block. I don't think the E-11s needs the limited ammo quality, or even the triple threat option like the heavy blaster pistol, but it seems odd to leave that in the description.

The lack of "big game" also seemed like a strange decision. The droids are cool, but I feel like they could have been left for another book. Actually, those plus some stuff in the GM section I think could have been used for a true Game Master's Guide. I mean, does it really make sense to have a section about making memorable NPCs in a book about exploration?

I liked the Who Becomes Explorers section, but I think there should have been Things/Places to Explore. Three adventure seeds? I'm sure there's a planet or two an author hasn't fleshed out yet.

I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings, but the book just seems poorly thought out to me.

Now for the nit-picky things. I'm not too bothered by these, they just jumped out at me as I was reading.

• Why does an archeologist need Pin? Also, pin says nothing about me having to stay there to continue the pin if I roll enough triumphs. That might be on purpose; I could see someone knocking over a bookcase they were using as cover to pin down a guy that came close enough to engage them in melee.
• Did someone complain about slug throwers being weaksauce in the core book? The Model 38 is pretty darn cool. Side question: do you as a GM have to worry about spare clips? As in do players have to keep track of blaster clips and slug clips, or is it a formless clip until it has to be used?
• Vibrospear seems weak compared to a vibro-axe and it costs more. Not a bother to me, though.

Being critical for a moment, I feel like pages 69-96 could have been put to better use. Speaking for myself, I don't need ideas and all that content from those ideas is basically just rambling useless not even fluff......I dont want to say it is worthless..but basically it kind of is worthless. Now to be fair it does say on the back of the book there is info for GM's.

Ultimately I would prefer all of that content in a GM type book..

I just hope we don't get that type of content over and over in every source book...assuming we get 6 ish sourcebooks that means we going to have a 30 page GM guidance in every book..again I hope not. If we get 18 sourcebooks over the 3 core books we are now looking at 480 pages of GM guidance..

For me if those pages were filled with pre-built cantinas, swoop gangs, ISB front, mercenary forts, small town, droid repair shop etc...that would be useful GM stuff.

I would also like some more concrete GM stufc in the game. I hope the bounty hunter book has a random bounty generator table for instance.

Personally I feel the correlian human species is a bit of a cop out. Should we expect subsets of species in the future instead of actual new official species? I just feel it's a bit cheapened to not add more desirable species than expanding on one existing species when more would be appreciated in the official columns or will this the end of publishing species and now we will see subsets.

Personally I feel the correlian human species is a bit of a cop out. Should we expect subsets of species in the future instead of actual new official species? I just feel it's a bit cheapened to not add more desirable species than expanding on one existing species when more would be appreciated in the official columns or will this the end of publishing species and now we will see subsets.

Two things.

1. Wrong book. EtU has 3 new races.

2. That last sentence???

Personally I feel the correlian human species is a bit of a cop out. Should we expect subsets of species in the future instead of actual new official species? I just feel it's a bit cheapened to not add more desirable species than expanding on one existing species when more would be appreciated in the official columns or will this the end of publishing species and now we will see subsets.

I believe it was appropriate for the book. Approximately 1 page of content, so either way I'm ok with that as well. Whether this book had 2 or 3 racial options... wouldn't have mattered, I personally would have purchased it anyway. Selonians are in and that is cool on so many levels.

I've been playing it over a month and I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the Archaeologist specialization. It has a few flaws. The focus on knowledge is okay but not nearly as good as Scholar. The focus on brawn, basically the entire left side of the tree, doesn't mesh well with other Explorer specializations (namely with respect to Piloting). Even the artwork shows the Archaeologist using a ranged weapon. That being said, I would be okay with the left side of the tree if they changed the artwork and made melee an Archaeologist bonus career skill.

The right side is essentially a boring rearrangement of Scholar talents. Except for Museum Worthy, which is probably the lamest unique 25 point talent there is. 25xp for a talent that lets you do a knowledge check to get information (once per session!). Whoever thought of that must be some kind of genius. Getting information is the point of knowledge skills. You don't need a 25 xp talent to use them.

To give the designers the benefit of the doubt, they might have intended the talent to mean you can use Education in place of Lore. The problem with that is all Explorers get Lore, and the Archaeologist can even double up on it during character creation because it's one of their Bonus skills. Basically, if you're an Archaeologist, you already have lore (and if you don't you're better off spending the 25xp to get it).

Museum Worthy is about as awesome as Familiar Suns! Which is to say, not at all awesome.

I've been playing it over a month and I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the Archaeologist specialization. It has a few flaws. The focus on knowledge is okay but not nearly as good as Scholar. The focus on brawn, basically the entire left side of the tree, doesn't mesh well with other Explorer specializations (namely with respect to Piloting). Even the artwork shows the Archaeologist using a ranged weapon. That being said, I would be okay with the left side of the tree if they changed the artwork and made melee an Archaeologist bonus career skill.

The right side is essentially a boring rearrangement of Scholar talents. Except for Museum Worthy, which is probably the lamest unique 25 point talent there is. 25xp for a talent that lets you do a knowledge check to get information (once per session!). Whoever thought of that must be some kind of genius. Getting information is the point of knowledge skills. You don't need a 25 xp talent to use them.

To give the designers the benefit of the doubt, they might have intended the talent to mean you can use Education in place of Lore. The problem with that is all Explorers get Lore, and the Archaeologist can even double up on it during character creation because it's one of their Bonus skills. Basically, if you're an Archaeologist, you already have lore (and if you don't you're better off spending the 25xp to get it).

Yeah, I have to say. As much as I like the idea of playing as an Archaeolgist, it would simply be for a story hook, there is not a lot of stuff that really intrests me in the talent tree. I was planning on a Force Sensitive Archaeolgist as my backup guy if my main character gets shot in the head. Which the way I play him is a very real posibility.

I like Archaeologist (except for the excremental Museum Worthy).

As for lack of Melee, well, perhaps that's what Well Rounded for the bargain price of 5xp is for.

I don't know if I agree. Of course, 25xp seems quite expensive, it is set for a difficult check, and on top of that there is no real great pay-off mentioned in the description. So, if you would take it at face value there is nothing that really makes it worthwhile to take it. As others have mentioned it also uses education instead of Lore, but... there is always a but... this might be a good thing.

If I was the GM would run it as follows; Archeologist uses his Knowdlegde Lore to find out something about a certain object and either passes or doesn´t but can then draw upon his Knowledge Education to either still pass the test (when he didn't make the lore check) or make a greater discovery about the object/relic/ruin then he would have by using just the initial check. In this way you could downgrade a daunting lore check to a difficult education check as well should you need to.

Now, and this is very important I think, it is the GM's job to make it especially worthwhile for the player. That ruin might look like a bog-standard Rakata temple but for some reason it is located on a planet where there was no Rakata activity recorded and it shaped somewhat different as well. This is a major discovery that will grand you a mention in a scientific journal and will allow you to earn extra credits because of it.

This ability really needs a good Gm to make the best of it.

Now, and this is very important I think, it is the GM's job to make it especially worthwhile for the player. That ruin might look like a bog-standard Rakata temple but for some reason it is located on a planet where there was no Rakata activity recorded and it shaped somewhat different as well. This is a major discovery that will grand you a mention in a scientific journal and will allow you to earn extra credits because of it.

This ability really needs a good GM to make the best of it.

I like this in theory, but if the Rakata were not meant to be there, that sounds like a plot point that should crop up during play - the players should trip over the fact no matter what, or you've created a story element that could potentially never see the light of day due to a poor roll. The talent, to me at least, jeopardises the my chance to experience a sense of mystery.

It was a good example - that's the kind of thing I'd enjoy discovering during any exploration adventure.

I understand my example wasn't the best one... I made it up while typing.

I understand my example wasn't the best one... I made it up while typing.

Liar! It was a very good example.

We must unlearn, what we have learned.

Dante's example brings up something I think is of importance. As a GM for this game, abilities like the one mentioned have a great impact on the story. A GM need not flesh out every detail. Perhaps, this ability allows the players to choose the form of the destroyer. Just no large and moving Torgs.

If a gm had a temple that was supposed to be one thing, and the player used this talent to say its a sith/rakata/whatever temple instead, gm should go with it. Change the amcient droids into sith ghost possessed statues.

That's kinda badass. Not sure it's worth 25xp (plus the route to it), but it's badass never-the-less.

Yeah, I'm sort of thinking the same thing Blasted and Dante.

While normal knowledge checks allows the PCs to figure out information, do research and see what they "remember" from experience and education, the Museum Worthy talent could put some of the decisions in the player's courtyard, allowing him to make certain assumptions that then are real facts, based on research, inference, theoretical assumptions and stuff like that - in addition to being a sort of "re-roll" ability of any other knowledge check. This should of course be approved by the GM, but the GM should also facilitate and cooperate (help) in this.

Of course this shouldn't override mystery and the plot, nor should it be a check that is needed to discover the next step in the story, but it can certainly add to the whole story, divert it and even add mystery.

The Rakatan temple could be the result of some ancient pacifist Rakatan movement that fled to this planet, only to be killed by the natives or whatnot, cue mystery and dangerous native/predators (or some cannibalistic elite Rakatan spec ops team hunted them down and ate them all, only to be stranded and regress to an animal like state). Of course this fact might not be what the PC knows (he knows only that it differs from the usual Rakatan conventions and that it is outside the known Rakatan Infinite Empire's sphere of influence), but it is what opens that venue of research and exploration. I mean think of it like a Triumph adding fun elements to the story, although it's packed into a talent and doesn't require a Triumph. It could also be a powerful synergy with the Sudden Discovery signature ability.

I see a snag*. This means players who know more about the expanded universe will get more out of this version of the talent than the uninitiated.

* I'm not trying to be dismissive here - bringing out this talent's potential can only be a good thing - I just want to help iron out any bumps.

I am not that much of an EU buff myself to be honest.

And I don't see a real need for this... I can imagine that you could use it to:

- Reveal a potential secret entrypoint into the temple that was supposedly a regular feature the Archeologist recalls.

- Double or triple the worth of an artifact that is found because of significant features he notices are unique to this piece.

- Make a certain aspect of the future adventure more predictable or clearer for the players (this could be used to reel the players in and have them find out what they might be up against early because of the Archeologists findings)

Imagine, to sidestep SW a bit, The Fellowship of the Ring enter the dwarven mines and finding the clues they will run into a Balhrog and can thus prepare for that because of the writings Gandalf finds on the wall.

I see a snag*. This means players who know more about the expanded universe will get more out of this version of the talent than the uninitiated.

* I'm not trying to be dismissive here - bringing out this talent's potential can only be a good thing - I just want to help iron out any bumps.

But it can also be good for the person who doesn't know anything about the EU to add something they want to see in a game, without contradicting anything really.

I'm all for player empowerment, and if this talent, even once, got player more invested into the game because it lets them change the story, I'd say its worth the xp.

Definitely, lack of SW Lore could be a snag, but this is where the GM should step up and help, but also as Dante touches upon, the facts known might be of a more technical or practical nature rather than directly lore related

For instance, the typical variations of the Rakatan temple constructions would indicate secret entrances "here" and "here", but we should also be aware of traps of this or these kinds, and security droids armed such and such. Considering the variations in this site, it would be safe to assume that the secret entrances are probably located "there" and "there", whereas the usual sites will be traps or dead ends. Also, this site might have non-lethal security measures instead of the usual lethal, as per the thesis "On temple construction in ancient space faring cultures" by Rayndar Hook and Thurub Meamb.

Definitely, lack of SW Lore could be a snag, but this is where the GM should step up and help, but also as Dante touches upon, the facts known might be of a more technical or practical nature rather than directly lore related

For instance, the typical variations of the Rakatan temple constructions would indicate secret entrances "here" and "here", but we should also be aware of traps of this or these kinds, and security droids armed such and such. Considering the variations in this site, it would be safe to assume that the secret entrances are probably located "there" and "there", whereas the usual sites will be traps or dead ends. Also, this site might have non-lethal security measures instead of the usual lethal, as per the thesis "On temple construction in ancient space faring cultures" by Rayndar Hook and Thurub Meamb.

Hahahahaha, I think what is funny is how we went from "It kinda sucks, but you could still make it work if you do such and such" to "Wow, I actually could see myself be an archeologist in this game" over the course of this discussion!

Of course, it should be said that it's probably a difficult talent to make full use of. It's a challenge both to the player and the GM to introduce these things, use it and make it feel useful for the story and session. It's easy enough here on a forum to make up examples, but doing this during play is something else and not as easy, but players should also be aware of their responsibility here I guess, not just using talents like this to gain knowledge from the GM, but actually take an active part in the unfolding of the story. This is where I would put more responsibility on the player, this I suspect discourages abuse and encourages creativity, at least with my players (I hope). It's a fine line to walk here, but done right I think it could be really cool.

I like Archaeologist (except for the excremental Museum Worthy).

As for lack of Melee, well, perhaps that's what Well Rounded for the bargain price of 5xp is for.

I am aware of the talent but you shouldn't be forced to spend one of the choices (or even be forced to spend 5xp) on something that should already be a bonus career skill.

We must unlearn, what we have learned.

Dante's example brings up something I think is of importance. As a GM for this game, abilities like the one mentioned have a great impact on the story. A GM need not flesh out every detail. Perhaps, this ability allows the players to choose the form of the destroyer. Just no large and moving Torgs.

If a gm had a temple that was supposed to be one thing, and the player used this talent to say its a sith/rakata/whatever temple instead, gm should go with it. Change the amcient droids into sith ghost possessed statues.

I'm all for cooperative story telling, but nothing in the talent rules suggests that. Furthermore, if the GM and players want a cooerative story, they don't need a talent to do that.

I like Archaeologist (except for the excremental Museum Worthy).

As for lack of Melee, well, perhaps that's what Well Rounded for the bargain price of 5xp is for.

I am aware of the talent but you shouldn't be forced to spend one of the choices (or even be forced to spend 5xp) on something that should already be a bonus career skill.

Something YOU feel should already be a bonus career skill is more like it.

We must unlearn, what we have learned.

Dante's example brings up something I think is of importance. As a GM for this game, abilities like the one mentioned have a great impact on the story. A GM need not flesh out every detail. Perhaps, this ability allows the players to choose the form of the destroyer. Just no large and moving Torgs.

If a gm had a temple that was supposed to be one thing, and the player used this talent to say its a sith/rakata/whatever temple instead, gm should go with it. Change the amcient droids into sith ghost possessed statues.

I'm all for cooperative story telling, but nothing in the talent rules suggests that. Furthermore, if the GM and players want a cooerative story, they don't need a talent to do that.

Well, for one the desctription doesn´t suggest it indeed, however I feel that it is a perfectly reasonable explanation for it and I, personally, don´t need a talent description the size of a tweet to spell out everything for me. Secondly no one advocated using the talent as a cooperative story telling aid only.