Rodent,

The one point difference opens the option of running 5 of those. That's 25pts of hull/shield and 10 attack dice. Given that a tie swarm (24hull / 16 attack dice) can lose a couple of ships before they get to fire at all and suddenly the Advanced doesn't sound like such a bad idea!

Rodent,

The one point difference opens the option of running 5 of those. That's 25pts of hull/shield and 10 attack dice. Given that a tie swarm (24hull / 16 attack dice) can lose a couple of ships before they get to fire at all and suddenly the Advanced doesn't sound like such a bad idea!

OK, I see where your coming from but even then they still have the issue of just not being worth the points. And at any other size than 100.

39 points

Darth Vader

Daredevil, Engine Upgrade, Advanced Sensors

Advanced Sensors would be wasted on Vader as you'd have to skip his Perform Action stage if you used them, and that's explicitly when he gets his two actions.

Rodent,

The one point difference opens the option of running 5 of those. That's 25pts of hull/shield and 10 attack dice. Given that a tie swarm (24hull / 16 attack dice) can lose a couple of ships before they get to fire at all and suddenly the Advanced doesn't sound like such a bad idea!

OK, I see where your coming from but even then they still have the issue of just not being worth the points. And at any other size than 100.

FFG have surely tested all the ships extensively at 100points. I don't believe the Advanced is that far off from being playable. And giving it a PS1 pilot is possibly the only feasible way I can see of fixing it (from FFG's perspective) ... that or giving it a couple of reasonably costed named pilots with awesome skills that would make the bulk of the points worth it.

Here's the thing, if you are only looking at the stats when comparing the Advanced vs the X-wing, it will look unfavorable. You have to remember that the Advanced has 2 additional actions over the X-wing. The Barrel Roll will give the Advanced a slight advantage over the X-wing.

It is true that Barrel Roll and Evade are nice to have, but you are drastically overstating their usefulness if you think that it will actually give the Advanced the advantage over an X-Wing! Lets look at some numbers.

*snipped stats*

And the TIE Advanced has no droid slot, which can also be quite good.

The only thing you're neglecting in the stats is the burst damage the Advanceds will put out at range 3 from missiles. I would lean toward homing missiles for general utility over Concussions, unless you can action stack with the concussions. Anyway, 2 homing missiles tend to knock out an X-wing in the first pass on my experience (Lets assume the target of the missiles is the most expensive X-wing), meaning 4x Advanced's vs 3x X-Wings, and one of those X-Wings is likely without shields or even damaged from the other homing missile. Now the Advanceds can play pure defense and either barrel roll out of arcs, or just plain run evade if there is any chance an X-Wing is going to get shots on them. Once they take out the 2nd X-Wing pure hit points should give the advantage to the Advanceds.

From my experience, in a game of Tie advanced vs X-Wing, the Advanceds all about the effectiveness of that burst damage from the missiles. Score 4 hits with each missile and knock out 2 X-wings by turn 3 and the Advanceds win. Have a poor set of rolls on those missiles and the X-Wings will win.

well, don't forget that the X-Wing runs at the same cost. So if you show up with 4 Advanced loaded with a 4 pt missile each you have to give the X-Wing the same upgrade to do a correct comparison, meaning a torpedo each. All the sudden your first pass is not such a great show for your Advanced, it is quite likely that the Torpedoes will destroy or badly damage one of your Advanced Ties as well, and you are back to 3 X vs 3 Adv, with the X having the superior firepower. The simultaneous Fire rule will even ensure that whoever gets to shot first will see return fire as both sides have the same PS on their ships.

Here's the thing, if you are only looking at the stats when comparing the Advanced vs the X-wing, it will look unfavorable. You have to remember that the Advanced has 2 additional actions over the X-wing. The Barrel Roll will give the Advanced a slight advantage over the X-wing.

It is true that Barrel Roll and Evade are nice to have, but you are drastically overstating their usefulness if you think that it will actually give the Advanced the advantage over an X-Wing! Lets look at some numbers.

*snipped stats*

And the TIE Advanced has no droid slot, which can also be quite good.

The only thing you're neglecting in the stats is the burst damage the Advanceds will put out at range 3 from missiles. I would lean toward homing missiles for general utility over Concussions, unless you can action stack with the concussions. Anyway, 2 homing missiles tend to knock out an X-wing in the first pass on my experience (Lets assume the target of the missiles is the most expensive X-wing), meaning 4x Advanced's vs 3x X-Wings, and one of those X-Wings is likely without shields or even damaged from the other homing missile. Now the Advanceds can play pure defense and either barrel roll out of arcs, or just plain run evade if there is any chance an X-Wing is going to get shots on them. Once they take out the 2nd X-Wing pure hit points should give the advantage to the Advanceds.

From my experience, in a game of Tie advanced vs X-Wing, the Advanceds all about the effectiveness of that burst damage from the missiles. Score 4 hits with each missile and knock out 2 X-wings by turn 3 and the Advanceds win. Have a poor set of rolls on those missiles and the X-Wings will win.

Good point. 4 X-Wings with Torpedoes vs 4 TIE Advanced with Concussion Missiles would be interesting, and is as close to a mirror match as you'll likely get. Concussion Missiles and Proton Torpedoes have the same exact damage distribution if all you do is target lock, so the TIEs would get that slight edge from the extra agility dice.

Ask and ye shall receive.

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3+ hits 4 hits

0.1026 0.8974 0.6587 0.3198 0.0732 Concussion Missile vs 2 defense dice, no focus = 1.95

0.2032 0.7968 0.4790 0.1714 0.0264 Concussion Missile vs 2 defense dice with focus = 1.48

0.1921 0.8079 0.5316 0.2274 0.0458 Proton Torpedo vs 3 defense dice, no focus = 1.61

0.0621 0.9379 0.7614 0.4367 0.1236 Homing Missiles vs 2 defense dice, no focus = 2.26

0.1266 0.8734 0.6031 0.2521 0.0445 Homing Missiles vs 2 defense dice with focus = 1.77

The exact probability distribution for 2 unfocused Homing missiles against a single X-Wing is:

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3+ hits 4+ hits 5+ hits 6+ hits 7+ hits 8 hits

0.0119 0.9881 0.9351 0.7987 0.5721 0.3147 0.1183 0.0252 0.0020 vs 2 dice, no focus

0.0039 0.9961 0.9742 0.9027 0.7492 0.5179 0.2710 0.0927 0.0153 vs 2 dice with focus

Average damage = 3.6 with a defensive focus, 4.14 without. 2 homing Missiles have a 51% chance of killing an X-Wing without Focus. So, yeah, your experience matches the long term statistical average.

An interesting squad is:

Jonus + Squad Leader (24)

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missiles x3 (25)

Who knows what FFG will do? I doubt they even read these forums. I have been thinking of putting together a set of House Rules for balance changes, so this discussion is still useful for that.

Or we could just all be crazy. Yeah, probably that.

They have generally done well, but they got it wrong for the TIE Advanced. I have more confidence in my analysis than in theirs, in this case. They do make games very well and generally this game is very well balanced. On the other hand, I am a PhD candidate in Electrical Engineering, so I probably have a better handle on statistics, and how to analyze these scenarios.

The Advanced is about 2 points away from being playable. Believe it or not, 2 points can make a significant difference, especially if that becomes 8 across an entire squad: that's 2 free Concussion Missiles! If you estimate the X-Wing as having about 25% more damage output / durability than the TIE Advanced, then the PS2 Advanced should cost:

21*(1.25)^-0.5 = 18.7 ~= 19 aka 2 points less.

The 25% is an estimate, in reality it is some weighted average of the above stats plus vs other ship types. So the comparison is not trivial, but that's a very good ballpark number. Incidentally it also fits with the 2 point reduction based on comparing the Advanced stats to the A-wing stats.

Adding a PS1 ship that is also overcosted fixes absolutely nothing.

I'm fairly confident the reason for the 21 point costing of the basic Tie Advanced is to prevent 5 advanced lists. At 20 points each, you could be 5 tempest squadrons which would be the new benchmark for hit points in a 100 point game, excluding 5x Y-Wings which have their advantage in hit points nullified by 1 agility. Its a similar reason why the Academy tie is pointed at 12 points, despite the fact that regression testing of point costs point the standard Academy Tie Fighter at 11 points each.

At 19 points each for a tempest advanced, you could bring either 4x Tempest w/ Homing missiles and have 4 points to spare, or a HP based swarm of 4x Advanced with Howlrunner w/ Stealth & push the limit (focus + evade + stealth for maximum survivability). Given my suspicion that the desire was to keep a list of all Tie Advanceds at no more than 4 ships at 100 points, you should probably be looking at an upgrade to the advanced over a plain point drop. My gut tells me going with 3 shields instead of 2 would be the appropriate change. It would allow for a 27 hp squad at 100 points, but would come at the cost of firepower in comparison to the 24 HP 8 fighter swarm.

Found this from awhile ago:

___________________________________________

Advanced should be dropped 1 pt across the board... even Vader. Yep, people load him up and make him viable, not people would still load him up and he might actually be useful. If you reduce by one and use some of these titles, advanced become pretty fun! If you don't reduce the costs, make these titles cost 1 less (except x7)

Advanced- Lord Vader's x1 (unique): free, add the elite pilot skill upgrade to your upgrade bar.

Advanced- Prototype x2: 1pt, add the systems upgrade to your upgrade bar.

Advanced- Prototype x3: 1pt, your firing arc is increased to 180 degrees.

Advanced- Prototype x7: 2pts, you may use the tie interceptor movement dial rather than the tie advanced movement dial.

Advanced- Prototype Aggressor: 1pt, you have a rear firing arc

Y-wing was close but just released too early. Hwk is a cheaper turret and the awing has missiles and is cheaper so here are a few variants:

Y-wing- BTL-S3: Free, add the crew upgrade to your upgrade bar. You lose the astromech slot.

Y-wing- BTL-A4, Longprobe: 1pt, add the systems upgrade to your upgrade bar. Add missile upgrade to your upgrade bar.

Y-wing- BTL-B: free, if you add no other upgrades/modifications to this ship, reduce it's cost by 1

I really like Awings but they feel just a bit too much. Here are some variants I like that spice it up a little.

A-wing- Rz-1 Interceptor: free, if you add no upgrades or missiles to this ship, reduce it's cost by 1.

A-wing- R22 Spearhead: free, add the crew upgrade to your upgrade bar

A-wing- Mark II: 1pt, your primary weapon firing arc is increased to 360 degrees.

A-wing- Green Leader (unique): free, you may take the boost action even if it would cause you to overlap.

I'm obviously not sure about the point costs. Anything that just adds an upgrade slot should be 0 or 1 and if it does cost points it should be worth more than 1 pt to make up for the fact that some of these ships are around a point over-costed anyway.

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Y-wing was close but just released too early. Hwk is a cheaper turret and the awing has missiles and is cheaper so here are a few variants:

Y-wing- BTL-S3: Free, add the crew upgrade to your upgrade bar. You lose the astromech slot.

Y-wing- BTL-A4, Longprobe: 1pt, add the systems upgrade to your upgrade bar. Add missile upgrade to your upgrade bar.

Y-wing- BTL-B: free, if you add no other upgrades/modifications to this ship, reduce it's cost by 1

I really like Awings but they feel just a bit too much. Here are some variants I like that spice it up a little.

A-wing- Rz-1 Interceptor: free, if you add no upgrades or missiles to this ship, reduce it's cost by 1.

A-wing- R22 Spearhead: free, add the crew upgrade to your upgrade bar

A-wing- Mark II: 1pt, your primary weapon firing arc is increased to 360 degrees.

A-wing- Green Leader (unique): free, you may take the boost action even if it would cause you to overlap.

I'm obviously not sure about the point costs. Anything that just adds an upgrade slot should be 0 or 1 and if it does cost points it should be worth more than 1 pt to make up for the fact that some of these ships are around a point over-costed anyway.

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Regarding the Y-Wings, have you played the 5x Y-Wing w/ 2x Ion Turret build? Its pretty insane due to durability against a huge number of lists. I'd be very careful tinkering with the Y wing too much... 40 HP is still a lot of hits no matter what.

As to the A-Wing, the Green squadron w/ PtL is one of the best fighters in the game, IMO. It trades the extra attack die on an X-Wing and a hull for more predictable offense (target lock + focus), a better defense (3 base defense dice + evade + focus or Boost + focus), an extra pilot skill, a better dial, and a missile slot instead of a torp slot.

I have not played the 5 using build. Still can only get our hands on a few up here. More coming. Maybe. I see your point here but don't think that any of these mods would add too much. Jus give different options on the Ywing.

I disagree about the awing. It's fun to play and usually my last rebel ship standing (when I steal those cruddy ships and use them against those rebel scum!) but mostly because it's just a nuisance and most opponents just leave it till last. It will never take down 2 ships on its own in the end game like an interceptor or a bwing can. Not in any sort of timely manner. Last game I played one I was able to keep it alive for 6 rounds on its own but there was never a chance for it to make a comeback. Again, none of these mods will break the model. Only the 360 arc does anything for its offense. I love to fly a green + PTL but its always just interceptor light to me.

I have not played the 5 using build. Still can only get our hands on a few up here. More coming. Maybe. I see your point here but don't think that any of these mods would add too much. Jus give different options on the Ywing.

I disagree about the awing. It's fun to play and usually my last rebel ship standing (when I steal those cruddy ships and use them against those rebel scum!) but mostly because it's just a nuisance and most opponents just leave it till last. It will never take down 2 ships on its own in the end game like an interceptor or a bwing can. Not in any sort of timely manner. Last game I played one I was able to keep it alive for 6 rounds on its own but there was never a chance for it to make a comeback. Again, none of these mods will break the model. Only the 360 arc does anything for its offense. I love to fly a green + PTL but its always just interceptor light to me.

You use the A-Wing with a concussion missile to get the early damage in, and then just target lock + focus to pretty much guarentee 3 hits at Range 1 (much better than the focus / target lock on the X- wing for me. I'll take 3 guaranteed hits over a shot at 4 hits but a more likely 2 hits). Try this squad to make the best possible use out of the A-Wing:

Wedge, Expert Handling (protect wedge from enemy missiles)

Green Squadron, Ptl, Concussion Missile

Green Squadron, Ptl, Concussion Missile

Prototype

Concussion missiles with PtL typically yield 4 hits and damage is dependent on enemy defense dice. Wedge can usually put a little damage on whatever target you want to kill with a concussion missile. The prototype just blocks, but every once in a while it lands 3 hits on pure luck. Its not uncommon to knock out a target with Wedge + missile and have another ship badly damaged with the other missile. At that point, all you have to do is protect your lead - when in doubt, evade + focus is your friend. You can always target lock + focus when you have the sure shot, but otherwise just play defensively and hope for good red dice.

the Awing is usually your last ship standing because your opponent has no incilnation to actually hunt it down, since it is only mildly annoying at best and there is basically little to no threat from it. Also, it can be quite hard to catch it, given its 3 agility dice and possibility of focus + evade tokens. Since it isnt contributing to the battle, you could pretty much just ignore it, much like a rebel operative HWK without any turret weapons

This is really not the case with a well played A-Wing. A Green generally moves after most basic ships and can boost into close range. An A-Wing boosted into close range does as much damage as a X-Wing at medium range, and is a fraction of the cost (and is also SO much more survivable).

I re-checked the top 8 at Worlds and didn't find an A-Wing, it was 2 Gold Y-Wings that I was thinking about. The above suggestions for rebel ships are interesting, some are possibly unbalanced. A 16 point A-Wing or a 17 point Y-wing would be pretty good. Here was the squad I was thinking about:

The above changes would give 2 more points to play with. You could downgrade a Gold into a Prototype and add Advanced Sensors onto the Blue. Lots of options. Bottom line, I don't know that I would reduce the cost of the Y-Wing. It's also featured very well in the Rebel Convoy build.

Anyway, back to TIE Advanced. 5 PS2 TIE Advanced (25 HP) would be good but not devastating. 3 Bounty Hunters has 30 HP @2 defensive dice. 7 TIEs have 21 HP @3 dice, but with far more attack power (especially with Howlrunner). The rebel list above has 34 HP, 10 @2 and 24@1.

Comparing 4 X-Wings with shield upgrades vs those 5 TIEs is an interesting comparison. The X-Wings would still actually be favored to win, having one ship left at full health, if their average damage outputs were 1.21 and 0.85. If the Advanced could get its attack up to 0.96 then it would be even. That's not factoring in the 5 points that the TIEs could spend on a Homing Missile, so it would probably be about even. Which really means that it's not unbalanced, because in this example the X-Wings took 4 very cost-inefficient upgrades. (4x shield upgrades).

How about simply make the generic TIE/Ad PS 4 with an EPT slot for the same cost. They were supposed to be super rare, they wouldn't be likely to be in the hands of lesser pilots.

You could combine that with a title similar to the Royal Guards Interceptors. TIE/Ad x2, TIE/Ad only, PS 6+ only. This TIE gains the *system* upgrade icon.

Darth Vader would be a true menace with a System Upgrade rather than just everyone's favorite squad leader, Steele might be able to get enough mileage to be worth his points, and the lowly generic TIE would have a PS advantage and the opportunity to pay more points to increase its abilities so that it could go toe to toe with the equivalent number of points in X-Wings.

Anyway, back to TIE Advanced. 5 PS2 TIE Advanced (25 HP) would be good but not devastating. 3 Bounty Hunters has 30 HP @2 defensive dice. 7 TIEs have 21 HP @3 dice, but with far more attack power (especially with Howlrunner). The rebel list above has 34 HP, 10 @2 and 24@1.

I'm not sure the 6x Tie + howl runner list has far more attack power than 5x Tie advanceds. The fighters don't have target lock so they require close formation for best effect which can be difficult to maintain at maximum effect as the game goes on. On top of that howlrunner can get killed. Finally the Fighters will attrition faster than the advanceds, so the firepower may start off higher on the fighters, but it will also drop faster.

I play some solo games using an online rules set.. so it isnt perfect, but I have played a few games of 2 on 2.. X wings and TIE advanced.. and I kill those x wings every time.. use of barrel roll and target lock helps, and like I said the solo rules can be partly to blame..

Last nights game the TIEs lost 1 shield, and the x wings only got off one proton torp, where as my Advanceds got off both cluster missiles... though only 3 hits in 12 dice of those.. so not a hugely contributing factor..

I think what people forget most is that dice are completely random and it doesn't matter how many times you throw out statistics on dice and how they roll you just have to deal with the fact that sometimes they are hot, and sometimes they hate you.. I personally put no stock in any dice statistics, because no matter how many times you say such and such die rolls xxx percent of the time... I see no such actual verification of said statistic.. and I've been throwing dice in games since the mid 70s... dice are dice and they roll as they will.. no statistic will make them roll the way you want them too..

The variables are in the material they are made of how they hardedned or dried, even the amount of paintnin the numbers or symbols... how you throw them and what surface you roll them on.. and no one has the statistic for all those variables.. I find those statistics useless, and never proven true.

I'm not sure the 6x Tie + howl runner list has far more attack power than 5x Tie advanceds. The fighters don't have target lock so they require close formation for best effect which can be difficult to maintain at maximum effect as the game goes on. On top of that howlrunner can get killed. Finally the Fighters will attrition faster than the advanceds, so the firepower may start off higher on the fighters, but it will also drop faster.

2 dice + focus + 1 free reroll vs 2 defense dice = 1.11 average damage.

2 dice + focus vs 2 defense dice = 0.85 average damage.

So, ballpark numbers, on the first pass...

Swarm damage = 1.11*6 + 0.85 = 7.5 damage

Advanced damage = 5*0.85 = 4.24 damage

Going head to head (3 defense dice):

2 dice + focus + 1 free reroll vs 3 defense dice = 0.81 average damage.

2 dice + focus vs 3 defense dice = 0.61 average damage.

2 dice + focus + 1 free reroll vs 3 defense dice w/ focus = 0.31 average damage.

2 dice + focus + 1 free reroll vs 3 defense dice w/ focus = 0.23 average damage.

The TIE firepower may attrition faster, but they also have more redundancy. Just for kicks I simulated it. 7 TIEs vs 5 Advanced. I got rid of Howlrunner, so all ships do the same damage. 21 HPs across 7 ships vs 25 HPs across 5 ships.

The TIEs win with 2 ships left over. Here's the results in tabular form.

edit: table really didn't paste well. Just take my word for it or recreate in Excel yourself.

The above is obviously just an approximation, but it's a ballpark enough result to show that 5 Advanced is NOT overpowered relative to 7 TIE Fighters. And, the Advanced Squad costs 95 for 5 ships @ PS2 vs 91 points for 7 ships @PS3. The above table doesn't take pilot skill into consideration, it assumes simultaneous focus firing until a ship dies.

I think what people forget most is that dice are completely random and it doesn't matter how many times you throw out statistics on dice and how they roll you just have to deal with the fact that sometimes they are hot, and sometimes they hate you.. I personally put no stock in any dice statistics, because no matter how many times you say such and such die rolls xxx percent of the time... I see no such actual verification of said statistic.. and I've been throwing dice in games since the mid 70s... dice are dice and they roll as they will.. no statistic will make them roll the way you want them too..

The variables are in the material they are made of how they hardedned or dried, even the amount of paintnin the numbers or symbols... how you throw them and what surface you roll them on.. and no one has the statistic for all those variables.. I find those statistics useless, and never proven true.

A set fair dice (or "completely random" as you put it) have a known probability distribution function. Dice being "hot" or "cold" fall somewhere within this distribution. If you know of a way to roll dice a certain way, or weight / paint the dice somehow, or on some surface, such then you no longer have fair dice, and I suggest taking this information with you to the craps tables. Otherwise, the dice are true and the long term averages will converge to the PDF. Statistics 101.

I would reduce the cost Vader by 1, reduce the cost of the other Advanced by 2, and give the PS4 Advanced an EPT slot.

You probably still wouldn't see them alot, but they would now become marginally useful (especially as missile carriers), rather than being complete garbage in a competitive environment.

I think what people forget most is that dice are completely random and it doesn't matter how many times you throw out statistics on dice and how they roll you just have to deal with the fact that sometimes they are hot, and sometimes they hate you.. I personally put no stock in any dice statistics, because no matter how many times you say such and such die rolls xxx percent of the time... I see no such actual verification of said statistic.. and I've been throwing dice in games since the mid 70s... dice are dice and they roll as they will.. no statistic will make them roll the way you want them too..

The variables are in the material they are made of how they hardedned or dried, even the amount of paintnin the numbers or symbols... how you throw them and what surface you roll them on.. and no one has the statistic for all those variables.. I find those statistics useless, and never proven true.

A set fair dice (or "completely random" as you put it) have a known probability distribution function. Dice being "hot" or "cold" fall somewhere within this distribution. If you know of a way to roll dice a certain way, or weight / paint the dice somehow, or on some surface, such then you no longer have fair dice, and I suggest taking this information with you to the craps tables. Otherwise, the dice are true and the long term averages will converge to the PDF. Statistics 101.

I'm not saying I have a special way of rolling dice.. lol.. if I did you can count on it, that I'd be in vegas..

I have several friends and have known many people over the years who constantly tout these dice statistics, and in one night I prove their statistics wrong.. I just find them useless and inaccurate.. I know they should have some reasonable probability of correctness, I'm just saying I have never seen it.. point in case.. I spent 2 hours rolling a set of about 20 d10 dice, and sorted out the ones I liked for their high rolling properties.. and against all die rolling statistics I roll consistantly higher with these than with other store bought dice... so much so that I have had people comment on them and how they roll and that I may have altered them.. I did not, and I had a couple witnesses to my selection process.. just how I see it.. experiences may differ.. but as I said, I have never seen a die roll off according to any conventional statistic..

and in one night I prove their statistics wrong..

No actually you don't. You can't prove them wrong in one night, because that one night is far too small of a sample size to be considered proof.

The idea that dice roll on a bell curb is far too well proven for it to be considered anything but a fact.

The d10's you mention, are quite likely not true, as in they were manufactured with some sort of flaw that changes how they roll.

Juggler,

Why do you erm.. focus on focus so much in your calculations? Its hard on the numbers, but if you take an offensive stance, take target locks for your attacks. Sometimes you'll net the exact same results as focus (you'll get to reroll blanks at the cost of rerolling focus), and sometimes you'll net all hits, allowing you to save that Target lock for a future round. This can be especially useful when at rage 3 where its unlikely you'll take damage without the focus to fall back on.

Overall, i do find value in your numbers (I'm sure your spreadsheet blows the doors off of my mine), I just feel like giving you a bit of a challenge as I haven't found the Advanced to be so bad it needs a 2 point drop. I wonder if there is something that I'm doing in my games that is hard to model with the math.

I honestly don't think cost reduction is the issue here, I feel the rarity of the ship and how it was used makes the current cost accurate. Besides, not many use it anyway.. if this is due to the cost so be it, but I find it a fun ship to use.

Tonight is game night and I will try to use a flight of pure x1s in my games.. most likely with a combo of engine upgrades and cluster missiles. I'm hoping to get in a few games and will mix it up and see what works best..