Seems like Vader is the obvious candidate for Expose (as well as Daredevil), he's the only one that can sacrifice an action since he has two. Never seen an Exposed Vader so far, wonder why? Exposed and FCS would have him look more dangerous, especially since he will have some other action (evade, focus?)

I've used expose on Vader before, mentioned in this thread already. Its a solid addition, but it ends up making Vader a serious point investment at 37 points (always run vader with at least a concussion missile)...

I thought so too, many points to put in a fighter that is destroyed with 5 damage. Did you feel the 37 points well spent? (if he destroyed or assisted in destruction of 2 ships you come out even, more or less)

Just jumping in briefly. Heading out to the Patriots game in a few minutes.

Cluster Missiles with FCS basically becomes the same, or better, than Concussion Missiles. Against high agility targets the damages are about the same, and against agility 1 targets Cluster Missiles will do more damage. I ran the numbers earlier but don't have them in front of me now.

I'll see if can upload the results graphically. Anyone know how to upload an image directly rather than link to a site? Gotta figure out that "My Media" button probably.

Ok, I admit I did not read the entire 22 pages, but I did not see this mentioned on the few pages I jumped around and did read.

What do folks think of giving the TIE Advanced access to advanced sensors? Seems like that would also be a nice way to make it better. Maybe a one point modification that gives you access to this 3 point upgrade (4 points total). Would be like having a very good R2 unit.

Ok, I admit I did not read the entire 22 pages, but I did not see this mentioned on the few pages I jumped around and did read.

What do folks think of giving the TIE Advanced access to advanced sensors? Seems like that would also be a nice way to make it better. Maybe a one point modification that gives you access to this 3 point upgrade (4 points total). Would be like having a very good R2 unit.

There has been a lot of support for all of the systems upgrades but unless you just pick one straight up its been hard implement and cost (and possibly limits design space later).

FCS seems solid and does 2 things the advanced needs: improves offense, allows use of action for defense/maneuvering without hampering offense. Also supports it as a missile carrying dogfighter rather than a missile carrier that is a tie so is inherently good at dogfighting.

Just jumping in briefly. Heading out to the Patriots game in a few minutes.

Cluster Missiles with FCS basically becomes the same, or better, than Concussion Missiles. Against high agility targets the damages are about the same, and against agility 1 targets Cluster Missiles will do more damage. I ran the numbers earlier but don't have them in front of me now.

I'll see if can upload the results graphically. Anyone know how to upload an image directly rather than link to a site? Gotta figure out that "My Media" button probably.

I didn't ran any numbers here, just my observation from the games. If you have numbers and it comes out as equal or slightly better then Concussion (depending on target) than I will strongly support the FCS model. If Agi 1 ships suffer more then it would be the one answer to Bs and HSF, which is ok. Especially since Cluster is a high risk with being R2 weapons, you have to get to R2 without being killed before (meaning you should avoid R3 vs heavy firepower), so some maneuver abilities from the player is needed - favours the experienced player.

I will continue with reports so the community can see how they do in game environment. I will try to get a full BR next time (all maneuver details, rolls etc)

Thanks for all the "hard work" Shad on playtesting (can we really call playing a game work? ).

I have been busy, going to the Patriots game last night and all, so I haven't gotten around to it. Going to take a stab at it now.

OK here we go. How I computed: I assumed that the defender has a 50% chance of having a focus token on defense. Focus is always used whenever possible, on both sides. I then ran three nested loops to calculate how much damage is done with and without focus on offense, for agility 1-3, with and without Jonus rerolls, for the following missiles:

• Cluster Missiles
• Cluster Missiles with FCS
• Concussion Missiles

Average Damage Results, no attacker focus

1 agility 2 agility 3 agility

---- No Jonus Rerolls ---

Cluster Missiles: 2.149 1.503 1.033

FCS Cluster Missiles: 2.847 2.099 1.507

Concussion Missiles: 2.186 1.711 1.294

---- With Jonus Rerolls ---

Cluster Missiles: 3.436 2.609 1.920

FCS Cluster Missiles: 3.491 2.653 1.956

Concussion Missiles: 2.881 2.386 1.909

Average Damage Results, with attacker focus

• Cluster Missiles with Jonus are always better than Concussion Missiles with Jonus
• Cluster Missiles without Jonus are always worse than Concussion Missiles without Jonus. Exception: if you can double focus then Cluster Missiles will do better, but I didn't run these numbers.
• FCS barely helps Cluster Missiles if you already have Jonus. This should be fairly obvious, since it only helps you reroll a third die, and only on the 2nd attack.

And lastly, what we're here for...

• Cluster Missiles with FCS is slightly better than Concussion Missiles across the board if a focus is NOT used.
• If a focus IS used, then they are about the same at agility 3, and then FCS Cluster Missiles starts to pull ahead at agility 2 and 1.

Looking at these numbers, it's obvious that Cluster Missiles get a get a very healthy buff with FCS , but I don't think, yet, that it is too imbalancing. On the bright side, FCS basically lets you run TIE Advanced without Jonus and still do good damage against low agility targets.

Good. Both sad and glad that it wasn't too powerful.

Any new experiences worth to report?

Great job Juggler. Seems like this could be a very sound fix for the advanced. Not to mention anything that improves the use of missiles is a good thing. Im really enjoying this community so far. Everyone seems so willing to improve the game for the better.

Make another aces pack for tie advanced with the tie avenger title aka advanced x2 card and a model repaint and/or add the foils. Make it a one model blister with a new missle and a four new pilots and a pair of EPT cards.

You want to make the advanced worth the points have the avenger title card add another shield so the advanced becomes 2/3/3/3. This puts it in line with the defender for upgraded stats. At 3/3/3/3.

You can even make this title cost 2 points so it's a discount over the normal shield modification but just for the advanced x1. There is also no other ship with those stats in game.

It keeps it's roll as a durable fighter w a single missle and 2 atk. Basically an expensive defensive ship w a single missle slot. Even if you gave vader the title it would make him a 31 point ship. You can't call them a cheap missle boat even the tempest would cost 23 points without a missle added. Still they would be great defensive ships.

You want to make the advanced worth the points have the avenger title card add another shield so the advanced becomes 2/3/3/3. This puts it in line with the defender for upgraded stats. At 3/3/3/3.

You can even make this title cost 2 points so it's a discount over the normal shield modification but just for the advanced x1. There is also no other ship with those stats in game.

It keeps it's roll as a durable fighter w a single missle and 2 atk. Basically an expensive defensive ship w a single missle slot. Even if you gave vader the title it would make him a 31 point ship. You can't call them a cheap missle boat even the tempest would cost 23 points without a missle added. Still they would be great defensive ships.

Accordingly, any fix for the TIE Advanced has to be free or relatively inexpensive, has to improve its offense, and shouldn't improve its defense. It also needs to somehow work around Vader, whose extra action is so good that it roughly balances out the handicap the rest of the Advanced pilots have to deal with.

The hack proposed in this thread of handing out free Fire Control Systems works for friendly games, but it would be nice to see something implemented by FFG in an official way. I'd like to see an exclusive title, modification, or both, but again that would mean finding a way to exempt Vader or making sure the benefit is something that's most valuable to low-PS pilots and least valuable to high-PS.

I'd like to see an exclusive title, modification, or both, but again that would mean finding a way to exempt Vader ...

Make the title "TIE Advanced only" which excludes "TIE Advanced X1". Card effect is the same as FCS for 0 points.

Great job Juggler. Seems like this could be a very sound fix for the advanced. Not to mention anything that improves the use of missiles is a good thing. Im really enjoying this community so far. Everyone seems so willing to improve the game for the better.

With that being said, tell Brady my Giants say hello! (Just a friendly jab, hehe)

It's a really solid community. Few trolls... little self monitoring needed... but compared to many other forums I've been on it's awesome and there is a core of people who are really interested in playtesting, reporting, and adjusting.

just a random thought that occured to me. What if the TIEadv stats was exactly the same as the Xwing? ie. 3/2/3/2.

It would be different from an interceptor due to the different maneuvers and lower agility, but yet it maintains its usefulness as a tanky TIE variant, and can dish out some significant damage worthy of its 21point cost.

I think for continuity sake, the Tie Advanced should have more hull points. There's no way that without shields it should be taking the same number of hits as a Tie Fighter or Interceptor. It's thick, like a good beef stew. It should be able to take more hits.
IMO +1 hull

But for playtesting sake, these guys played the ship as if it had 2/3/3/2, so to not mess with their numbers I think reducing the cost of it would be the best thing to pitch to FFG. I'm betting they'd buy into a cost reduction over changing the mechanics of the ships since they have no playtest to go along with new numbers. Just my 2 credits worth.

well, I remember back during the days of Wave 1, the TIEadv was the only ship that could do all the available actions, in a single package of 21 points. Even then, it was alright, didnt feel too overpowered nor underpowered.

then Wave 2 came, hit us with boost and green hard turns and the TIEint and the Awing, and suddenly the TIEadv started to slip a little

Wave 3 arrived shortly after with its sensor upgrades and TIE bomber, and the TIEadv can no longer keep up anymore.

Perhaps the reason why the TIEdefender doesnt have the evade action is to help set it apart from the TIEadv? assuming a TIEadv consistently using evade for every single round, the TIEdef would likely not be as tanky as the TIEadv

You want to make the advanced worth the points have the avenger title card add another shield so the advanced becomes 2/3/3/3. This puts it in line with the defender for upgraded stats. At 3/3/3/3.You can even make this title cost 2 points so it's a discount over the normal shield modification but just for the advanced x1. There is also no other ship with those stats in game.It keeps it's roll as a durable fighter w a single missle and 2 atk. Basically an expensive defensive ship w a single missle slot. Even if you gave vader the title it would make him a 31 point ship. You can't call them a cheap missle boat even the tempest would cost 23 points without a missle added. Still they would be great defensive ships.

They're already strong defensive ships--they literally have some of the most cost-effective defense in the game. The problem is that they're also among the worst offensive ships in the game, by a fair margin. The only thing less efficient in the narrow sense is the Outer Rim Smuggler, but that has a 360 arc and makes a great blocker.Accordingly, any fix for the TIE Advanced has to be free or relatively inexpensive, has to improve its offense, and shouldn't improve its defense. It also needs to somehow work around Vader, whose extra action is so good that it roughly balances out the handicap the rest of the Advanced pilots have to deal with.The hack proposed in this thread of handing out free Fire Control Systems works for friendly games, but it would be nice to see something implemented by FFG in an official way. I'd like to see an exclusive title, modification, or both, but again that would mean finding a way to exempt Vader or making sure the benefit is something that's most valuable to low-PS pilots and least valuable to high-PS.

See I disagree it's not cost effective and several people have shown it's point values as off compared to other ships. Secondly adding another shield makes it a very cost effective ship that will make it highly competitive and thus people will play it more. Since with 6 hit points your nearly garaunteed to get that missle off before you die.

well, I remember back during the days of Wave 1, the TIEadv was the only ship that could do all the available actions, in a single package of 21 points. Even then, it was alright, didnt feel too overpowered nor underpowered.

I don't think so, the TIE Advanced has always been fundamentally outgunned since it was introduced. Long MathWing post here, go to my 2nd post and read the summary for the TIE Advanced:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/100360-using-lanchesters-square-law-to-predict-ships-jousting-values-and-fair-point-values-work-in-progress/

The Advanced needs an offensive buff - thats for sure.

Is there any errata to any cards printed? I'm thinking they will simply bite their lip instead of making people own faulty product. Something needs to be changed by a future release, not by changing the actual cards. I don't see it ever happening.

given how they came up with the R2D6 to help solve the problem of the Ywings and PS4 mooks lacking EPTs, i think future releases may have some solutions to hopefully beef up the TIEadv a few notches

The funny thing is - with the transport/wave4 - the rebels could go with

4 x Red Squadron Pilots + Flechette torpedos

the 4 x Storms cannot equip 4 ion missiles.

Meaning the advantage of the x-Wing is growing compared to the Tie Advanced...

what if, to simulate the TIEadv's hyperdrive, you are allowed to deploy your TIEadv on your opponent's side of the playing field, not less than range3 away from any of your opponent's ships. Would this make the TIEadv better?