What broken combos can you do with advanced combos at 2 less points is my only Q for the first.

Improved targeting is great too.

Weapons upgrade is a bit much but I think it'll work. Are these titles? Because if you can get both 2 and 3 then that could be a problem.

For increased maneuverability drop the boost. People pay 4 for boost alone let alone an improved dial... and all for zero.

Just don't like versatile payload. no.

I just tried a shootout with a free FCS and a B-Wing ... and you are actually able to sting it to death ... if you take the evade action every turn ^^ ... so I think this is the improvement the Adv lacked of.

So from my side its the Improved Targeting

Improved Manufacturing is also nice; it gives you the option of 4 Storms with concussions and make the Advanced better missile carriers in overall - but thats it.

Weapons Upgrade - the original idea of how the Advanced could be fixed. This is the most effective option, of course. And it even has a discount of one point in it ... Im guessing here you value a upgrade from firepower 2 to 3 is worth 5 points.

I'm fine with this one, but like already said, this would be the job of the Avenger and Defender with 4 laser cannons each.

Increased Maneuverability - not bad, but I'd like this one on the Avenger.

Versatile Payload - I'd love the idea of having a small imperial ship with heavy cannons AND a System Upgrade slot - but jeah ... this should be the Defender then.

To make the Advanced unique of some kind, it should really be Improved Targeting

I am happy that we all together managed to find quite a few options to improve the Advanced.

It has been fun so far, thanks to all. I really enjoyed this.

Now I want to see opinions of other ppl about the 5 options we have for the Advanced

I like the 1st two Titles..

both are great..

I don't like the Cannon, Weapon Upgrade or the Change Dial, I'm wondering about something simple like the R2 ability might be great on the Advanced

Inertia Dampers (0 points)

Ship counts Speed 2 maneuvers as green.

Test Pilot (0 points)

Ship gains an additional EPT slot.

Oh just a minor thing

I do wonder if Test Pilot should be

Test Pilot (0 points)

Ship gains +2PS and an additional EPT slot.

But that may be broken on Vader and Maarek.

Inertia Dampers (0 points)

Ship counts Speed 2 maneuvers as green.

Sure, this would work. But it wouldn't be enough. ^^

I don't like the Cannon, Weapon Upgrade or the Change Dial, I'm wondering about something simple like the R2 ability might be great on the Advanced

You don't like a cannon like this on the Advanced?

Inertia Dampers (0 points)

Ship counts Speed 2 maneuvers as green.

Sure, this would work. But it wouldn't be enough. ^^

I think you would be surprised how good it would be on the Advanced, it's the 2 greens that make the Interceptor so good at shedding stress. I could see it being better than FCS on a PtL Maarek.

Inertia Dampers (0 points)

Ship counts Speed 2 maneuvers as green.

Sure, this would work. But it wouldn't be enough. ^^

I think you would be surprised how good it would be on the Advanced, it's the 2 greens that make the Interceptor so good at shedding stress. I could see it being better than FCS on a PtL Maarek.

For sure ... but ... you know you want to get Markmanship for him if he has a FCS?! And Vader don't need PtL anyway.

Improved Manufacturing (0 points)

Reduce the cost of this ship by 2 points.

Improved Targeting (0 points)

This ship can now equip the Fire Control System upgrade for zero points.

Weapons Upgrade: (3 points)

Add +1 attack to this ship's primary weapons.

Increased Maneuverability (0 points)

This ship now uses the TIE Interceptor maneuver dial, and gains the Engine Boost action.

Versatile Payload (0 points)

This ship gains the System Upgrade slot, and may equip a cannon in the Missile Slot.

So, the first two options are good, I think they should both be available. This change alone would probably be fine. Anyone have any thoughts about the other three, or have any other options?

Increased maneuverability

For me that's a no, as said before I think changing the actual dial could be a problem for people who don't own those ships

Also we must consider other ships to come, ala the Avenger. We could be in the same boat if the any new ships are just better than the Advanced and very similar that they will again fall into the realm of not being used again.

Nor do I want to build the advanced into the Avenger and have no need for it to be built.

So for me it means choosing something that limits how good we make the Advanced, I want it to work but think it should probably stay as a rarely used ship, just one that finds niche uses.

That said I am only considering Improved manufacturing and Improved Targeting in my mind

I am happy that we all together managed to find quite a few options to improve the Advanced.

It has been fun so far, thanks to all. I really enjoyed this.

I would like to second this

Should the Storm Pilots get an EPT in addition? (I have the free FCS in my mind)

... Are there as elite as the Sabers and the Black Squadron Pilots?

From my perspective this would be sound and 'canon', since only the most elite Imperial pilots got a chance to get their ass into a Advanced.

I'd say yes, because this would make the Tempest more a missile carrier and bomber escord, while the Storms must not rely on missiles with their access to Elite Upgrades. They could enhance their firepower with opportunist ... or use swarm tactics, together with vader ... and so on.

I am not sure they should. The Red Squadron and to a lesser extent the Dagger Squadron pilots don't.

I know, but it would put even more value onto the Advanced line towards competivity.

and on the other hand, you really can't compare rebels and imperials 1:1 ...

So like the designers could have sayed: "The Red squadron Pilots don't have an EPT, why should the Black Squadron Pilots have one?" ...

I am not sure they should. The Red Squadron and to a lesser extent the Dagger Squadron pilots don't.

But both of the Imperial PS4 fighter pilots do (Black and saber) do, along with the A-Wing Green and the A-Wing as an experimental test fighter is the closest to the Advanced background-wise. The Advanced is piloted by some of the best test pilots the Imperials have.

Also note that the X-Wing and the B-Wing have FAR more options to begin with, System Upgrades, Astromechs, Cannons etc

Yes, the EPT on the Storms would allow to have also minor adjustments ... like Adrenaline Rush and VI for 1 point - not only the 'expensive' missile upgrade and modification slot.

@Rodent:

The R2-Effect as common modification for 2 points would be cool, btw.

Like:

Inertia Dampers (2 points modification, small ships only )

Ship counts Speed 2 maneuvers as green.

The issue I would see with the elite slot and FCS is everyone would take PtL which means TL, focus and another action every turn. Might be a tad to much then.

The issue I would see with the elite slot and FCS is everyone would take PtL which means TL, focus and another action every turn. Might be a tad to much then.

Good point - so you fear that the Advanced will become OP? I can ensure you that this will not be the case.

If you take a Strom pilot with PTL you are at 26 points. So you can have only up to 3 of these. I think thats ok - they have only 2 firepower and can do only this much damage (ok and 3 at range 1) - no matter how many actions they got.

If you would give them an engine upgrade on top, you would have like 3 vaders light for 90 points - but with PS4 ... at the end hard to kill - but very low in terms of damage output. But hey, if you want to have a difficult to kill squadron, go for it.

But its far from being overpowered.

wow, not even news threads get to reach 14 pages.

something is seriously wrong with the TIEadvanced

You raise a valid point on the whole EPT, it probably isn't overpowered when you assess the points cost.

If you take a Strom pilot with PTL you are at 26 points. So you can have only up to 3 of these. I think thats ok - they have only 2 firepower and can do only this much damage (ok and 3 at range 1) - no matter how many actions they got.

If you would give them an engine upgrade on top, you would have like 3 vaders light for 90 points - but with PS4 ... at the end hard to kill - but very low in terms of damage output. But hey, if you want to have a difficult to kill squadron, go for it.

But its far from being overpowered.

I agree, I don't think that adding an EPT to the PS4 Advanced is even close to game breaking. I would make the PS4 EPT slot a "free" upgrade that would not exclude you from taking a ship upgrade. So in the above example, take off 2 points (or add FCS), unless you get Engine Upgrade. It's still not a big deal in my mind, I could go either way on it.

I had in mind that the "Improved Manufacturing" and "Improved Targeting" would use up your one ship upgrade slot, so you could only take one of them, and you couldn't take anything else like Engine Boost, for example. But that works with your above example.

But what you could end up with, is 4x Storms with PtL for 96 points: 21 points for a Storm Squadron, +3 for PtL is only 24 points. Looks like enough points to put a Concussion Missile on one of them. Anyone up for playtesting this vs a similar Rebel squad?

I guess a similar kind of squad would be something like:

Red Squadron Pilot + Proton Torpedo x2

Red Squadron Pilot x2

Or obviously Bloody Daggers:

Dagger Squadron + Advanced Sensors x2

Red Squadron x2

It would be interesting to see Bloody Daggers vs 4 PtL Storms, one with Concussion Missile.

Storms are 23 pts, so 26 with PtL

Storms with "Improved Manufacturing" would be 21 points.

I would go with a free FCS and EPT on the Storm and leave it at that.

That would be pretty balanced and easy to errata.