@Maelora: it took me a bit to track down the link, but your description of the Empire, and by extension The Emperor, as non-fantastical, soulless entities really struck a chord with me and I remembered reading how the original Star Wars novelization had the same description! It is here: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/weird-differences-between-the-first-star-wars-movie-and-its-preceding-novelization

And just on a storytelling note, I like that a lot better than the magical, mustache twirling bad guys of Return of the Jedi . It fits so much better with what the audience knows about the Empire from New Hope. Aside from kooky old Vader, the Empire is a passionless beuaracracy devoid of all human emotion. How are they defeated? By Luke turning off the machines, his targeting computer, and using his FEELINGS. The good guys have FEELINGS and they are passionate about what they are doing because it is the right thing to do. And that's much more in line with what I would expect a young Lucas in the 70s, not far out of college, not far past the Vietnam war protests, to view the dichotomy of good vs. evil.

It is only elsewhere are we fed a b.s. line that to be good, one must be passionless.

And of course, we've since learned (even in the movies and The Clone Wars ) how much " there is no passion " is a lie even for the Jedi... though I recall the novelization and Episode IV treating the Emperor as an absentee landlord, so to speak, a 'Nixonian' politician who was either out-of-touch or flat-out a puppet, thereby leaving Grand Moff Tarkin to wreak havoc with Darth Vader as the latter's sort-of minion but nevertheless a more enduring de facto face of the Empire for the fans... it's only Episode V onward that the characterization changed from this, although apparently EU canon had such a " reclusive who ceded effective control to his intimates " view of Palpatine being widely believed in-universe.

Admittedly the idea of Vader as " face of the Empire " may be more an out-of-universe thing than in-universe... As of Episode IV, " kooky old Vader " is a former Jedi (some EU authors have noted that it's mainly the Jedi and the Sith who can tell the difference between each other moreso than anyone else can) and perhaps being thought of that way, giving him the 'taint' of " the old guard " even if he turned on them, while Grand Moff Tarkin is the political ascendant* and, even if you don't know enough of the EU to know why that is, he's the still the one who's running the show on the Death Star, while the most that Vader gets is a supervisory presence at the boarding of Tantive IV (all that he really does personally is choke its captain dead) and then eventually " going off on his own " twice, first to find Obi-Wan and then to take on the Rebel pilots...

* It doesn't seem coincidental to me that Tarkin is the one announcing and talking up the dissolution of the Senate and the planned political reorganization, and the EU further reinforces this: it was his idea, or at least he wrote/dictated the memo that " made " him politically, and he stood to directly gain from the change -- it's a blatant power grab gone swimmingly for him.

Wow. Kyla, that's not only very cool... it sounds like something I'd come up with...!

I'm guessing you must be my evil twin or something. Or am I the evil one?

(actually, I don't have a sister, so you must be someone different and not just me posting under another alias or something

There's no evil one sis! It's "morally flexible" now!

I've been trying to figure out what would happen if the Empire won at Yavin IV. For one thing Tarkin survives, and so do his ambitions. He will probably attempt to take power at some point, whether sooner or later. Another thing is that the Rebel Alliance is in major trouble. Without High Command, communications between the various Sector Commands break down. The Rebel Fleet and SpecForces would likely find it more difficult to get resupplied. Desertions and even defections are likely to be rampant. The existence of the Death Star will make their problems even worse. The destruction of the Rebellion is not assured at this point, but it'll take some doing to save it. Enter the PCs...

I've been trying to figure out what would happen if the Empire won at Yavin IV. For one thing Tarkin survives, and so do his ambitions. He will probably attempt to take power at some point, whether sooner or later.

This one's an interesting supposition, as the Death Star novel has Tarkin revealing his own belief that the Emperor would have had at least some sort of fail-safe against a coup attempt, presumably besides Vader's and Yularen's presences onboard (and those of their own loyalists and ISB security forces), and as I described above the throne isn't that much of a leap over where he's already sitting by Yavin...

Makes more sense to me if other things change as well, though. Indeed, besides the omission of Palpatine and Vader, Maelora's campaign premise has Imperial forces succeed at Yavin... only for the Death Star to be severely sabotaged not long afterward.

I've been trying to figure out what would happen if the Empire won at Yavin IV. For one thing Tarkin survives, and so do his ambitions. He will probably attempt to take power at some point, whether sooner or later. Another thing is that the Rebel Alliance is in major trouble. Without High Command, communications between the various Sector Commands break down. The Rebel Fleet and SpecForces would likely find it more difficult to get resupplied. Desertions and even defections are likely to be rampant. The existence of the Death Star will make their problems even worse. The destruction of the Rebellion is not assured at this point, but it'll take some doing to save it. Enter the PCs...

Everyone seems to agree that the strength of the Death Star would have given Tarkin a reason to go for the Throne, but I don't see it. Tarkin served the Republic before the Empire, and has seen many "doomsday devices" come and go. Moreover, he's seen the political strength of Palpatine's ascension to Emperor. He'd know that there would be little he could do to take the throne without turn the Emperor's popularity on it's ear. A Battle Station isn't going to do that. Moreover, he must know that there are dozens of separate loyalist cells on the Death Star - as each crewman was handpicked and approved through the ISB to be there - the Emperor could arrange for a wide-spread mutiny should Tarkin's pants get too big.

I think Tarkin is far more delicate than that - he'd use the victory at Yavin more as a source of legendary reputation than of physical might. He'd most likely be even more of a Palpatine poster boy to by his image as "unquestionably loyal." Everyone suspected him of "shooting the moon" (pun intended) and going for it all, so by not doing so he not only draws suspicion to the accuracy of the rumors but also the validity of the rumor generators. After he keeps up the "#1 fan" gig long enough, he start introducing negative propaganda to the Emepror. The best part about it was that the Emperor couldn't even remove him from the Death Star, as without a reason to do so, there'd be only negative press.

I wonder what might have happened if the Death Star failed to fire at Alderaan and suffered a major breakdown causing it to be scrapped.

I wonder what might have happened if the Death Star failed to fire at Alderaan and suffered a major breakdown causing it to be scrapped.

I doubt it would be scrapped unless the failure damaged it beyond the cost of buildin a replacement. Even if it doesn't kill planets, it's a good propaganda tool... a mobile base.

I wonder what might have happened if the Death Star failed to fire at Alderaan and suffered a major breakdown causing it to be scrapped.

I doubt it would be scrapped unless the failure damaged it beyond the cost of buildin a replacement. Even if it doesn't kill planets, it's a good propaganda tool... a mobile base.

Expanding on what I said, I'm proposing that it's a total lemon with a non-functional superlaser and a hyperdrive that can't do better than x12 (when it does work). The whole thing eventually gets brought to Coruscant where it remains as the largest defense installation ever and is known as Tarkin's Folly.

I wonder what might have happened if the Death Star failed to fire at Alderaan and suffered a major breakdown causing it to be scrapped.

I doubt it would be scrapped unless the failure damaged it beyond the cost of buildin a replacement. Even if it doesn't kill planets, it's a good propaganda tool... a mobile base.

Expanding on what I said, I'm proposing that it's a total lemon with a non-functional superlaser and a hyperdrive that can't do better than x12 (when it does work). The whole thing eventually gets brought to Coruscant where it remains as the largest defense installation ever and is known as Tarkin's Folly.

That's not scrapping - that's making lemonade.

Even without the superlaser, it's still a rather impressive collection of firepower and manpower. The superlaser makes it a weapon of terror.

How many fighter squadrons? How many brigades?

I've been trying to figure out what would happen if the Empire won at Yavin IV. For one thing Tarkin survives, and so do his ambitions. He will probably attempt to take power at some point, whether sooner or later. Another thing is that the Rebel Alliance is in major trouble. Without High Command, communications between the various Sector Commands break down. The Rebel Fleet and SpecForces would likely find it more difficult to get resupplied. Desertions and even defections are likely to be rampant. The existence of the Death Star will make their problems even worse. The destruction of the Rebellion is not assured at this point, but it'll take some doing to save it. Enter the PCs...

I was on a MUSH, basically an online hybrid of text adventure and tabletop rp, a long time ago that had a short lived side campaign where several PCs were warped from the main timeline which pretty much followed the EU until the Jedi Academy was formed to one where the Empire had won the Battle of Yavin over a decade before. We ended up forming a new Rebel Alliance with my character, who was a former smuggler and Alliance/New Republic Privateer using his knowledge of Shadowports and the Black Market to find some ports and Black Market contacts that were still valid in the new timeline and he spent most of his time there helping to set up the new rebellion’s supply lines.

I would love to see a plotline where Palpatine actually honestly had good intentions when he formed the Empire and didn’t know how his subordinates were misusing their power so he ends up rebelling against his own Empire when he discovers what Tarkin and those like him have been up to. I imagine a three way battle between the evil Empire, Palpatine’s loyalists and the Rebel Alliance ensuing.

I figure in any coup engaged in by Tarkin he'd actually have Vader's support. In A New Hope Vader was pretty much acting as Tarkin's lackey. Vader wants to overthrow Palpatine as well. The main hurdle would be the ISB and Stormtrooper presence on the Death Star. I figure Tarkin deals with this in two ways. First I imagine there might be some big brouhaha on Coruscant for the unveiling of the Death Star. So perhaps when that occurs all/most of the Stormtroopers go down to parade grounds on the planet's surface. Then Tarkin hits the parade grounds with an orbital bombardment. Then he sends the army contingent down to occupy Coruscant, with Vader going down to the planet's surface to confront Palpatine. Then Tarkin announces to the galaxy that he is overthrowing Palpatine for two reasons. One, he is the Sith Lord that orchestrated the Clone Wars (Vader knows this, so he might tell Tarkin). Two, he has been concealing a major threat to the galaxy, the Far Outsiders that attacked Zonama Sekot around the same time as the invasion of Naboo. He and Anakin Skywalker were involved in an attempt to seize Zonama Sekot, though at the time Anakin was opposing him. He would hope to convince the Empire that their loyalty is to the Empire itself, not Palpatine. Palpatine escapes however, and flees to Byss. From there he attempts to counter Tarkin's attempts to take control of the Empire.

The Empire splits into multiple factions, the main ones being Tarkin's followers and Palpatine loyalists. Others split off into separate factions, with Generationists in the Navy not trusting either man and others like Zsinj taking the opportunity to declare themselves warlords of their own territories. Some Generationists might very well join or ally with the Alliance if they could, others attempt to preserve the Empire, but under the leadership of some one they feel they can trust. Meanwhile the Alliance flounders without leadership. Some suggest taking the offensive, using the Empire's division as an opportunity to seize territory, such as the Tion Cluster. Others want to fall back to Mon Calamari and build up their forces there. The various Sector Commands take their own actions, with many getting caught up in the conflict within the Empire and destroyed.

Of course alternatively, Tarkin and Vader bide their time. Palpatine assigns Tarkin Scourge Squadron and orders him to finish off the Alliance once and for all, using the Death Star when necessary. Meanwhile, he works with Thrawn to bring the Empire of the Hand into the Empire and thwart a potential sneak attack by the Far Outsiders through the Unknown Regions. Tarkin's first target is probably Mon Calamari and even if the entire Rebel fleet tries to hold them off it's likely futile. Unless, the Death Star is somehow destroyed or sabotaged. If there were any survivors of Yavin, they might have the Death Star plans with them, especially if Luke is one of those survivors. Perhaps he was knocked off course instead of being destroyed and the remaining starfighters fled the system after Yavin's destruction. Or perhaps a group of agents (the PCs) undertake a daring effort to sabotage the Death Star before it reaches Mon Calamari. Wouldn't that be a crazy first adventure! Even if the Death Star is destroyed, however, it's still largely a Pyrrhic victory, worse if it was only temporarily taken out of commission. The Rebel Alliance would need daring heroes to ensure it's survival until it can knit itself back together. Perhaps they are sent to track down Garm Bel Iblis, last surviving founder of the Alliance. Only Ackbar and a few others know that he survived the Empire's assassination attempt, but they know that if he reveals himself the charismatic and admired Senator has a possibility to hold the Alliance together. Perhaps when they find him they learn he has found a potential lead on where to find starships. He sends them to make contact with a man named Captain Hoffner on the submersible cruise liner Coral Vanda on the world of Pantolomin...

Here I assumed Palpatine himself had the first Death Star sabotaged to blow up the second time its primary weapon was charged up after all he would assume he'd be its next target after all?

I'm not the biggest fan of The Clone Wars series (though I will admit, I haven't watched the latter seasons, which are supposed to be awesome), but one thing I did take away from it? Tarkin. How he was depicted on the show was great - a truly engaging character that made you love, hate, and almost fear him (not only because of how he was shown then, but how bad you KNEW he became).