A frequent topic of discussion seems to be how competent a starting level acolyte is supposed to be. I think the book would benefit from a short but unambiguous discussion of this topic, as well as a guide on how to adjust the baseline competence of the starting characters to ones preferred level. Additionally, it would be nice if the character creation mechanics reflected this intended level of competence.
Supposed power level of acolytes
I like it as it currently is. at +25
The acolytes are above "average-joe", and thats how it should be !
Also it would bring it better in line with Rogue Trader
Absolutely.
I vaguely remember something from one of the books stating that 28 in all stats with the rough average for an imperial citizen (which would make the original acolytes above average but not by much with their 31 average in each stat excluding background stuff), but having something specific written up would help greatly.
No offense, but have you guys read the intro paragraphs to chapter 2? It says pretty clearly the status of Player Characters in the game and what they are tasked with doing.
I know that there is some information, but since we keep discussing how powerful an acolyte is supposed to be, I would think that more information is needed
"Players in Dark Heresy take on the role of unique and exceptional individuals plucked from across the galaxy to become Acolytes in the service of an Inquisitor."
Their stats should make them "exceptional", above what you'd expect from an average civilian. 2d10+25 represents this quite well when matched against the stats of common adversaries.
Edited by Prince Raven
There is a citizen on page 282 which would provide a good baseline for a 'normal imperial' (although it does have bonuses to T and Fel when the Hive World plus stats are Ag and P, which is a little odd). Looks like 25 is one possible base value for a normal citizen.
This would make 2d10+20 (Avg 31) very good (24% better on average) and 2d10+25 (Avg 36) extremely good (44% better).
What the better representation of exceptional is open to debate though (after all, a character with 25 in each stat plus fate points is also exceptional compared to a normal spod).
Edited by NaviwardA problem could be that the mechanics does not reflect the fluff. A DH1 acolyte was also supposed to be chosen among countless billions and be a cut above the rest of humanity. However, the starting characters in DH1 were mechanically not that impressive when compared to many of the antagonists from the book, such as an enforcer or bounty hunter.
A problem could be that the mechanics does not reflect the fluff. A DH1 acolyte was also supposed to be chosen among countless billions and be a cut above the rest of humanity. However, the starting characters in DH1 were mechanically not that impressive when compared to many of the antagonists from the book, such as an enforcer or bounty hunter.
For me the mechanic that made the acolytes a cut above the rest were fate points and corruption/insanity. That way they could survive through things that would kill the enforcer or be exposed to horrors that would drive the bounty hunter mad (admittedly taking corruption/insanity points and so on, but madness was more of a gradual thing).
Only War style 2d10+20 with 2 +3s from HomeWorld and a +5 for role with 1,000xp and some type of upgrade thing where you can buy one upgrade thing TM and get some nice bonus.
Only war has some average IG guys - not the chosen of the inquisition !
You say chosen I say errand boys/girls.
You say chosen I say errand boys/girls.
Heresy !
You say chosen I say errand boys/girls.
This is also the reason why it would be nice with a guideline for creating both chosen and errand boys. Both interpretations seems to be popular.
Only war has some average IG guys - not the chosen of the inquisition !
Exactly, random IG nobody is not the person an Inquisitor will be collecting as an acolyte. The one who's a cut above the rest, who shows promise, that's the one they'll be recruiting.
Not in everyone's interpretation, it seems. There was bound to be disagreement on this topic, too.
And that is why I think the book needs to clearly state what kind of characters we are dealing with in a way where fluff and mechanics does not contradict each other.
Yeah. Schola Progenium graduates like Arbites are a whole different caliber than rookie beat cops. If DH2 really aims at low power, perhaps it would be better to replace this background with something like the local Enforcers, and generally try to avoid evoking false expectations.
I remember when I got the core rulebook I was surprised by DH1 being a game about the Inquisition, but not letting you play an Inquisitor. Though this is hardly FFG's fault but a decision already made by the old Black Industries studio.
This is also the reason why it would be nice with a guideline for creating both chosen and errand boys. Both interpretations seems to be popular.
That idea reminds me of the new Shadowrun edition, where the core rulebook comes with an option for "Street Level" and "Prime Runner" chargen in addition to the default medium.
Only war has some average IG guys - not the chosen of the inquisition !
Exactly, random IG nobody is not the person an Inquisitor will be collecting as an acolyte. The one who's a cut above the rest, who shows promise, that's the one they'll be recruiting.
You mean the one with Fate Points? That is a cut above the rest. Favored by the Emperor.
No offense, gals and guys, but did we really need another thread discussing the very same thing? We have that discussed in the Not Convinced thread, in the one Tim started, in the one Gaunt started commenting the update changes...
No offense, gals and guys, but did we really need another thread discussing the very same thing? We have that discussed in the Not Convinced thread, in the one Tim started, in the one Gaunt started commenting the update changes...
Yes, we do. Whether starting player characters are incompetent idiots or useful agents of the Imperium's secret police force is a hotly contested issue and is arguably the most important issue for we, the beta testers, to discuss. No further issues can be addressed before this is put to bed as the entirety of the system rests on its answer.
I think the fact that it's being brought up in multiple threads arguably makes it more important a topic to have its own thread, not less.
Go ahead and discuss other issues. I just pointed out an area of the book/setting where I think more clarity is needed and could easily be added to the book.
I think a big part of the problem is that while the fluff in the rulebook has essentially always said that the players are a cut above (if only cut were a universal measurement with units!) many players have had a lot of fun with hilariously inept acolytes. "Oh man, remember that time that Matt was being held hostage, so he pulled a grenade, so the guard shot his arm clean off but the grenade landed right in the middle of the guards and killed everyone?"
I'm still in favour of Acolytes being ordinary people with one special skill, or surviving one moment that got them into the Inquisition. A real Inquisitor likely has hundreds of acolytes, and probably doesn't choose most of them himself, letting his interrogator and Throne Agents handle that. A simple scribe can become an acolyte, merely because he alone read the name of a daemon in an ancient grimoire. Ordinary people step up to serve all the time.
And I really like low powered games in general. The players can investigate easily, but so help them if they get caught by those cultists or xenos.
But I can see why you'd want more power as well, so the two different options at char gen sounds the best.
20+2D10 and 600 exp
25+2D10 and 1000 exp
Seems like a nice simple solution
Perfect solution in my oppinion.
Offer 2 scenarios for two kinds of campaign styles: Rookies and Agents
I'm still in favour of Acolytes being ordinary people with one special skill, or surviving one moment that got them into the Inquisition. A real Inquisitor likely has hundreds of acolytes, and probably doesn't choose most of them himself, letting his interrogator and Throne Agents handle that. A simple scribe can become an acolyte, merely because he alone read the name of a daemon in an ancient grimoire. Ordinary people step up to serve all the time.
Oh, I hadn't thought of having the Throne Agents recruiting acolytes. That resolves a big part of the disconnect in my mind- Eisenhorn and Ravenor are surrounded by extremely skilled agents. Why would another inquisitor have a warband of bumbling dunces like the PCs? But if each member of the ]['s warband has their *own* pile of raw recruits, that's a bit more believable.