A problem I had in recent lines with knowledge skills, was, that they always seemed to be too expensive compared to other, less specialized skills.

E.g.: Common Lore (Arbites) is much less usefull than Inquiry, as the CL is far more limited in its use (on Arbites in this example).

But they now cost the same in Beta2 in XP.

For this reason I was very glad about the Beta1's Remembrance Skill, which is far more general.

Yes, you also needed to buy different Specialist talents for its efficient use, BUT this specialist talent gave you a more broad range of usability than just 1 kind of lore.

It kind of combined all lore types of the topic (CL, SL and FL), also adding languages that are common for the specialists field of activity (including ciphers, secret tongues etc.)

I would be very glad if this could return, or the XP-prices for CL, SL and FL would be halved.

In both of my current RT games, Common Lores are bought as if everyone had both aptitudes (that is 100/200/300).

Common Lores are (supposed to be) exactly that, common.

This hasn't broken anything, but works rather well. It has been tested for years now, in one of the campaigns, and ...about a year in the other.

The bad thing is - guys that should rather be knowledge experts (SL, FL) don't have any benefit with this proposals over other characters (but they should have).

The bad thing is - guys that should rather be knowledge experts (SL, FL) don't have any benefit with this proposals over other characters (but they should have).

If this refers to my suggestion, you will note that I was refering only and exclusively to common lores. Scholatisc and Forbidden Lores are full price and under the usual restrictions.

Remember, RT, so if it's not in your advancement tree, it has to be taken as an elite advance and can be surprisingly expensive.

The idea is to make common lores common , meaning that knowledge experts can focus on more specialized subject - which fits the various academics and interlectuals I know.

EDIT: Ofcourse, the knowledge experts are also likely to have higher intelligence and so gain more from skill in lores. Just as planned.

I'm with GauntZero here. Remembrance + talents was a sophisticated solution.

The recent update changed the Aptitudes for Common Lore from General to Knowledge, making them more expensive. I don't really understand the rationale for that - they're not super useful and I don't think should be at the same price point as FL or SL.

I'm with GauntZero here. Remembrance + talents was a sophisticated solution.

Yup.

Why was it we went back to this wreck of a skill system again? It's not like the skill systems have ever been particularly compatible in the 40k RPG line (at least it was a bit of a shift in BC/OW).

The bad thing is - guys that should rather be knowledge experts (SL, FL) don't have any benefit with this proposals over other characters (but they should have).

If this refers to my suggestion, you will note that I was refering only and exclusively to common lores. Scholatisc and Forbidden Lores are full price and under the usual restrictions.

Remember, RT, so if it's not in your advancement tree, it has to be taken as an elite advance and can be surprisingly expensive.

The idea is to make common lores common , meaning that knowledge experts can focus on more specialized subject - which fits the various academics and interlectuals I know.

EDIT: Ofcourse, the knowledge experts are also likely to have higher intelligence and so gain more from skill in lores. Just as planned.

A high cost for a specific piece of knowledge is too much !

You never buy "scholastic lore", but you buy "Scholastic Lore (Heraldry)" !

And that should have the same costs in average than Dodge ?? Really ?

In Shadowrun they made such skills cost half, otherwise no-one buys them.

The recent update changed the Aptitudes for Common Lore from General to Knowledge, making them more expensive. I don't really understand the rationale for that - they're not super useful and I don't think should be at the same price point as FL or SL.

Pre-errata OW IIRC

I'm for the aptitude switch on Common Lore but they should cost less.

I'm for the aptitude switch on Common Lore but they should cost less.

I... what? Do you understand how Aptitudes function? The General Aptitude effectively makes it so nobody ever pays the 0-Aptitude price for that advance. Changing the Aptitude removes this, raising the cost. You can have one or the other, not both.

Why not give it all 3 so you only need one aptitude to get it cheep?

The recent update changed the Aptitudes for Common Lore from General to Knowledge, making them more expensive. I don't really understand the rationale for that - they're not super useful and I don't think should be at the same price point as FL or SL.

Wait what? No, it did the opposite thing.

" Page 52, Table 2–5: Skill Aptitudes: Replace “Knowledge” as the Common Lore Aptitude 2 with “General.”"

I stand by my idea!

The recent update changed the Aptitudes for Common Lore from General to Knowledge, making them more expensive. I don't really understand the rationale for that - they're not super useful and I don't think should be at the same price point as FL or SL.

Wait what? No, it did the opposite thing.

" Page 52, Table 2–5: Skill Aptitudes: Replace “Knowledge” as the Common Lore Aptitude 2 with “General.”"

Oh, you're right, my bad. In the skills section it's correctly listed as Intelligence, General. It's just the table was wrong.

My point is why should the General Aptitude not be given to all roles? After all.......It's "General"! Everything under the General Aptitude should be cheaper.

Everyone gets the General Aptitude... It's an effective discount on the cost of anything with the General Aptitude associacted with it. Or are you saying we should further complicate the cost calculations by having a different pricing structure for General advances?

I'm saying that Common Lore should be priced the same for everyone regardless of role or background and only use the General Aptitude which everyone already has. And the skill should be cheaper to buy.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

The only way for what you're suggesting to work is to have both CL's associated Aptitudes be General. That way everyone always has 2 and pays the lowest price. Is this what you're suggesting?

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

The only way for what you're suggesting to work is to have both CL's associated Aptitudes be General. That way everyone always has 2 and pays the lowest price. Is this what you're suggesting?

Yes, that is what i'm saying. My bad, that didn't get explained that well.

Why not give common Lore 2 General and each Scholastic and Forbidden Lore 1 General + 1 Knowledge

Yes - might sound heretic - but that would be a good discount on all Lore SKills which makes buying them more of an option.

Otherwise, no player wants to be the guy who sacrifices XP to get "knowledge skills".

I know that they are important to the game, but:

a.) they are bought very specific

and

b.) they are just not as sexy for players as "Stealth", "Dodge" or "Athletics".

Why not give common Lore 2 General and each Scholastic and Forbidden Lore 1 General + 1 Knowledge

Yes - might sound heretic - but that would be a good discount on all Lore SKills which makes buying them more of an option.

Otherwise, no player wants to be the guy who sacrifices XP to get "knowledge skills".

I know that they are important to the game, but:

a.) they are bought very specific

and

b.) they are just not as sexy for players as "Stealth", "Dodge" or "Athletics".

Depends on how the GM runs the game. If there is never any content that makes the knowledge skills valuable, then they are worthless skills. However, in my games, I always provide opportunities for knowledge skills to be used. If they lack the proper knowledge and can't get it from other people, they are screwed and have to find a workaround to progress their investigation. They learn real quick that knowledge is power.

But - honestly - how often will you leave your players totally clueless over a longer time, if they lack the right knowledge skill ?

I for myself maybe let them suffer a bit, but I wont let the story get killed because of it.

In SHadowrun they make knowledge skills half price of active skills - and they do know why.

Even if usefull, they are not sexy and as I said too specific.

The risk that you might not need it at all is too big.

You might buy forbidden lore (daemons) and be stuck with a xenos threat within your next campaign...great...while your dodgin stealth comrade jumps around as ever. For.The.Same.Costs.

The Remembrance + Specialist-Cluster solution was elegant.

There are always several paths through the game that they are aware of but much of the time, having the appropriate knowledge cuts down extra work that they have to do and overall makes their investigative lives easier.

It really just depends on how much flavor the players and GM want in the game.

Again - I am not denying that knowledge skill are important.

They just are too specific to pay the full price for.

You also dont buy swim and climb anymore, but athletics. 1 price for several ingredients.

And this bundle is worth the same as Common Lore (Arbites) ? Really ?

Or Scholastic Lore (Chilis) ?