If you only have 1 Bomber model, then Rhymer is your man. When I got my first one from my buddy who went to Gencon, I had a lot of fun flying Rhymer+APT+Homing+PTL and 3 lvl3 interceptors. Risky, but really fun to play, and won with it most of the time. Do you shoot at the guy that is prepping his super APT? Or at one of the squints bearing down on you?

However, I do think he is just too risky for tournament play. Usually only having 1 ship with Ordnance is a gamble, and doesn't do that much of an alpha strike. Either go for all dog-fighters, or go big on the alpha strike with multiple bombers, and Jonus then becomes the default choice.

Maybe I'll go for a full gamble in a fun game and try like this:

Holy Molly ... all 4 missile and torps slots are used - so you pay only 1 point each! Maybe thats the reason why his ability is 4 points! Maybe this is how the designers think like this is the way to use Rhymer! ... Or what were they thinking??

I still don't get it.

Maybe every wave has to have an epic fail in it. For wave 3, thats Rhymer - for sure.

I've repeatedly suggested they have some kind of high capacity missile launcher which could effectively act much like a cannon slot. I'm not sure what it should cost but if you had an "unlimited" missile supply that only required a TL to use it could compare to a cannon system.

Maybe have a missile that only shoots for 3 dice at range 1-2 that costs 2 and grants you an additional missile slot?

My thought is more the "reusable" missile with 3 or 4 dice at range 2-3 that doesn't add any other bells and whistles. A missile that only deals 3 dice as is only usable at range 1-2 really isn't all that beneficial as you're just spending points to gain one die on a range 2 attack. Now 3 dice at ranges 2-3 can work because that is an attack boost for most missile carrying ships.

I ran Rhymer + APTx2, Howlrunner+ squad leader, Black Squadron Pilot x3 Obsidian Pilot x3 in the last Team Covenant/VASSAL tourney. It was suprisingly good. PHeaver whipped me good with Biggs Walked the Dogs in the first round, but in all the other rounds the list did surprisingly well. It hits really hard.

I presume that was supposed to be Obsidian Squadron Pilot x3 since thats the squadron I fly at 100 points lately.

Rhymer has been a great investment in my last few league and tourney games. That alpha strike will strip the shields from a b-wing letting the TIEs finish them off or killing a HWK or X-wing in one shot. In all but one game he's let off both APTs no problem.

I am going to try this next Wed, more for fun than competitive but am hopeful it may just work better than expected.

Vader + SqL + assault

Rhymer + VI + assault + seismic

Jonus + VI + assault + seismic

100pts

Posted this purely to hear what you expect the results to be, epic fail, good vs swarm etc

I am going to try this next Wed, more for fun than competitive but am hopeful it may just work better than expected.

Vader + SqL + assault

Rhymer + VI + assault + seismic

Jonus + VI + assault + seismic

100pts

Posted this purely to hear what you expect the results to be, epic fail, good vs swarm etc

Fail? You will do some upfront damage - but will it be enough to compensate the fact that you have only 3 x 2 firepower thereafter? I doubt it.

Last night I flew:

Two avengers

One alpha

Rhymer with ptl, homing missile, advanced proton torpedo.

This list did amazingly well as I put away an X-wing each round before it got to shoot. I also flew like garbage and still snuck out a win. I five k turned my alpha off the mat by a hair. It was close.

Any way Rhymer is the only bomber pilot I use consistently and have success with. He was made to shoot APTs at X-wings. Ptl helps him get the most out of his torps and missiles.

Just my thoughts

Maybe we just aren't comparing his cost correctly. Different effectiveness when his APT is used on an academy tie vs a rookie pilot, etc.

Look at him compared to Wedge. 5 less points for only 2 less pilot skill, 1 less attack die, and heck, he can take 1 more damage (ignoring chances of crits). Sure, Rhymers ability only works for secondaries, so you HAVE to put ordinance. And you HAVE to put PTL on him to consistently use APT. But some would argue that you HAVE to have some way to protect wedge to make him effective passed round 1, so you will be wasting some points there. Maybe the argument is a stretch, idk.

It is difficilt to quantify that auto APT delivery system and its effectiveness, as it changes against different squads. The APT almost gurantees 5 hits with PTL. A defending x wing will roll 1.25 dodges on average with focus. Rhymer will score 4 hits automatically before PS 6 and below get to shoot. With one more shot from a high PS, Rhymer made your opponent lose upwards of 26 points for garven, while it REALLY only cost you 6 for APT + 3 for Rhymers ability. I won't count PTL as it will still be effective.

Thats 9 pts vs 21 for a rookie who did no damage. I mean, Rhymer will still be able to dogfight, unlike the rookie, which I have found bombers to be quite good at. A range 1 TL+F will hit hard enough, imo.

This is mostly ranting, though, just trying to justify him, possibly. I tend to trust game designer's and hope they had SOME reasoning that us players are just missing. Maybe he fit into some overpowering squads if he cost less.

... With one more shot from a high PS, Rhymer made your opponent lose upwards of 26 points for garven, while it REALLY only cost you 6 for APT + 3 for Rhymers ability. I won't count PTL as it will still be effective.

Thats 9 pts vs 21 for a rookie who did no damage....

Rhymers ability is 4 points actually ... the abilities of all the other unique pilots cost 1 or 2 points. Even Solo's, Ten Numb' and Hortons abilities are only 2 points. Maarek's is only 1 point btw.

Now we got a Rhymer for 4 points. Is this an error? Has QA failed? ... I don't know.

Sure, if Han Solo would cost 48 points, ppl would still say that they used him in games and had won and fun using him ... even there were less points left for upgrades.

But the point is: Rhymer is at least 2 points too much. For 24 points he would still be fine.

But no - he must be 26 points?!!!

I'm thinking now that part of the cost increase on Rhymer is to make up for some over all lower cost for bombers, compared to other ships. Base bomber is 16, obviously lower to put missiles on. However, the low PS means there is great risk that your bomber will die with something in the tubes, due to focus from high PS enemies. Or maybe FFG understood that there is counter play to bombers where fancy flying into range 1 (range 3 against clusters) by your enemy could completely prevent the missile from firing. For these reasons they could have lowered the bombers cost, since there is so much risk involved. Maybe for Rhymer they removed this risk cost since he is high PS, and (more likely) he no longer has the risk of being in a bad range for his secondaries, so they put the points back in that they took away from the scims and gammas.

There is likely more to calculating ship cost than just the stat numbers and having or not having EPT slots and an ability. I just can't imagine that FFG did not have a logical reason for this decision. All of us players have come to the same conclusion about potential overcost, so SOMEONE at FFG must have thought of it before us, and had a logical reason behind it.

I think i know that you are reffering to. But like I already stated at the beginning: The only discount in a bomber is the free bomb slot. Or the other way around: You get the bomber for 1 point less compared to the value of its stats and all upgrade slots.

Better then nothing ... yeah I don't want to complain about this. Even if I fancied an autoloader or something alike ...

this Attack Wings' don't discard used torps, just make them 'good' again by using an action.

Maybe they really rised his point costs because of his deathly APT skills ... Or maybe it was just a fault which wasn't corrected in time. I don't know. Maybe a tester or a designer is ready to make a statement?

If they really were 'in' testing Rhymer throughoutly and giving him a 4 for his deathly blows ... why did Jonus got away with only 1 point? Jonus ability could be even worse then Rhymers, when it comes to deathly blows.

The designers also have to think ahead. Jonus's ability is limited by having to build your squad around secondary weapons, which adds up. If Jonus was released in wave 1, he wouldn't have as big of an impact. Rhymer has a similar issue at the moment. There are so few torpedoes/missiles that work really well with his ability at the moment. Advanced Torpedoes and Cluster Missiles use his ability the best. Adding 1 range to a lot of the options can be nice, but hardly the most effective.

But how long will that remain? How many more Torpedo/Missile options will we get? How many will be limited to range 1 or 1-2? With the cost of Rhymer, the designers no longer have to really worry about cost of new weapons in that range that might become too powerful at a cheaper cost. If Rhymer was cheaper, it would be likely they would have to adjust costs of other Torpedoes/Missiles to keep him balanced, which would hurt them as options for other ships. I don't mind the cost, as I really do like range 3 Cluster Missiles.

Maybe we will get some range 1 heavy rockets after the epic scale ships are released!

Maybe we will get some range 1 heavy rockets after the epic scale ships are released!

Or, perhaps, something that's only Range 3, or most epically for him, only Range 2...

Yeah the Heavy Rockets are still missing ... and the Mag Pulse Rockets.

And in TIE Fighter there where also Space Bombs that you shot like a Heavy Rocket, but with even more power and less range.

Those Space Bombs weren't Proton Bombs nor Seismic Charges. They had no spash damage whatsoever ...

I hope you are right and there will be Heavy Rockets ... limited on range 2!

Then Rhymer could finally prove his worth.

Oh I forgot the Advanced Concussion Missiles my favourite warheads in TIE Fighter

Ok Starkiller, have faith in furure releases...

... meanwhile on planet Earth:

What do you think? Is this squad competitive?

= 100

5 Blockers and a Star

I got another Rhymer list.

There it goes:

I feel like the Bombers, in general, should have been given an ability akin to bringing the Attack Wing Secondary Weapon mechanic to X-Wing.

For those that don't know: Most Secondary Weapons in AW aren't discarded, but 'disabled' when fired. It requires an action to re-enable them. They still typically(if not always) require a Target Lock, so it's a bit of a process, but would have gone a long way to really making Bombers feel more like something carrying ordnance. I just don't know anyone that puts more than one Secondary Weapon on any ship.

Oh I forgot the Advanced Concussion Missiles my favourite warheads in TIE Fighter

Ok Starkiller, have faith in furure releases...

... meanwhile on planet Earth:

What do you think? Is this squad competitive?

40 points

Major Rhymer

Advanced Proton Torpedoes, Homing Missiles, Push the Limit

12 points

Academy Pilot #1

12 points

Academy Pilot #2

12 points

Academy Pilot #3

12 points

Academy Pilot #4

12 points

Academy Pilot #5

= 100

5 Blockers and a Star

I've thought about this one a few times, but never tried it out. I did try one replacing 5 Ties with 4 BSP with adrenaline rush / VI. It went okay. I wanted to make that APT take out a ship before it shoots. I think your list could work. Hopefully you'll get both secondaries off before blowing up.

I feel like the Bombers, in general, should have been given an ability akin to bringing the Attack Wing Secondary Weapon mechanic to X-Wing.

For those that don't know: Most Secondary Weapons in AW aren't discarded, but 'disabled' when fired. It requires an action to re-enable them. They still typically(if not always) require a Target Lock, so it's a bit of a process, but would have gone a long way to really making Bombers feel more like something carrying ordnance. I just don't know anyone that puts more than one Secondary Weapon on any ship.

bombers getting double use out of a single upgrade would be great. wish they done that. could even introduce a ship upgrade that allows it or a title card?

Tie Bomber Title Card [cost = ?] Useable by Tie Bomber only

Hidden Arsenal - When this ship uses ordinance turn that upgrade card face down instead of discarding it. Action: Turn one ordinance card face up and place a token on it. This ordinance can now be reused once before it is discarded.

There could even be another requirement for flipping ordinance cards up such as adding a stress token, performing a green manouvre or removing a target lock but imo taking an action to reactivate ordinance should be enough.

Yeah the Heavy Rockets are still missing ... and the Mag Pulse Rockets.

And in TIE Fighter there where also Space Bombs that you shot like a Heavy Rocket, but with even more power and less range.

Those Space Bombs weren't Proton Bombs nor Seismic Charges. They had no spash damage whatsoever ...

I hope you are right and there will be Heavy Rockets ... limited on range 2!

Then Rhymer could finally prove his worth.

The X-wing miniature game is not the X-Wing PC Game nor is it , TIE Fighter, or X-wing vs TIE Fighter or any other computer game.

I loved those games, but I think trying to match the miniature game to a computer game is a very bad idea.

I feel like the Bombers, in general, should have been given an ability akin to bringing the Attack Wing Secondary Weapon mechanic to X-Wing.

For those that don't know: Most Secondary Weapons in AW aren't discarded, but 'disabled' when fired. It requires an action to re-enable them. They still typically(if not always) require a Target Lock, so it's a bit of a process, but would have gone a long way to really making Bombers feel more like something carrying ordnance. I just don't know anyone that puts more than one Secondary Weapon on any ship.

This would be awesome. At least the bombs should be threaded that way - i mean ... wtf could the bombers carry only a single bomb? ... but if you could disable and reuse them, this would be quite nice.

Yeah the Heavy Rockets are still missing ... and the Mag Pulse Rockets.

And in TIE Fighter there where also Space Bombs that you shot like a Heavy Rocket, but with even more power and less range.

Those Space Bombs weren't Proton Bombs nor Seismic Charges. They had no spash damage whatsoever ...

I hope you are right and there will be Heavy Rockets ... limited on range 2!

Then Rhymer could finally prove his worth.

The X-wing miniature game is not the X-Wing PC Game nor is it , TIE Fighter, or X-wing vs TIE Fighter or any other computer game.

I loved those games, but I think trying to match the miniature game to a computer game is a very bad idea.

If you would open your eyes you would notice that FFG is designing exactly this way.

Sorry, I mean no offence .. but this had to be said.

I feel like the Bombers, in general, should have been given an ability akin to bringing the Attack Wing Secondary Weapon mechanic to X-Wing.

For those that don't know: Most Secondary Weapons in AW aren't discarded, but 'disabled' when fired. It requires an action to re-enable them. They still typically(if not always) require a Target Lock, so it's a bit of a process, but would have gone a long way to really making Bombers feel more like something carrying ordnance. I just don't know anyone that puts more than one Secondary Weapon on any ship.

This would be awesome. At least the bombs should be threaded that way - i mean ... wtf could the bombers carry only a single bomb? ... but if you could disable and reuse them, this would be quite nice.

The Bomber was released late enough for the designers to know the sheer unlikelihood of any one ship ever being equipped with more than one Secondary Weapon. I really don't believe being able to re-enable a card that would otherwise be discarded to be overpowered, and would go a long way to maintaining the Bomber's relevance through the duration of the game. Which is, effectively, the problem with the Bomber. It's too costly to load it up, and it's just not that great post-merge. Although, I will say, it isn't horrible by any means without ordnance, and can actually be quite functional.