I think that part was directed at me. I'm pretty sure I said something to that effect.

Yep, I was responding to you

I agree completely on PtL - it really is just flat out better than expose. You CAN craft ways to use it, but they are usually sub optimal, but I do think we can cook up at least one list where it is a logical and beneficial upgrade.

Anyway, I often use the same logic on green squadron A-Wings w/ PTL vs a Rookie X-Wing. The Green Squadron A-wing is just as likely to do damage with focus and target lock as the x-wing is with just one or the other. It seems not many people agree with me on that one, though...

I feel like there's something that we're missing when it comes to Expose... There's a reason the developers thought that it was more powerful than a second action, and I feel like everyone has just written it off without truly trying to make good use of it first.

I very much agree... I don't think they slipped in a "bad" card so much as an "optional" card... :-)

Yep, I was responding to you

I think that part was directed at me. I'm pretty sure I said something to that effect.

Oops, I was reading the nested quotes syntactically like a programming language.

Green A Wings with PtL aren't bad.

Greens with PTL are amazing right up until they're dead.

Which can happen very suddenly, alas. Not necessarily QUICKLY, mind - but sudden.

It is not realy fair to compare Expose to focus.

Focus is a short term "right now!" action to improve on your shooting (or defence).

Expose is an action for the more long term planning of the game.

When you have a saved TL, can lend a focus and have navigated so that you are safe, that is when expose kick in.

The rest of the time, sure, use the focus/TL.

In that sence, Expose is more like a torpedo/missile, but you can use it more than once.

This is very dependent on tha gameplay. If you know that you cannot create these situations, it clearly is not the right upgrade.

If you try to use expose as a focus, you will fail.

(might be a thing as a desperate last chance in certain situations though, when what you need is extra dice)

Actually you might have it just there, Gain the TL on an earlier round, have Kyle pass the focus and Expose might be good.. But even then it needs SO much setting up that 4pts feels too much.

Actually you might have it just there, Gain the TL on an earlier round, have Kyle pass the focus and Expose might be good.. But even then it needs SO much setting up that 4pts feels too much.

Its just like you want to use Maarek Stele and you want to get his ability working ... ^^

Actually you might have it just there, Gain the TL on an earlier round, have Kyle pass the focus and Expose might be good.. But even then it needs SO much setting up that 4pts feels too much.

Its just like you want to use Maarek Stele and you want to get his ability working ... ^^

Umm I don't think that will work.. Last time I looked Maarek was Imperial and Kyle was a Rebel

Actually you might have it just there, Gain the TL on an earlier round, have Kyle pass the focus and Expose might be good.. But even then it needs SO much setting up that 4pts feels too much.

It is not the option for the cirkle and shoot game.

If you play more of a hit and run game though

It would be something for round 4/5 isch

turn 1 +2 ships fly againts the enemies and fire as usual

turn 3 the fly past and do TL

turn 4 and/or 5 they turn and do another run, using the TL + expose + the option of lending a focus.

But YES ther is a bit of setting up. This is the difference between the the game on paper and the game on the board.

Actually you might have it just there, Gain the TL on an earlier round, have Kyle pass the focus and Expose might be good.. But even then it needs SO much setting up that 4pts feels too much.

Its just like you want to use Maarek Stele and you want to get his ability working ... ^^

Umm I don't think that will work.. Last time I looked Maarek was Imperial and Kyle was a Rebel

Aaah ... the pain .... common you know what I mean: the effort to make things working

I've found a focus or target lock ontop of expose is generally enough to be good - look at the probability of Focus + 4 dice, vs focus and TL + 3 dice. Kyle, Dutch, Garven - all work with expose. The minus 1 die on defense is tough - but not so bad if you're not getting shot much - which makes it great on a falcon - or an interceptor with engine.

Try Expose on a saber squadron pilot - flying with someone that has squad leader....

Thats what I posted before.

Lets post it again:

I am heartily in favor of this squad. As a Rebel player, any time an Interceptor wants to willingly take a hit to his ability to evade my shots, I am absolutely down for that.

Your avatar is just a disguise?

I wouldn't dare to try this list ... unless you like the challenge.

As an imperial its even more difficult to get a use of Expose unless your pilot is named Vader

With the firesprays maybe? Boba? Kath? .... at least it comes with the sprays ...!

Isnt expose on a firespray at rng 3 just a cheaper HCL? You get 4 dice and 2 defense dice. Obviously not quite the same as you lose that extra action and the only 2 firesprays a that can get it are high enough PS that squad leader will be rough.

Again, is it possible and a little useful? Sure. Is PTL better? Almost always. When is it to better? When wedge is shooting at your 1 agility ship because 0 dice is zero dice (and for non bwing/falcons better offense if you survive) Oh wait, with PTL I can still barrel roll out 1 range category to down his dice or up mine AND take an evade token. PTL is just more useful more of the time regardless of what the rest of your flight is doing.

If PTL was 4pts and expose was 3pts most would still take PTL over expose.

DANG! Then Expose is just to make beginners lose. Those evil designers ...

...Oh! What about Darth Vader? He has two actions per turn and has low base attack. I'm not sure it's worth the 4 points still, but that's the one instance I can see it working.

My son ran Vader with Expose (and Engine Upgrade) to great effectiveness against me, in conjunction with Soontir Fel. I think it helped that he had higher PS values than I did, so Vader usually shot first and within Range 1. 4 attack dice is nothing to snuff at when your opponent can consistently outmanuever you (with Boost) and outshoot you (with Expose).

I think in this case, Expose is worth the points. My two cents.

I consider Expose to basically be a reuseable torpedo that can go on people without ordanance slots. I always use it with a TL and it does make it very situational but then again most of the cards in the game are situational. It really has to be on something with at least 3 attack and preferably at least 2 agility. It costing an action is similiar to losing your TL to shoot that missile but now you can keep the TL if you have it. Last list i ran was a 4 ship build and i gave it to wedge because that minus 1 agility to them and now your plus 1 attack is really nice. I also usually only used it when it was a range 2 or greater standoff so they didnt hit back as hard as at range 1. Either way i like expose but you dont use it every turn. You might use it 4 or 5 times in a single games which is more than a one use torpedo.

What about this situation

A tiefigher has locaed itself behind the enemie and is safe on range 2. (not an unusual scenario)

It gets 2 dice for attack

Average is 1 hit but might get 2

with focus its 1,5 hits but might get 2

with expose its also 1,5 hits but might get _3_

So...in this scenario expose is better than focus.

In this scenario, expose also improves the chance of geting criticals (also better tha focus)

That's basically why I want to fool around with it. Yes, the math of average damage says that it's not very good. But math only tells half the story. It is hard to quantify the effect of getting that extra hit rolled, even though it may only happen 1/8 times. More over, rolling that 3rd hit means quite a bit more damage. Against an X wing, it's a garenteed hit, where as the two hits you rolled with a focus is more likely to do no damage at all. This is the scenario that makes expose seem like it could be much better in play than in math.

Lower dexterity must not be a bad thing in all situations.

You can use this this to make your ship look tempting as a target.

-Sure, you might take som damage and even get the ship killed, but it might be better than having the enemies shoot at another ship.

the first situation that comes to my mind is if the other ship is damaged

100 points

I intend on trying this the next time I can get a game in:

Vader, Concussion Missile, Expose

Howl Runner, Push the Limits

Black Squadron, Draw Their Fire

Black Squadron, Draw Their Fire

Academy Pilot

Isnt expose on a firespray at rng 3 just a cheaper HCL? You get 4 dice and 2 defense dice. Obviously not quite the same as you lose that extra action and the only 2 firesprays a that can get it are high enough PS that squad leader will be rough.

Again, is it possible and a little useful? Sure. Is PTL better? Almost always. When is it to better? When wedge is shooting at your 1 agility ship because 0 dice is zero dice (and for non bwing/falcons better offense if you survive) Oh wait, with PTL I can still barrel roll out 1 range category to down his dice or up mine AND take an evade token. PTL is just more useful more of the time regardless of what the rest of your flight is doing.

If PTL was 4pts and expose was 3pts most would still take PTL over expose.

4 points + an action every turn is more expensive than 7 points in my opinion. PTL cost 3 points, oh, and you can't take it and expose.

Trading an agility dice for an attack dice is pretty pricy, but I can see when you might want to. But trading an agility dice AND your action for an attack dice (pluss it costs 4 points) is not a good deal. I don't think I would take expose if it cost 1 point.

The problem is that one extra dice isn't much better than simply taking a target lock or focus.

So, I tried doing the math too and I'm pretty sure your math is wrong

Here's the thing: it's better to focus to maximise your hits if you ignore the defence roll. If you include the defence roll the situation is a bit different. Here's a rough-and-dirty breakdown of the numbers for a TIE fighter shooting at a focused X-Wing (based on the actual number of hits which get through, if the X-wing burns its focus on defence):

If the TIE focused:

2 Points of Damage = 7.91%

1 PoD = 31.64%

no PoD = 60.45%

If the TIE exposed but didn't focus:

3 PoD = 1.76%

2 PoD = 11.13%

1 PoD = 27.73%

no PoD = 59.38%

So in this scenario it is better for the TIE to expose than focus- 12.89% chance of at least two damaging hits as opposed to 7.91%. The chance of scoring any damaging hits is about the same (at about 40%) but just slightly favouring expose. I haven't run the numbers for other ships yet (because I have mostly played Imperial TIE swarms, so it was the obvious place to start). Whether it is worth 4pts (and the loss of agility) is a whole different question of course, but I thought it was worth challenging the idea that focus gives superior numbers. I think it may be reasonable given the flexibility it gives you to decide whether you need to be more aggressive vs more defensive turn by turn, and it gives TIE variants (I'm thinking TIE advanced particularly) a much-needed attacking boost.

TL;DR - Focus gives more hits on average but not necessarily more damage.

ETA: PtL can give both a TL and Focus, which will tilt the numbers a bit BUT it gives a stress, limiting you in the next turn (so it is hard to calculate the absolute utility).