On the Imperial side you can have something like this:

Give the Sabers a lock and let them have their Expose. But I woudn't recomment it.

UPDATE:

Now you have the opportunity to expose + TL + focus. Wow. Better not lose one of the Sabers.

the main bonus is not in the average result but in the top result.

No focus or TL can make a tiefighter cause 3 hits. (unless on range 1)

Right - like I said; it adds potential for a bigger damage spike, but the actual result in terms of hits generated can be all over the place. Sometimes more dice just means more frustration and rage when you take that range 1, 5 dice shot with Wedge + Expose and still only manage to roll a single hit, or nothing but a combination of blanks and eyeballs.

As someone pointed out; you could take, say, Garven, or Kyle, and/or Dutch, and with the right pilot (Chewie?) have them passing off focus and/or target locks to the ship with Expose, so that you were able to expose AND maximize the shot as well as is possible in the game.

The issue, then, is that you're now building your entire squad focus-built around the purpose of making more effective a single pilot upgrade card which is already, at least arguably, overpriced for the effect that it grants. It just raises the question for me: is building your entire squad with the singleminded purpose of making a single, overpriced card more effective really worth it? Is that more cost effective, or just throwing good points after bad?

The problem I feel is it's not 4 points better than either Focus of TL... Now in a Rebel force all your ships have both so I don't think it will ever be worthwhile. In a Imperial Force however it may work OK with a Squad Leader in the force. So you focus and then the Squad Leader allows you to Expose.

I agree - and the even bigger problem is that it's a point more expensive than PTL, which lets you potentially focus AND target lock, for the cost of a stress. It's an interesting card - I think for 2 points it would have been very intriguing, but for 4 points, to me, it really drops itself from a fun gamble to a bad investment. Might it pay off with 4 hits/crits? Sure. Is it statistically less reliably going to produce, say, 2-3 hits/crits than a 3-dice attack backed by Focus and Target lock? Yep.

As for your other point, I tend to approach squad building from the Rebel side, so maybe there are some interesting possibilities from the Imperial side, that's a good point. The fact it costs MORE than PTL is just kind of a deal breaker for me, since PTL may not be as potentially powerful but is also much more versatile depending on your layout. PTL makes that ship much more self-sufficient. Expose, if you want to use it effectively, makes that ship even more dependent on the rest of your squad, which can snowball fast on you.

I think for 2 points it would have been very intriguing, but for 4 points, to me, it really drops itself from a fun gamble to a bad investment.

I think this pretty much sums it up.

For 2 points, Expose would be probably worth a gamble at one of your noname pilots with elite slot. 4 points is more a bad joke.

Expose doesn't work with autoblaster though.

Expose doesn't work with autoblaster though.

Of course not

Expose doesn't work with autoblaster though.

That's right. I was thinking it was Jan that didn't work with secondaries, and went back and reread and saw she does. So that seals it for me on the APT list then. I don't believe that I've fallen into the pit of "built your entire squad around 1 card" with that one though. Jan can give her squad leader to Garvin for a TL, and Garvin can pass his Focus off to her for defense. He's completely self sufficient by himself. And Jan is as good as a HWK can be... which is debatable on how good that is to begin with. Between Jan's increased health via Chewy and lack of any real threat by herself, Garvin's APT, and Ibtisam's Expose, there is no single person to target first, and whomever dies first, the other two are still fully functional. If Jan is left by herself, she's not a big threat, but that can be said about any HWK. At least with the Ion Turret she should be able to deal with a single ship just fine.

The problem is that taking Focus as an action is better than using Expose. And Expose also happens to cost 4 points, an EPT slot, and reduces your agility by one. And PtL for Focus + TL obviously blows it out of the water.

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3+ hits 4 hits

1.5625 98.4375 84.375 42.1875 3 dice + focus = 2.25

0.0244 99.9756 98.877 82.3975 3 dice + focus + TL = 2.8125

6.25 93.75 68.75 31.25 6.25 4 dice = 2.0

Well ... Expose ... would be somewhat interesting at a cost of 1 or 2 points as a 'gamble' feature. A price of 4 Points makes this upgrade a strategic one and its just not worth it to build your squad around the one using the Expose upgrade.

There are 2 occasions where Expose could work somewhat on a single ship (external factors excluded)

1: Han Solo + Gunner (so many re-rolls; maybe the best chance of a natural 4 hit attack)

2: Darth Vader (turns his T/A into a vanilla X-Wing)

I like the thought process for Han. I really want to find a way for Expose to work, but I don't see it yet. I don't think the numbers still work out, but lets try.

Lets look at it without considering Gunner first. Say Han uses Expose, the next question is: how many hits does he need to get on the first roll to keep that roll? Here are the net results of one roll + reroll, for deciding to stick with 1-4 hits.

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3+ hits 4 hits

5.8594 94.1406 70.7031 35.5469 12.1094 4 dice Han, reroll less than 4 hits = 2.125

4.2969 95.7031 78.5156 52.7344 10.5469 4 dice Han, reroll less than 3 hits = 2.375

1.9531 98.0469 90.2344 41.0156 8.2031 4 dice Han, reroll less than 2 hits = 2.375

0.3906 99.6094 73.0469 33.2031 6.6406 4 dice Han, reroll less than 1 hit = 2.125

To get the highest chance of getting 4 hits, you obviously reroll anything with less than 4 hits. The problem is that it's only a 12.1% chance of getting those 4 hits, and still only a 35.5% chance of getting 3+ hits. Rolling 4 dice, without gunner, your best bet is to reroll if you don't get 3 hits. Rerolling less than 3 hits vs less than 2 hits has the same average damage, but the distribution for rerolling less than 3 hits will get more hits on your target when you consider the defender's evasion dice.

Bottom line, Han is still getting less average hits with 4 dice + his reroll ability, than a 3 dice X-Wing with TL + Focus. And he has LESS of a chance to land 3+ hits than 3 dice with just focus. Ouch! Now lets see what happens if Han drops Expose, and uses Focus as his action instead.

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3 hits

0.9033 99.0967 90.9668 66.5771 3 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 3 hits = 2.566

0.2441 99.7559 97.5586 48.7793 3 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 2 hits = 2.46

0.0244 99.9756 85.6934 42.8467 3 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 1 hit = 2.28

The choice with Han rolling 3 dice with focus is simple: if you can't get 3 hits, then reroll. In this scenario, focus works out better in every possible way than Expose, except for the 10% chance of landing 4 hits with Expose.

But to be fair, how often is Han really rolling only 3 dice? Large base + 360 firing arc = lots of range 1 shots. So lets look at Han + Expose at 5 dice.

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3+ hits 4+ hits 5 hits

3.0273 96.9727 81.8359 51.5625 21.2891 6.1523 5 dice Han, reroll less than 5 hits = 2.578

2.5391 97.4609 84.7656 59.3750 33.9844 5.6641 5 dice Han, reroll less than 4 hits = 2.812

1.5625 98.4375 90.6250 75.0000 28.1250 4.6875 5 dice Han, reroll less than 3 hits = 2.968

0.5859 99.4141 96.4844 59.3750 22.2656 3.7109 5 dice Han, reroll less than 2 hits = 2.812

0.0977 99.9023 83.7891 51.5625 19.3359 3.2227 5 dice Han, reroll less than 1 hit = 2.578

The choice here is a little less clear, but is probably to reroll if you get less than 3 hits. You can be gutsy and try to get 4 hits, but you'll do slightly less damage. Best bet is to take 3 hits if you get it, since the expected value is 2.5 hits.

Here is 4 dice Han + focus for comparison.

0 hits 1+ hits 2+ hits 3+ hits 4 hits

0.2670 99.7330 96.5286 82.1091 53.2700 4 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 4 hits = 3.316

0.1022 99.8978 98.6710 93.1503 39.9216 4 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 3 hits = 3.316

0.0198 99.9802 99.7421 77.5772 33.2474 4 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 2 hits = 3.105

0.0015 99.9985 95.2927 74.1165 31.7642 4 dice Han + Focus, reroll less than 1 hit = 3.011

With 4 dice Han + Focus, the choice is simple: reroll if you don't get 4 hits. You can also play it safe and keep 3 hits, which nets you the same average number of hits. Technically keeping 3 hits is worse against ships that have defensive dice, but it's lower variability than rerolling 3 hits. In any event, 4 dice + focus on Han is ALWAYS going to do better than 5 naked dice, except for that 5% chance of getting 5 hits.

So, summary: using Expose on Han is worse than just using Focus. If you get Gunner, then Marksmanship + Gunner will be better than Expose + Gunner in every possible way, except for a very very small chance of getting 5 hits. I could run the numbers to see exactly how this works out against ships with various agility / focus / evade tokens, but I doubt it would make much of a difference.

With Han, you might be able to make a case for a 2 ship list with Kyle and Han, like this:

Han, Expose, Gunner, Chewie, Shield Upgrade

Kyle, Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Moldy Crow, Stealth

Still have 3 points, not sure what is best to throw in - maybe throw on the Falcon title and determination on Kyle? Han can Expose with Focus at range one, or maybe range 2 if the situation is right. I still have to think that other options are better though....

Yup. That's why my entire premise is based on getting 3 actions so you can TL, Focus, and Expose. Or in the case of Han, you'd just need F+Expose.

At range 1, 4 Dice Focus and TL generate 3.75 hits; 5 Dice w/ TL+F (aka, using expose) generates 4.69 hits. The extra action is basically an additional guaranteed hit if you have a TL and Focus.

4 Dice with just F (or TL) generates 3.00, whereas 3 dice with F+TL is 2.81 hits. So it's pretty much a wash to use your second action for Expose instead of TL/F... But Expose also reduces your agility so it would be unwise to do so.

4 Dice with no modifiers is 2.00 hits, and 3 dice with 1 modifier is 2.25. So it's better to not expose as your first action. Ever.



The one thing this doesn't take into account is projected damage. Getting that additional .94 hits from the attack dice may only be a ~20% increase there, but when you look at the damage increase, it's much greater, especially against high agility ships.

Lets take a look at a stealthed TIE rolling 4 evade dice. Lets say you already shot at it with Garvin, so it doesn't have any tokens remaining. A fully tricked out 4 dice attack (F+TL+Ex) will do 2.26 damage. A non-exposed 3 dice attack (F+TL) will only do 1.36 damage. This is a 66% damage increase. If he's hiding behind an asteroid so he gets 5 evade dice, the gain is even greater. 1.90 vs. 1.07 - a 78% damage increase.

So that's what I'm trying to exploit by using expose. Given it requires lots of actions to make it useful, but that extra attack die is worth more added on to the initial 3-4 dice vs. 1 by itself. And building a squad that can properly function with Expose could be a very good stealth destroyer squad. You only need to use it once to make it worth while (a shield upgrade costs 4 points, so an extra damage to negate that shield should be worth 4 points).

Even if you were to gimp every other attack, take a TL and get handed a Focus (lando, SL, garvin) on turn 1, only spending the focus, and then turn 2 taking expose and getting handed a focus... A 3 attack vs. 3 agility ship would do 1.22 + 2.63 = 3.85 damage vs TL+F on both turns yields 1.70+1.70 = 3.40 damage.

So technically you don't need two actions handed to you each turn, as you'll still come out ahead (from a damage point of view) if you only get 1 action handed to you each turn.

...Oh! What about Darth Vader? He has two actions per turn and has low base attack. I'm not sure it's worth the 4 points still, but that's the one instance I can see it working.

I put expose on Vader with engine upgrades. It was very effective. I literally had the enemy on the run so he couldn't shoot at me at all. I was doing some serious damage at range 1 because I kept exposing and barrel rolling or boosting right up on his guys from the rear.

I put expose on Vader with engine upgrades. It was very effective. I literally had the enemy on the run so he couldn't shoot at me at all.

Vader with Engine Upgrade is very effective.

I was doing some serious damage at range 1 because I kept exposing and barrel rolling or boosting right up on his guys from the rear.

Using focus plus barrel roll at range one would have caused even more damage than expose plus barrel roll.

In order for expose to increase damage output it has to be combined with focus and/or target lock. Vader can do that better than anyone else.

And I think that's what the problem boils down to, in the end. Are there ways to make Expose more effective, or to build a squad around maximizing it's use? Absolutely.

But in the end you're still maximizing your use of a bad (overpriced anyway) card, not making the card itself better. Any squad/build/ship/etc you can come up with that could use Expose effectively would still be better served taking something like PTL instead. Even Marksmanship, since it's for all intents and purposes a Focus+ action.

But in the end you're still maximizing your use of a bad (overpriced anyway) card, not making the card itself better. Any squad/build/ship/etc you can come up with that could use Expose effectively would still be better served taking something like PTL instead. Even Marksmanship, since it's for all intents and purposes a Focus+ action.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm pretty sure given a squad of Dutch, Garvin, and Chewie, Expose is better on chewie than Push the Limits is.

Eh, I don't know if I'd agree even then, because if he has the MF title and something like Engine, he'd already have the focus and target lock, AND could dodge fire arcs AND guarantee that one hit per round of combat is going to miss him on top of everything. It's not as direct a comparison since it's less about damage output, but it goes right back to the point of PTL letting you have the focus to use on attack OR defense, and still have the TL to attack, where Expose just gives you an extra die. It just can't compete in overall utility.

First off, if you were building a damage output Falcon you'd probably want Han instead of Chewie to begin with. Chewie is a tank and wins by grinding you down, or surviving long enough for his wingmen to take you out (or at least damage you enough he can finish the job himself).

The LAST thing I would want to do with Chewie is ever, ever have a round where I'm willingly stripping him of his ability to roll a defense die and turn him into a sitting duck. Like, ever. Never ever. PTL would let me Focus + TL on turns I wanted to boost my attack odds, Evade + Focus if I wanted to turtle up, and Evade + TL if I felt like splitting the difference.

Or I could lose my single defense die and get an extra attack die. It just doesn't stack up.

Lets take a look at a stealthed TIE rolling 4 evade dice. Lets say you already shot at it with Garvin, so it doesn't have any tokens remaining. A fully tricked out 4 dice attack (F+TL+Ex) will do 2.26 damage. A non-exposed 3 dice attack (F+TL) will only do 1.36 damage. This is a 66% damage increase. If he's hiding behind an asteroid so he gets 5 evade dice, the gain is even greater. 1.90 vs. 1.07 - a 78% damage increase.

That's true. 4 dice with TL + Focus will obviously do better than 3 dice with TL + Focus. But it's fundamentally not a fair comparison, because you need to get TWO actions onto your Exposed ship, from an external ship, to add one dice vs simply using PtL on the ship. It would be far easier, and more effective, to simply run Jan Ors and give out +1 attack at no action cost.

But in the end you're still maximizing your use of a bad (overpriced anyway) card, not making the card itself better. Any squad/build/ship/etc you can come up with that could use Expose effectively would still be better served taking something like PTL instead. Even Marksmanship, since it's for all intents and purposes a Focus+ action.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm pretty sure given a squad of Dutch, Garvin, and Chewie, Expose is better on chewie than Push the Limits is.

Except Focus is better at dealing damage than Expose anyway, so I'd just go for a positional or defensive EPT instead, or Focus and/or Target Lock to have them aid each other. You can get Expose-like effects by forcing yourself into Range 1 anyway, and at less of a risk to yourself as you don't turn all of your opponent into Wedge Antilles.

But in the end you're still maximizing your use of a bad (overpriced anyway) card, not making the card itself better. Any squad/build/ship/etc you can come up with that could use Expose effectively would still be better served taking something like PTL instead. Even Marksmanship, since it's for all intents and purposes a Focus+ action.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm pretty sure given a squad of Dutch, Garvin, and Chewie, Expose is better on chewie than Push the Limits is.

Technically true, unless you can't line everything up perfectly, or one of your ships dies. Then you're dead in the water. You're also putting all your eggs in one basket, namely, keeping all three ships alive, and only one is dealing significant damage. It's probably the best use of Expose that I have heard of yet, but it's still very brittle. I think you would be better off with PtL and Falcon upgrade, and focus + evade with Chewie every round, he'll live WAY longer: 1 agility and an evade token in the bank vs 0 agility and no evades. No brainer to me.

Chewie + PtL + Falcon (46)

Dutch + Ion Turret (28)

Garven (26)

.... is better than

Chewie + Expose (46)

Dutch + Ion Turret (28)

Garven (26)

Edit: in the above, Chewie can evade, grab a TL or focus from his buddies, and use the other as his action. So he will be shooting with TL + focus every round, even if one other ship dies.

But in the end you're still maximizing your use of a bad (overpriced anyway) card, not making the card itself better. Any squad/build/ship/etc you can come up with that could use Expose effectively would still be better served taking something like PTL instead. Even Marksmanship, since it's for all intents and purposes a Focus+ action.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm pretty sure given a squad of Dutch, Garvin, and Chewie, Expose is better on chewie than Push the Limits is.

Technically true, unless you can't line everything up perfectly, or one of your ships dies. Then you're dead in the water. You're also putting all your eggs in one basket, namely, keeping all three ships alive, and only one is dealing significant damage. It's probably the best use of Expose that I have heard of yet, but it's still very brittle. I think you would be better off with PtL and Falcon upgrade, and focus + evade with Chewie every round, he'll live WAY longer: 1 agility and an evade token in the bank vs 0 agility and no evades. No brainer to me.

Chewie + PtL + Falcon (46)

Dutch + Ion Turret (28)

Garven (26)

.... is better than

Chewie + Expose (46)

Dutch + Ion Turret (28)

Garven (26)

I actually said pretty much this exact same thing with a lot more words in a much less concise fashion, so agreed.

I actually said pretty much this exact same thing with a lot more words in a much less concise fashion, so agreed.

Oops. I just read your post after I posted mine too. Ha ha. Touche.

You could use Expose to get a 5 dice attack(6 at range 1),and TL +Focus with this build.

X-W •Garven Dreis (29pts)
[option-Stealth Device (3pts)]

B-W •Ibtisam (38pts)
Expose (4pts), [option-Fire-Control System (2pts), Shield Upgrade (4pts)]

HWK •Jan Ors (33pts)
Squad Leader (2pts), Nien Nunb (1pts) [option-Ion Cannon Turret (5pts)]

Ibtisam uses expose, Jan passes her action to him to get a TL, Gaven fires first passing his focus on.

or another way would be

Y-W •"Dutch" Vander (33pts)
[option-Ion Cannon Turret (5pts), Stealth Device (3pts), •R5-K6 (2pts)]

B-W •Ibtisam (34pts)
Expose (4pts) [option- Fire-Control System (2pts)]

HWK •Jan Ors (33pts)
Squad Leader (2pts),Nien Nunb (1pts) [option-Ion Cannon Turret (5pts)]

Same again but with Dutch handing out the TL and Jan the Focus.
Jans going to be taking stress with her ability thus a crew of Nien could help to mitigate this.

It wouldn't take much to lose a single ship and have this builds synergy fall apart.

But in the end you're still maximizing your use of a bad (overpriced anyway) card, not making the card itself better. Any squad/build/ship/etc you can come up with that could use Expose effectively would still be better served taking something like PTL instead. Even Marksmanship, since it's for all intents and purposes a Focus+ action.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm pretty sure given a squad of Dutch, Garvin, and Chewie, Expose is better on chewie than Push the Limits is.

Technically true, unless you can't line everything up perfectly, or one of your ships dies. Then you're dead in the water. You're also putting all your eggs in one basket, namely, keeping all three ships alive, and only one is dealing significant damage. It's probably the best use of Expose that I have heard of yet, but it's still very brittle. I think you would be better off with PtL and Falcon upgrade, and focus + evade with Chewie every round, he'll live WAY longer: 1 agility and an evade token in the bank vs 0 agility and no evades. No brainer to me.

Chewie + PtL + Falcon (46)

Dutch + Ion Turret (28)

Garven (26)

.... is better than

Chewie + Expose (46)

Dutch + Ion Turret (28)

Garven (26)

Edit: in the above, Chewie can evade, grab a TL or focus from his buddies, and use the other as his action. So he will be shooting with TL + focus every round, even if one other ship dies.

I would run Dutch + Blaster Turret, Garven, Chewie + Expose + Falcon. Any turn that Chewie can be shot, he runs evade as his action. In the mid game when he can't be a target due to arcs, I'd switch to expose if I could get either a focus or a target lock from Dutch or Garvin.

Anyway, with your statement that PtL is ALWAYS better than Expose, we can disprove that by finding a single scenario where Expose is better. If its not Chewie, Garvin, and Dutch, I'm sure we can find another one. Vader springs...

Well the problem isn't that I don't stand by "always," it's that you could quibble over the definition of "better."
Could you create a specific squad wherein Expose is a better, say, fit? Sure.

Could you create a specific build whereby Expose puts out better damage? Possibly.

Is Expose ever going to be a better value, provide you with better utility, or all around be a better investment of points? Not even if it cost the same as PTL.

I'm not even trying to hate on Expose - I want to like Expose. Everybody wants to like Expose. But it's all sizzle and no steak. Compare that to PTL, where the steak is bigger, tastier, and comes with free sides.

It's just not a contest to my mind.

The very fact that you have to play X-Wing Squad Origami just to make a squad that might justify the existence of Expose...pretty much sums up the value of Expose in a nutshell.

I would run Dutch + Blaster Turret, Garven, Chewie + Expose + Falcon. Any turn that Chewie can be shot, he runs evade as his action. In the mid game when he can't be a target due to arcs, I'd switch to expose if I could get either a focus or a target lock from Dutch or Garvin.

Sadly, you don't have enough actions for Chewie to get TL + Focus, and have Dutch activate his blaster turret. Chewie is stuck shooting with only a focus or TL but not both, unless you don't use Dutch's blaster.

Which statement was that? I just reread my posts and didn't see it.

I would run Dutch + Blaster Turret, Garven, Chewie + Expose + Falcon. Any turn that Chewie can be shot, he runs evade as his action. In the mid game when he can't be a target due to arcs, I'd switch to expose if I could get either a focus or a target lock from Dutch or Garvin.

Sadly, you don't have enough actions for Chewie to get TL + Focus, and have Dutch activate his blaster turret. Chewie is stuck shooting with only a focus or TL but not both, unless you don't use Dutch's blaster.

Anyway, with your statement that PtL is ALWAYS better than Expose, we can disprove that by finding a single scenario where Expose is better. If its not Chewie, Garvin, and Dutch, I'm sure we can find another one. Vader springs...

Which statement was that? I just reread my posts and didn't see it.

I think that part was directed at me. I'm pretty sure I said something to that effect.