In the Balance, Release Candidate
Part 1: Adventure Cards
J.C. Hendee, 4/03/2009

This is the final preview before official release. At this time, the make of the cards is set, though I'm still interested in any comments concerning wording, errors, and the newly included manual. (One further optional House Rule is still pending for the manual.)

Please place any noted feedback in this new topic and not the old topics for the Alpha or Beta releases. ONCE AGAIN... this release is for FFG forum members only. Please do not distribute the file or link elsewhere.

By next Sunday, all final edits will be completed, and I will seek places for the final package to be hosted and available to the fan community in general. Please contact me via PM in the forum or through www.nobledead.com if interested in hosting the package. Only those locations who host it free of any remuneration (including logins or other personal information) will be accepted.

NOTE: Next up in development will be Part 2: Purchase Cards. I don't anticipate these will take long, and as with Part 1: Adventure Cards, the total count and divisions of types will match the standard Purchase deck in most ways.

The file may be downloaded HERE (16.7 mb).

Hi JC,

Must say that this set is shaping up really well and 'll definitely be adding it to my game. Well done!

Just a few comment on the cards:

Great Wyrm – I nearly read this as meaning that your followers can scare the Wyrm away. I assume you mean the followers stand a chance of running. Maybe a possible rewording?

Kephaliceros – A nice idea. How about having it move if you defeat it by less than 3 to give it more of a chance of smashing places up?

Wraith Warrior – when you attack him is it a Battle or a Psychic Combat? This makes a difference when using bonuses for followers and objects.

Duchess/Duke – So do you mean that when you take the follower you choose either the city or village and can get free healing there? If another player takes the card do they have to stick with the same location? May be an idea to remove the option or reword slightly.

Mettle Cup – Won’t this cause problems in the endgame when someone is zapping you with the crown of command and you can just heal all the time?

Battle Blades – Not really sure what you mean with this one. Do you mean that you get a better save if you have two of these?

Currency cards – Does this mean that you don’t show them to the other players when they are drawn?

Gold - Should any gold cards be added to the set to ensure there is not a shortage?

Cheers

Geoff

Cidervampire said:

Got it. I'll have another look

Cidervampire said:

Don't want to make it too destructive. But there are some standard spells that could move it and a new one coming that can interact with it.

Cidervampire said:

I knew this card was going to cause trouble... it may require rethinking ... or replacing as just too far outside of the standard mechanics.

Cidervampire said:

Hmmm... not sure how to clarify without getting too wordy. And you might be overthinking it too much. The word "choose" is not on the card, so it isn't a matter of choice. Can you suggest some changes to wording that might be helpful?

Like with the Prince and Princess, you don't get to keep healing at the castle after you lose either of those, so the same goes with the Duke and Duchess. And healing with these two new nobles is more limited in amount, but available at two locations instead of 1.

Cidervampire said:

Yes, it could cause a supposed stalemate, though I can also see that I need to add "at the end of a turn" to clarify a litte. The begining of any turn other than a lost one always starts with a movement (rolled or otherwise), so the one who has still has to face other issues and can't just sit there. Plus on the missed turn, the CoC weilder can still whack the one with it for a life. Mix that with other hazards in the game, and eventually the coward hanging back around river would be taken out.

Cidervampire said:

OOPS! There's a really bad typo in there. The bottom paragraph should read ... "If combined with the 'Bracers'..." Sheesh... I don't know how I made that goof....

Cidervampire said:

If that's what they say, then yes. Never liked the concept of everyone knowing whose got a lot of currency. It's nonsense! But I won't mess with the standard rules on this one. But with the new forms of non-Gold currency in my expansion, I've made things a little trickier... and there's some risk to jumping someone and trying to take a potentially valuable object you don't get to look at first.

Cidervampire said:

No. Gold is just another form of "Currency," and the types I've added actually increase the amount of currency "value" in the game to higher than what's in the Standard deck. But there's also more ways to lose it too.

Thanks for your notes... and feel free to add more or replay to any of my comments.

HI JC

Maybe we can talk here further about cards instead of making a new topic?

I look forward to your updated cards.

Greetz

-Velhart

Hey V. The new corrections are already hosted at Talismanisland.com

Oke thanks

I will take a look there

JCHendee said:

Hey JC,

I see you have updated a lot of the cards (as i expected) and i see a new Camel !

I like it. It can haul one more object instead of the normal Camel, but you get a penalty for having followers unless you have a water bottle etc

COOL

The are some cards that you forgot ir need maybe a changed.

Crocodile and Razorback still needs the correct word Surprised

Pure Dawn : One question came up !

Because it says the land, i think you must make a exception for the dungeon expansion( that is coming !)

Evil adventures or spirits in the dungeon are in my eyes save from the sun that is shining on the land

Carrier:

Maybe it is better if you say: you lose a life or a random follower ( visit etc...

Skinner post:

Vey good.

So the skinner post are also selling mules, Camel's or other animals who can carry baggage (objects etc) for normal prices...

Cool !

Now you can make a fine selection of animals who are carry objects for you !

You did it again JC

This adds a lot of fun to the game.

I see already another card coming up that are selling camels on a dessert space. ( maybe a idea) A camp in the Dessert . A camel trader haha

Winter Solstice

I have write this one earler on the topic that goes wrong)

But i like it better if the Winter Solstice also mention that (normal)shops(strangers) are close for 3 rounds. Then the card has more impact on cards in the deck.

And i should changed 4th turn into ( end of 3th turn)this makes more sense and explain better i think..

I like the card a lot

--------

Now that i think of it.

What about a meteor fall ( big falling rocks from the sky.

I was thinking about that, when i look to your cool card( volcanic Quake)

Or a moon pearl that can use as a magic object maybe...

Hey V, got your PM. I've been fighting a very bad cold and a lot backlogged work (new novel, etc.), so haven't been able to get back here and really look at stuff.

Velhart said:

I see you have updated a lot of the cards (as i expected) and i see a new Camel ! I like it. It can haul one more object instead of the normal Camel, but you get a penalty for having followers unless you have a water bottle etc.

Yes, and more Camels will be available through the Purchase deck. At this time, I will not be introducing any other alternative "Carrier" Animals or other Followers. But I also introduce two forms of "Baggage" in the Purchase deck for further options in conjunction with stricter House Rules (optional) for Object use.

Velhart said:

Groan!... me an my endless typos. I'll fix it, but I'll wait to through yet another "update" to Part 1 at Jon until the Purchase Deck is finished as well. That one will be a one review process before finalization.

Velhart said:

Pure Dawn : One question came up ! Because it says the land, i think you must make a exception for the dungeon expansion( that is coming !) Evil adventures or spirits in the dungeon are in my eyes save from the sun that is shining on the land

There are a number of "underground" or "otherwhere" board and card expansions, both commercial and fan originated. I don't want to have to anticipate all that might be or will be... so I'll leave that as judgment call for various player groups. It's not to hard to reason out: any place where "dawn" wouldn't be seen thereby wouldn't be affected.

Velhart said:

I can see what you mean, though the critical part is that you can never discard the Carrier. I'll take another look at the wording.

Velhart said:

Winter Solstice is about an ideological observance for those who live near or are a part of the wilderness life. Wassail, as it was properly practice before Catholic assimilation and misrepresentation, didn't affect any but those who practiced it. So choosing which strangers and places it does affect was based on their region of origin as stated on their cards.

There are other events that close down other places and strangers according to their region of origin on them. So in essence, different places and strangers close at different times for different reasons. There's even an Event that "closes" Followers of certain types (Labourer's Day), so lots of opening and closing in different factions instead of all at once.

As to other cards... I've already thought of potential "supplements" for the future focusing on particular card "types" instead of a mix. But I need to finish up base work for In the Balance as a whole... then my next notion is to tackle something different - boardless decks for 'adventuring' in special places for those who don't want to go for a whole new board expansion. The first will be the "Great City", where it is an option along side of the ones on the space (whether you play a forced choice or not).

You will have the option to draw "Great City" cards instead of the three standard City options, with some limitations by the card on when and where you end up, and if and when you can "wander" your way out. Varied things may happen along the way, and not just monsters and villains to defeat. There will also be an opportunity on the correct draw to purchase a "residence" there, with certain benefits depending on the quality of the neighborhood it is in (store Currency at the Bank for safe keeping, store extra objects in your home, gain affluence in the city according to Alignment and your reputation, catch a ship to other corner spaces, drawn an extra Metropolis card while wandering and choose one to discard, get tips and hints as to what you might find in other places in the Land, etc.).

These decks will be a long process of figuring out how to do it right, so people can enjoy some diversity without having to use yet another massive board on the table if they don't wish to. And again, they will be aimed at players who enjoy the "adventure" of the gain versus those just interested only in the Win. So likely these decks will not come quickly. Once the "Great City" is complete, I also have notions (not yet plans) for (in order) the Village ["Shireham" deck], Tavern ["Ale House Inn"], Chapel ["Abbey"], Graveyard "Necropolis," Ruins ["Lost Empire"]... all of these (except the "Great City") are tentative.

First thing I need to do is study up on how some RPGs did encounters in urban settings, then mix that with concepts of mundane encounters and other options with a mix of standard district types found in typical medieval metropolitan settlements.

Now I must be off... energy is waining with this stupid cold, and I still have some chapters in the new book to work on. Back soon.

JCHendee said:

It would be fun, if you draw a city event card that something will happen on the main board.

( a villager is attacked by a enemie etc

Or something with the king or other kind of things( fair,party's, waggon's. ( you can create a lot of things, but will add fun to the game.)

I wonder how it will turn out with your quality of cards.

But it will be indeed a lot of work. If you want a big deck( maybe around 25 or more)

Another thing that would be nice is, if you make a camp in the dessert where there are selling the camels etz

Or a raiders camp in the oasis etc

Or dessert enemies..etc

JC,

I've often stated a similar idea should be implemented for the four corner spaces. Contact me about it and I would be happy to collaborate. I'll give you my lunch hours

Best Regards

DTH

I have an extra incomplete edition of Talisman 3rd Edition which I used to play with the kids when we wanted a quick game. It had a spare deck of City cards in it which I left in and used to just place on the City space.

When you landed on the City you could then either encounter the space or draw a card from the deck and it worked out rather well.

Last year (in the development of Death and Glory) this was suggested as a cheaper alternative to producing boards which was thoguht to be a reasonable idea.

It is always possible to do the same with the Dungeon cards, for instance if your table is not quite big enough to cope!

Hi JC

You have made a lot of nice purchase cards.

I like the lantern and everlight card.

Can you make them as adventure cards too? i like it to put it in my deck

About the Camel. I see that the text from the old version has been changed and both camels has the same text now.( if i look to the purchase cards)

Are you gonna update the adventure card camel ?

Are you gonna make more artifacts for the main deck. I see that you have not so much cards of it.

You could add 7 or 8 more to the deck

Velhart said:

I like the lantern and everlight card. Can you make them as adventure cards too? i like it to put it in my deck

The Adventure deck itself is already "balanced" according to the standard deck... well, almost. So no, I won't be adding any new Objects or Magic Objects to that (and the Lantern and Everlight aren't true magic items).

It is possible that in the future I will do "sub-deck" supplimentals... basically creating more of each of the 7 types of Adventure cards in separate propotional bundles for people to use as they see fit. Likely those will focus mostly on my newer sub-(sub-)-types (such as Obstacles and Challenges for Place cards, etc.) But that's down the road after I tackle other projects of interest to me, such as the "Great City" deck.

Velhart said:

Once the Purchase deck is settled, I will go back and double check that all the matching adventure Objects have the same texts, except where "purchase" of an Object might require something extra or different.

Hi JC

Does winter Solstice effect the land?(all regions etc

It is clarified as worldly, but it will be difficult for players to reach the forest, woods etc if you are in a dungeon or in a forest expansion etc.

Pure dawn:

About that all evil adventures lose 1 turn( does that also effect the land( If it will effect enemy spirits across the land, then it will effect evil adventures too across the land? ( including all regions..)

Labourer's day: does it effect all regions? ( it is clarrified as worldy...

Velhart said:

Yes... any event that does not specifically list a region or space reference is always the whole land... though I can look into rewording it. As to Worldly, that is where the event originates or the realm of influence it comes from, as defined in the included document. It is thereby an event arising from culture and civilization, so it is about people not an area or supernatural force. It does not refer to the event "affecting" a "world".

Velhart said:

Hmmm... that is a shame, isn't it.

Velhart said:

Again, I'm not going to anticipate all the different realms, regions, etc. for the future. Evil Darkness is worded in a similar fashion with no mention of whether Good and Neutral characters "underground" are affected. Pure Dawn should be interpreted in a like fashion to Evil Darkness, by whatever reasoning or methods are used by individual groups of players. Sometimes some ambiguity is necessary when trying to balance the same thing in standard cards.

Velhart said:

Again, "Worldy" doesn't have to do with the board(s). I will go back and add the term "Land" somewhere in its description text. Originally I had thought of using the term "mundane" in place of "worldy" but didn't like it. Also thought of "civilization" or "cultural" but both were too limited for what I wanted to include without adding even more subtypes. Looking for the right sub-type terms was a pain sometimes.

Hi JC,

Have you update the cards already...

I was just wondering about it..

I'll be getting to it shortly.

Hi JC,

I know you said you were not planning on releasing spells for this set but during our game at the weekend I got a card which specifically refers to one of your Spells -It was the Bleeding Heart currency card. Any chance you could release the Spell to go with this card and any other ones that are mentioned on your existing cards?

Cheers

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I don't like to throw things in that create further imbalance and Spells are the worst of that. They have s utterly no rhyme or reason to their distribution, and some in the expansions are a bit much. But as you noted, some of my cards beg for Spell interaction originally planned....

So I will be doing a set of ITB Spell cards of matching count and roughly matching areas of emphasis (lives, strength, movement, combat, miscellaneous,etc.... but no more RANDOMS!) Included will be the the "Heart's Curse" (which interact's with the Bleeding Heart for a nasty and potentially multi-target effect) and "Summon Seige Beast" (which either calls or conjures anew a Kephaliceros under the caster's control).

More later... as right now I'm off to post the finalization of ITB Part 2, Purchase Cards... and the next "typo" update of Part 1, Adventure Cards.

Hi JC

I was just wondering about something.

I saw that you made many adventure cards for neutral characters, but i see almost no cards in your deck that makes you neutral.

So.. i think that they are worthless at this moment unless more cards are to be added to the deck that makes you neutral...

greetz,

Velhart

Actually, compared to the normal deck, there is an equal number of alignment shift influences if not outright cards that shift alignment. And autoshifting alignments is something I've never cared for in the first place. Alignment is too meaningless as it is in Talisman, and making more enforced shifts worsens that aspect. When people choose a character, Alignment should mean something. So... if you want the benefits of being Neutral while using ITB... guess what? Better choose to be Neutral instead of choosing your favorite good or evil potent character and be looking for extra advantages in a shift to Neutral.

JCHendee said:

well, don't know what to say..

i understand that you don't like autoshifting alignments, but the whole aspect of the game about neutral alignment is a little lost with the 4th edition..

I miss that...

That's why i take a look at your cards some minutes ago and saw that it will not increase the chance to be a neutral character while there are some cards in your deck that gives options for neutral characters..

I think that the problem lies on the main board

If i remember right... there are not so many cards in the deck that turn you to good or evil. Right out of my mind i can called Mephistoples and the Angel but further than that uhm....