Seeing as how we are getting away from definitive roles and instead making character creation more versatile, I think it would be a good idea to talk about alternative Aptitudes.
One additional aptitude that comes to mind is Faith? It played a sizable role in the DH1 supplement Blood of Martyrs especially regarding Sororitas and think it would be useful in the core rules for DH 2.0.
Thoughts on this?
Edited by EliorThis is tricky. On the one hand, having a Faith aptitude sort of parallels the Psyker one, and so makes sense for purchasing faith powers that are effectively psychic ones by another name.
On the other hand, the more Aptitudes you introduce, one of two things happens: 1) Not enough options use an Aptitude, making it ineffective to take it (since the XP saved by having it doesn't outway the utility of having a different one) or 2) For every Aptitude introduced, existing options are rebalanced so all Aptitudes have roughly the same utility. If you do this (number 2), you have one of two problems: either 1) PCs still have the same number of Aptitudes going against a wider field of available ones, effectively increasing the cost of most of the options available, or 2) either you increase the number of Aptitudes a PC has so as to not impact the cost of available options, in which case, why introduce new Aptitudes at all?
This is tricky. On the one hand, having a Faith aptitude sort of parallels the Psyker one, and so makes sense for purchasing faith powers that are effectively psychic ones by another name.
On the other hand, the more Aptitudes you introduce, one of two things happens: 1) Not enough options use an Aptitude, making it ineffective to take it (since the XP saved by having it doesn't outway the utility of having a different one) or 2) For every Aptitude introduced, existing options are rebalanced so all Aptitudes have roughly the same utility. If you do this (number 2), you have one of two problems: either 1) PCs still have the same number of Aptitudes going against a wider field of available ones, effectively increasing the cost of most of the options available, or 2) either you increase the number of Aptitudes a PC has so as to not impact the cost of available options, in which case, why introduce new Aptitudes at all?
Interesting information. If the old Faith Powers are just a different type of Psyker Powers, then they might as well just be combined and called Warp Powers or something like that. Maybe even make it an additional "Psyker" Discipline?
Make True Faith an elite advatage? Also can anyone tell me of a blank or psyker with faith powers in the lore?
Edited by Adeptus IneptusOr maybe even Adepta Sororitas an advance in the same manner that Psyker and Untouchable are.
I don't think you should need to be in the Adepta Sororitas to have True Faith, it kills too many story ideas.
My guess is that they will just rip their Faith rules from the Sisters of Battle codex that was just released, since that is what they did for psychic stuff. As for how they implement it, I'm sure they're saving it for a expansion book. Probably some sort of Talent or Trait, rather than an aptitude, though I like the thinking behind the idea of having it be an aptitude. They would need a lot more "faith" related stuff to make it worth taking though.
It might be time for me to give up on this line when that happens.
Make True Faith an elite advatage? Also can anyone tell me of a blank or psyker with faith powers in the lore?
If i remember correctly The Untouchable trait in DH1 excluded the possibility of developing psychic powers or faith abilities in the IHB and BoM.But I don't remember if being a psyker prevented you gaining faith abilities but the Sororitas stuff i think prevented you becoming or being a psyker, I would need to check.
My guess is that they will just rip their Faith rules from the Sisters of Battle codex that was just released, since that is what they did for psychic stuff. As for how they implement it, I'm sure they're saving it for a expansion book. Probably some sort of Talent or Trait, rather than an aptitude, though I like the thinking behind the idea of having it be an aptitude. They would need a lot more "faith" related stuff to make it worth taking though.
Considering that 'new codex' is still largely using rules from a decade ago, they can probably just copy paste the rules from inquisitor's handbook. Or, more likely, the magic space nun powers from BoM. Depends how tight GW pull the leash.
I don't see a reason why people can't have Faith aptitude while being an Untouchable. Think about it, even the Space Wolf Primarch had 2 twin sisters who were that
My guess is that they will just rip their Faith rules from the Sisters of Battle codex that was just released, since that is what they did for psychic stuff.
Judging from past releases, the FFG team has a very different idea of how the Sisters and Faith work compared to the GW studio. I agree with Tom Cruise that it's more likely to see something that resembles BoM, for better or worse.
That being said, I thought there are no Sisters in DH2?
For what it's worth, personally I would simply govern faith via Willpower. It fits to how certain faith-based abilities already worked in DH1, and it kind of makes sense - even regardless of one's interpretation of what AoF "actually" are. Plus, it makes this Aptitude somewhat more important compared to other more combat-oriented ones.
Considering that 'new codex' is still largely using rules from a decade ago [...]
If only..
Yes to a Faith aptitude and to the later introduction of faith talents !
I'd like it if they made a True Faithful Elite Advance. Give it a little tree similar to the Untouchable and there you go. You get a set of Faith powers useable for anyone with the advance and the Faith powers have always been similar to Psychic Powers in how they're implemented. Seems like the best solution to me.
And at what power level should the True Faith magic be? rare and powerful of quiet but reliable?
And at what power level should the True Faith magic be? rare and powerful of quiet but reliable?
Extremely rare and extremely powerful. Back in the good ol' days we had a Sororitas Novice character who kept her True Faith in secret (as: even his player didn't tell it to us, the other players). She was very pious, liked to get around churches, help His followers and she wasn't afraid to get into theological debates. Or at that's what we saw for 50+ session. Then we encountered a full-scale daemonic invasion where our humble Novice burnt all her twentywhatever Fate Points (accumulated during the previous games) in one go and proceeded to completely destroy two Daemon Princes, tear a Keeper of Secrets limb-to-limb and show the door for the whole daemonic army. It was EPIK. As True Faith should be.
20 fate points?! Ouch!
As to the original thought: The Canoness in the reinforcement system has "Faith talents". There is no mention of "pure faith" but the talents must come from somewhere! I suspect it will be an elite advance in some future supplement.
The powers in Inquisitor's Handbook are probably the most reasonable representation of the power level I'd expect, going by the tabletop and fluff. Blood of Martyrs made the Sisters into space wizards.
I like to think of faith as something that Could be very good luck when the warps not in play but gives daemons a hard time that can only be a higher power.
The powers in Inquisitor's Handbook are probably the most reasonable representation of the power level I'd expect, going by the tabletop and fluff. Blood of Martyrs made the Sisters into space wizards.
Having played the old Chapter Approved SoB army list, sisters being space wizards is totally fine by me.
Having played the old Chapter Approved SoB army list, sisters being space wizards is totally fine by me.
Wha-? The CA list that flat out said the Administratum believes AoF to be a product of mass hysteria? The one that said they are "divine inspiration" driving them to higher levels of performance?
... I guess I could see it remaining a matter of interpretation even there. The problem with BoM for me was, there was no option to interpret AoF in any other way. No sign of the previous ambiguity that shrouded Faith in a layer of vagueness. It's gotten to the point where you ought to question how exactly the Marines can continue denying the Emperor is a god, when his servants are capable of shooting beams of light out of their eyes and other such tricks.
Having played the old Chapter Approved SoB army list, sisters being space wizards is totally fine by me.
Wha-? The CA list that flat out said the Administratum believes AoF to be a product of mass hysteria? The one that said they are "divine inspiration" driving them to higher levels of performance?
... I guess I could see it remaining a matter of interpretation even there. The problem with BoM for me was, there was no option to interpret AoF in any other way. No sign of the previous ambiguity that shrouded Faith in a layer of vagueness. It's gotten to the point where you ought to question how exactly the Marines can continue denying the Emperor is a god, when his servants are capable of shooting beams of light out of their eyes and other such tricks.
I don't remember the fluff at all, but rules wise you could do some pretty extraordinary things with acts of faith. 3/4+ invulnerable, auto-passing leadership to not flee, 6s to hit counted as power attacks... They were all pretty good, as I recall, and you could build your list to virtually guarantee they'd go off.
Yeah I know, they were basically "beta rules" for the 3rd edition Codex - but I found it pretty easy to rationalise all of them with various "non-magic" explanations:
To me, the vagueness of the AoF and thus faith has always been a major aspect of the Sisters. I find it somewhat boring and disappointing that, in this RPG, they have now been pushed towards D&D paladins with rather obvious and undeniable "spells" - both because this makes them appear less badass than in GW fluff descriptions (which describe AoF as a mixture of intense training and conviction, rather than some mysterious new form of energy lending them its strength), and because it really throws up the question as to how the Marines can still refuse to believe in the Emperor.
It surely is a matter of how we'd like to perceive the setting (I find it more "grimdark" if a lot of the superstitious stuff is, in fact, nothing but superstition), but the studio material at least allowed us to pick either option.
I agree alot, thanks for saving me the need to type and saying it better than I would have
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