Having spent a year collecting FFG books, and being happy with each one, I want to know why I should even bother with the Beta?

This is what I want for the Inquisition side of my campaign, which will combine most of the FFG 40K systems:

I want acolytes who are mere mortals. No weapon heavy Rambos kicking butt in the name of the Emperor; just your Average Joes who see some strange goings on and decides to check it out. Before they can say "oops" they're drawn into the dark underworld where their ignorance of the darker side of the 40K universe is forever smashed. While I fully intend having an Inquisitor with a small group of butt kicking badasses, the "acolytes" are meant to be subtle. Secretive. Whether a psyker or sage, arbite or guard, preacher or tech-priest, they will not stand out from the crowd. Or at least, they won't stand out until they start throwing fireballs, cause brains to bleed, hurl objects around and pull out concealed weapons.

Now there will be Space Ships (Rogue Trader) and the agents of Chaos (Black Crusade), with room in the plot for car chases, battle scenes, warp rift incursions and Grey Knights. But it is not the acolytes job to wage war, just keep their heads down when the proverbial poop hits the fan.

Now convince me why I should even consider looking at this Beta thingy! Because I've been keeping up with the forums and thinking "oh what's the use! Why waste $20 when I've no problem with Dark Heresy with a bit of house ruling."

Present your case.....for or against

You shouldn't.

The Beta is for playtesting and developing the new edition of Dark Heresy. It isn't a finished game. Nearly finished, sure, but not completely finished. If your looking for a game to play, this isn't one. On the other hand, if you would like to have a voice in influencing the direction of the second edition of Dark Heresy, then $20 buys you that voice.

The Beta is for playtesting and developing the new edition of Dark Heresy. It isn't a finished game.

I'm aware of that.

What I've been doing is searching the forums in the hopes of gleaning pros and cons before downloading it for myself and joining in.

What I've read has been depressing.

I'm hoping people who have read, and more importantly played, the Beta rules can convince me it's worth a look. Bearing in mind that this is not the final product and my intentions for how I'll be using my Acolytes.

Uh... It is kinda' hard to argue for or against the 2.0 Beta because it gained the nickname "Only Heresy" for a good reason IMHO.

Overall, I would say you want to download the 2.0 Beta only if you want to participate in the Beta development process itself. If you only want to play then wait for the final product.

It's worth it if you really enjoy Only War. The Beta may get a lot better after a few updates as well. I'm hoping it's the updates that make this game different than Only War.

Skip the Beta. Financially, it would be irresponsible to spend $20 on this hodge-podge copy/paste. Take a look at the finished product when (if) it hits the shelves, and make a decision for yourself at that time.

It's worth it if you really enjoy Only War. The Beta may get a lot better after a few updates as well. I'm hoping it's the updates that make this game different than Only War.

I liked Only War....for only war. But since getting Black Crusade, with it's Horde VS Horde rules, my desire for war in the RPG arena has been satisfied. Imperial Guard hordes vs rengegade hordes.....drool. I like it better than the tabletop 40K game. More savage IMO.

I'm really looking for subtlety. Covert spying. Investigations. Occasional skirmishes, which are unavoidable in 40K, but save the war for the warriors. Suffice to say I want acolytes who are like me and my friends, with a bit of 40K flavour, and not the kind of over the top out of this world heroes of movies.

I'm really looking for subtlety. Covert spying. Investigations. Occasional skirmishes, which are unavoidable in 40K, but save the war for the warriors. Suffice to say I want acolytes who are like me and my friends, with a bit of 40K flavour, and not the kind of over the top out of this world heroes of movies.

There are actually rules for the use and benefits of subtlety... even a group trait, aptly enough called Subtlety. Extensive rules for influence, investigation and detailed rules for social interaction (including how the NPCs personality influences the PCs ability to use Social Skills on them).

Despite what a lot of people seem to think, this is not just Only Way with a different character creation system. While the skills, talents and combat sections are drawn from the latest evolution of the 40K rpg rules set, the Narratives Tools chapter contains the meat of what makes Dark Heresy a different game... Investigation, Social interaction, Influence and Subtlety.

It's worth it if you really enjoy Only War. The Beta may get a lot better after a few updates as well. I'm hoping it's the updates that make this game different than Only War.

I liked Only War....for only war. But since getting Black Crusade, with it's Horde VS Horde rules, my desire for war in the RPG arena has been satisfied. Imperial Guard hordes vs rengegade hordes.....drool. I like it better than the tabletop 40K game. More savage IMO.

I'm really looking for subtlety. Covert spying. Investigations. Occasional skirmishes, which are unavoidable in 40K, but save the war for the warriors. Suffice to say I want acolytes who are like me and my friends, with a bit of 40K flavour, and not the kind of over the top out of this world heroes of movies.

I'm kind of in the same boat TK. I would recommend holding off on the Beta for now. In it's current state, it's still very close to Only War. Let's hope it doesn't stay that way (crosses fingers).

As LuciousT said, there are some nice narrative rules but there are some old beta ideas regarding psykers, skills, talents, etc that would be nice additions to the roleplaying element of the game.

There are actually rules for the use and benefits of subtlety... even a group trait, aptly enough called Subtlety. Extensive rules for influence, investigation and detailed rules for social interaction (including how the NPCs personality influences the PCs ability to use Social Skills on them).

Despite what a lot of people seem to think, this is not just Only Way with a different character creation system. While the skills, talents and combat sections are drawn from the latest evolution of the 40K rpg rules set, the Narratives Tools chapter contains the meat of what makes Dark Heresy a different game... Investigation, Social interaction, Influence and Subtlety.

Now that has got my attention.

Most of what I've read has been about shooting, combat, wounds, action points and potentially psychic untouchables. Psychic powers are given less than favourable comments too. It just seemed the game was designed to be all about combat.

Even if the characters are more in line with the other RPG's in terms of starting characteristics, I could easily reduce their starting stats to make them more "normal".

Now we're getting somewhere.

You can find those exact rules in the 1.0 Beta too. So if you have it, then the 2.0 Beta will be surplus again.

You can find those exact rules in the 1.0 Beta too. So if you have it, then the 2.0 Beta will be surplus again.

I've not picked up a beta, but it is now sounding worth it for those rules. Since nobody is complaining about them, as far as I've seen, they must be good rules.

You can find those exact rules in the 1.0 Beta too. So if you have it, then the 2.0 Beta will be surplus again.

I've not picked up a beta, but it is now sounding worth it for those rules. Since nobody is complaining about them, as far as I've seen, they must be good rules.

They are good rules. But 20 bucks are a little bit too pricey for them IMHO. I would just look up the 1.0 Beta rules for them if I only wanted to play a good game.

It's worth it if you really enjoy Only War. The Beta may get a lot better after a few updates as well. I'm hoping it's the updates that make this game different than Only War.

I liked Only War....for only war. But since getting Black Crusade, with it's Horde VS Horde rules, my desire for war in the RPG arena has been satisfied. Imperial Guard hordes vs rengegade hordes.....drool. I like it better than the tabletop 40K game. More savage IMO.

I'm really looking for subtlety. Covert spying. Investigations. Occasional skirmishes, which are unavoidable in 40K, but save the war for the warriors. Suffice to say I want acolytes who are like me and my friends, with a bit of 40K flavour, and not the kind of over the top out of this world heroes of movies.

I'm kind of in the same boat TK. I would recommend holding off on the Beta for now. In it's current state, it's still very close to Only War. Let's hope it doesn't stay that way (crosses fingers).

As LuciousT said, there are some nice narrative rules but there are some old beta ideas regarding psykers, skills, talents, etc that would be nice additions to the roleplaying element of the game.

Pretty much this. If you haven't already shelled out the $20, hold off for now. It's pretty much OW at this point.

You also made a reference to action points - those no longer exist. They were removed from the original beta to bring the game more in line with the previous 40k games. If you're looking for a game that's OW but Inquisitorial and with minor improvements, DH2 may be for you. If you're looking for a new game with new, heretofore unseen mechanics, walk away. That's not what this is.

You can find those exact rules in the 1.0 Beta too. So if you have it, then the 2.0 Beta will be surplus again.

I've not picked up a beta, but it is now sounding worth it for those rules. Since nobody is complaining about them, as far as I've seen, they must be good rules.

Ehhh... Let's not go that far. I haven't gotten the chance to run DH2 yet (what with the holidays and all), but the Subtlety system seems completely superfluous to me. I keep a mental note of how subtle my players are and present things with it in mind. If you need a mechanical framework to help you do this, it's in the DH2 rules.

Since my computer crashed, I've had time to consider your replies. Please don't just scan this if you're going to reply, as I attempt to explain my thoughts:

I'm in this hobby for the story. Characters, monsters and environments are more important than whose got the most powerful group of characters. Each RPG represents a certain important aspect of the story and environment. That, at least, is how I thought as I began my collection of FFG books.

For me Only War is for the "Guardsmen" characters. Simple as that. I like Only War for them and I even like the way it does character advancement. For me, Guardsmen and Only War will enter the campaign when the acolytes get into trouble and need some muscle to get them out. Simple. No need to have a vast advancement table and pages of abilities if the characters are just muscle. If ever I need to infiltrate a barracks or talk to savage primitives, then they will have a bit more of a role. But this is the exception rather than the rule.

Rogue Trader is mostly used for when the acolytes are travelling from one place to the next. Generally speaking, this is simply using the time it takes for warp and space travel. Mutiny and perils of the warp can add extra adventure, but that will be some random determined fun. But as the campaign progresses, space battles will start and that is when this game really enters the story. It is also possible the Chaos characters will have ships.

Deathwatch is more for the Grey Knights, using the DH Daemonhunters supplement of course. Don't think I need to explain this more than that. It is my intention to have at least ten Grey Knights entering the campaign, perhaps with a Librarian and Apothicary.

Black Crusade has two purposes: (1) When a character reaches 100 corruption, especially after a Dark Pact, I don't want them to just vanish. Their journey to the dark side is complete. (2) For the powerful adversaries running their own counter-campaign to the others.

At this point I want to point out that battles that go beyond a team of Guardsmen will be represented by Hordes VS Hordes. These rules are presented in Black Crusade and I have reason to believe Deathwatch: Mark of Xenos has rules for massed assaults (or something like that).

Dark Heresy is the heart and soul of the campaign. It isn't about war, it is about investigating, interrogating and spying. It is actually the game that TELLS THE STORY, rather than ends it in an unnecessary bloodbath. To achieve this it needs to: (1) allow for characters to have depth and personality (2) allow characters to progress from puny average Joes to heroes (3) subtlety and investigation is rewarded whereas open conflict is punished.

It seems that point (3) is covered in the Beta, more so than in the original Dark Heresy. That makes it instantly more appealing. My (1) point I know is, at least in part, covered as it is possible to have assassin psykers and arbite adepts. Unless Beta 2 has removed this, that is two thumbs up. Point (2) is where there is concern. If character advancement is in line with Only War then I can't see me wanting the finished book.

Why?

I'm creating my own background so that is a huge chunk of the book which is wasted on me. I do read the backgrounds in each book, as they're good for inspiration, but I'm doing my own background in my own sector of Imperial space. If the rules, including character advancements, are an unbalanced unrealistic mess then that is yet more of the book which is wasted as I'd simply resort to the original Dark Heresy.

BTW if the rules make combat more dangerous, that holds no problem for me. That is how it should be for puny humans who need to be subtle and keep their heads down.

So in conclusion, I'm going to say the Beta interests me for the character creation and the subtlety, investigation and social rules. These rules can be used in unison with the game play and weapon rules from a more favourable game system, perhaps even Only War itself. Paying $20 isn't going to break the bank, and it does give a discount should the finished book be much better than the Beta.

I've not picked up a beta, but it is now sounding worth it for those rules. Since nobody is complaining about them, as far as I've seen, they must be good rules.

Actually...

The Influence-currency Acquisition/Requisition system doesn't work at all well out of the box. Or book, or whatever.

The Social Skills vs. Personality driven Disposition system is very odd in places, and gone the way of D&D in that it doesn't apply to PCs.

Subtlety and Influence values & mechanics in some pretty strong ways treat the Acolytes as Peers of the Imperium, not as nobodies in over their heads.

More than all that, though... It's just not much of a mechanical framework at all. If you're expecting a solid spycraft system, you're looking in the wrong place. DH2b, both the new and the old, has nothing of the sort.

It also has no framework for running factions, or for a warband/cadre/cell as an entity in itself, or for running an Inquisitor, should the Inquisitor happen to be an NPC.

If you already have DH1e, I'd stick with that. Because DH2e doesn't bring anything significant to the table. Indeed, it does so even less now that it's become the Only Heresy beta. At least 2.3b had vastly superior Skill & Psychic systems. If Only Heresy had those, I'd probably recommend it. But it doesn't.

I disagree with Simsum. Just sayin...

I'm going to second Simsum. It doesn't sound like this is the game for you, TKG.

Slightly off topic, but if you think OW is an action-only game, you're missing out on a lot. Go watch Generation Kill and tell me that doesn't make you want to play OW.

Same "Usual suspect" naysayers as usual!

Ok, To directly answer the OP's question:

If a more story driven narrative is what you're looking for then DH (In this case the beta) is in fact, the product you want.

My reasons for this:

General: 1.)The $20.00 bucks you shell out on the beta is a direct discount on the final product if you like the beta and wish to have the final product. I was in the OW beta and I know this is how this works.

2.) Familiarity: If you like the way Combat and skill use works in OW/BC than you will find this system easy to use. If not, Than I don't know what to tell you.

3.) Compatibility: Despite the naysayers usual whining about this being very similar to OW this actually is a good thing! Your characters could easily find themselves investigating a warzone or area where you might have another character present. This system makes such "Cameo" appearances fairly simple to accomplish as character profiles will not be incompatible. Also; In your comments you stated a desire for cross compatibility to say, BC when characters corruption points reach 100. That is easily accomplished here!

Narrative: The Narrative tools section of the BC beta is by far the best reason to buy the product (beta or finished). The Influence and subtlety section provide a great and balancing framework of rules for the use of either wealth or contacts against just how "undercover" your acolytes wish to be! Meanwhile, The investigation rules are much more directed at a "detective" style game than anything prior in the 40k system.

Character Generation system:

The new character generation system is much wider in scope than previous products. Character classes are similar in concept to the character "roles" in OW but are, by necessity, wider in scope since Pc's are not Necessarily soldier's in a Warzone. These are further differentiated by by homeworld and a new section (To DH), Background. The background section refers to what organization from which the character originates.These organizations will be familiar to you if you played DH1 but also allow for some interesting characters by recognizing not every character is a carbon copy of the others. (A character could in theory, start out as a sage in the IG. He would probably be a an adeptus munitorium quartermaster or MASH dr. or some such.)

In summary TKG, This game would probably appeal to your suggested play style so it might be worth a look.

Side Note: <Standby for blatant rant:>To those of you to whom this applies; Stop trying to sabotage the product because you want your old beta back! You know who you are and yes I'm calling you out on it! I have tried to ignore the incessant bitching and whining but when you try to discourage new players as a BLATANT attempt to sabotage the beta you go too far! By his stated question, DH2 IS VERY MUCH the product he was looking for and you know it!!! KNOCK IT OFF! Some have already become blatantly derogatory to other players (See thread about whining players forcing this to be only war) and now you're straying into product sabotage! If you don't like the beta that much than please just shut up and go away! That's what many of the "old grognard's" felt they had to do with the old beta to avoid becoming abusive. Maybe some of you should take a lesson here!

<Rant ends>

Also; In your comments you stated a desire for cross compatibility to say, BC when characters corruption points reach 100. That is easily accomplished here!

If you want to rebuild the character from the ground up, sure. The rules to 'adapt' characters are broken as hell.

Subtlety is also a horribly realised mechanic that has little to no impact on the game as a whole, and can be easily ignored.

No one's trying to 'sabotage' the beta, they're just voicing concerns over how blatantly this 'new' system is just a copypaste job.

I'm going to second Simsum. It doesn't sound like this is the game for you, TKG.

Tom:

Respectfully, I disagree with you about the subtlety mechanic but yes, when some of the "usual suspects" start spewing about "I don't think this is the product for you" I think they need to examine their motive! An it's becoming tiresome! Want to include some of the Old beta's ideas? Fine! Then present that in a positive fashion! The thing that got the Old beta canned in my opinion was twofold: The combat system, while undoubtedly innovative, was too broken to easily fix and two: The lack of backwards compatibility seriously endangered their existing customer base! (I wouldn't have bought it! And I've bought literally everything else they've produced for 40k roleplaying! Obviously I was not alone!) A lot of the Old beta was actually retained and that's a good thing. Even the character creation was simply reworked from the original beta and includes essentially the same concepts. Remember that before DH2 beta came along their was a HUGE groundswell on a number of forums for a Unified system and this DH2 is a good step in that direction!

Basically my thought for those I've called out is this: Don't discourage people from even looking at the product! That's sabotage! You could be right or I could but let the newcomers decide that for themselves! If you are afraid that the product in this form might succeed then you are undermining your own position!

Since my computer crashed, I've had time to consider your replies. Please don't just scan this if you're going to reply, as I attempt to explain my thoughts:

I'm in this hobby for the story. Characters, monsters and environments are more important than whose got the most powerful group of characters. Each RPG represents a certain important aspect of the story and environment. That, at least, is how I thought as I began my collection of FFG books.

For me Only War is for the "Guardsmen" characters. Simple as that. I like Only War for them and I even like the way it does character advancement. For me, Guardsmen and Only War will enter the campaign when the acolytes get into trouble and need some muscle to get them out. Simple. No need to have a vast advancement table and pages of abilities if the characters are just muscle. If ever I need to infiltrate a barracks or talk to savage primitives, then they will have a bit more of a role. But this is the exception rather than the rule.

Rogue Trader is mostly used for when the acolytes are travelling from one place to the next. Generally speaking, this is simply using the time it takes for warp and space travel. Mutiny and perils of the warp can add extra adventure, but that will be some random determined fun. But as the campaign progresses, space battles will start and that is when this game really enters the story. It is also possible the Chaos characters will have ships.

Deathwatch is more for the Grey Knights, using the DH Daemonhunters supplement of course. Don't think I need to explain this more than that. It is my intention to have at least ten Grey Knights entering the campaign, perhaps with a Librarian and Apothicary.

Black Crusade has two purposes: (1) When a character reaches 100 corruption, especially after a Dark Pact, I don't want them to just vanish. Their journey to the dark side is complete. (2) For the powerful adversaries running their own counter-campaign to the others.

At this point I want to point out that battles that go beyond a team of Guardsmen will be represented by Hordes VS Hordes. These rules are presented in Black Crusade and I have reason to believe Deathwatch: Mark of Xenos has rules for massed assaults (or something like that).

Dark Heresy is the heart and soul of the campaign. It isn't about war, it is about investigating, interrogating and spying. It is actually the game that TELLS THE STORY, rather than ends it in an unnecessary bloodbath. To achieve this it needs to: (1) allow for characters to have depth and personality (2) allow characters to progress from puny average Joes to heroes (3) subtlety and investigation is rewarded whereas open conflict is punished.

It seems that point (3) is covered in the Beta, more so than in the original Dark Heresy. That makes it instantly more appealing. My (1) point I know is, at least in part, covered as it is possible to have assassin psykers and arbite adepts. Unless Beta 2 has removed this, that is two thumbs up. Point (2) is where there is concern. If character advancement is in line with Only War then I can't see me wanting the finished book.

Why?

I'm creating my own background so that is a huge chunk of the book which is wasted on me. I do read the backgrounds in each book, as they're good for inspiration, but I'm doing my own background in my own sector of Imperial space. If the rules, including character advancements, are an unbalanced unrealistic mess then that is yet more of the book which is wasted as I'd simply resort to the original Dark Heresy.

BTW if the rules make combat more dangerous, that holds no problem for me. That is how it should be for puny humans who need to be subtle and keep their heads down.

So in conclusion, I'm going to say the Beta interests me for the character creation and the subtlety, investigation and social rules. These rules can be used in unison with the game play and weapon rules from a more favourable game system, perhaps even Only War itself. Paying $20 isn't going to break the bank, and it does give a discount should the finished book be much better than the Beta.

Until this post I was thinking no but if this is what you want it might be worth getting.

I realize I'm probably the reverse of popular opinion on this, but I thought that the subtlety/investigation chapter was the least interesting thing in the old beta. I liked the idea of it, but it made very little sense in practice.

Subtlety being a group thing, and sorta-kinda permanent across very distant systems, made no sense to my group, and I couldn't adequately defend it (because it didn't make much sense to me, either).

"Social combat", while interesting, was just awkward. Maybe it's just how our group works, but we usually just role-play these things. It became very stiff and artificial when I tried to introduce the rules, despite our best intentions.

If you want a story-based RPG, I honestly don't think any of FFG's offering (including the old beta) are a good choice. I certainly wouldn't recommend shelling out for just the one chapter, at least in its current state.

I'm more and more tempted to just ditch the official offerings and go for FATE, or maybe some sort of modified version of Mouse Guard, as I too would prefer a story-centric approach.

TKG, it's a 40k game. I'm sure you can have fun with it, but if you already own DH1 I would recommend sticking with that until the beta gets ironed out. It's much more zero-to-hero than DH2 seems to be (what with starting at 30+2d10 and all).

Side Note: <Standby for blatant rant:>To those of you to whom this applies; Stop trying to sabotage the product because you want your old beta back! You know who you are and yes I'm calling you out on it! I have tried to ignore the incessant bitching and whining but when you try to discourage new players as a BLATANT attempt to sabotage the beta you go too far! By his stated question, DH2 IS VERY MUCH the product he was looking for and you know it!!! KNOCK IT OFF! Some have already become blatantly derogatory to other players (See thread about whining players forcing this to be only war) and now you're straying into product sabotage! If you don't like the beta that much than please just shut up and go away! That's what many of the "old grognard's" felt they had to do with the old beta to avoid becoming abusive. Maybe some of you should take a lesson here!

<Rant ends>

Same "Usual suspect" naysayers as usual!

Ok, To directly answer the OP's question:

If a more story driven narrative is what you're looking for then DH (In this case the beta) is in fact, the product you want.

My reasons for this:

General: 1.)The $20.00 bucks you shell out on the beta is a direct discount on the final product if you like the beta and wish to have the final product. I was in the OW beta and I know this is how this works.

2.) Familiarity: If you like the way Combat and skill use works in OW/BC than you will find this system easy to use. If not, Than I don't know what to tell you.

3.) Compatibility: Despite the naysayers usual whining about this being very similar to OW this actually is a good thing! Your characters could easily find themselves investigating a warzone or area where you might have another character present. This system makes such "Cameo" appearances fairly simple to accomplish as character profiles will not be incompatible. Also; In your comments you stated a desire for cross compatibility to say, BC when characters corruption points reach 100. That is easily accomplished here!

Narrative: The Narrative tools section of the BC beta is by far the best reason to buy the product (beta or finished). The Influence and subtlety section provide a great and balancing framework of rules for the use of either wealth or contacts against just how "undercover" your acolytes wish to be! Meanwhile, The investigation rules are much more directed at a "detective" style game than anything prior in the 40k system.

Character Generation system:

The new character generation system is much wider in scope than previous products. Character classes are similar in concept to the character "roles" in OW but are, by necessity, wider in scope since Pc's are not Necessarily soldier's in a Warzone. These are further differentiated by by homeworld and a new section (To DH), Background. The background section refers to what organization from which the character originates.These organizations will be familiar to you if you played DH1 but also allow for some interesting characters by recognizing not every character is a carbon copy of the others. (A character could in theory, start out as a sage in the IG. He would probably be a an adeptus munitorium quartermaster or MASH dr. or some such.)

In summary TKG, This game would probably appeal to your suggested play style so it might be worth a look.

Side Note: <Standby for blatant rant:>To those of you to whom this applies; Stop trying to sabotage the product because you want your old beta back! You know who you are and yes I'm calling you out on it! I have tried to ignore the incessant bitching and whining but when you try to discourage new players as a BLATANT attempt to sabotage the beta you go too far! By his stated question, DH2 IS VERY MUCH the product he was looking for and you know it!!! KNOCK IT OFF! Some have already become blatantly derogatory to other players (See thread about whining players forcing this to be only war) and now you're straying into product sabotage! If you don't like the beta that much than please just shut up and go away! That's what many of the "old grognard's" felt they had to do with the old beta to avoid becoming abusive. Maybe some of you should take a lesson here!

<Rant ends>

I don't mind your rant. It was in the hopes of drawing out some sensible assessments, good or bad, that I registered and posted. Some replies, while negative, have at least been constructive. But you have clearly grasped my point:

I'm a story teller who wants to use this as a means to tell a story; a story in which stealth is more important than outright warfare. Eisenhorn not Fall of Damnos (or any other Space Marine book for that matter).

You've done a lot to convince me. OW/BC have a much simpler combat and skill approach which I like, though I do like the vast choice of the original Dark Heresy. This is balanced by being able to personalise a character from creation. Never thought of a Guardsman Adept, might have to add that one to my list of possible characters.

Also; In your comments you stated a desire for cross compatibility to say, BC when characters corruption points reach 100. That is easily accomplished here!

If you want to rebuild the character from the ground up, sure. The rules to 'adapt' characters are broken as hell.

Subtlety is also a horribly realised mechanic that has little to no impact on the game as a whole, and can be easily ignored.

No one's trying to 'sabotage' the beta, they're just voicing concerns over how blatantly this 'new' system is just a copypaste job.

In the Black Crusade rulebook it makes it abundantly clear that one character cannot simply game hop. Turning to the dark side causes them to lose much of their former self. Such is the way of Chaos. Personally, I like the way Black Crusade allows for the switch. If I want a character to maintain his/her....character.....then I'd simply do a bit of house ruling.

No problem there.