This is my first post on here, but I've been following general discussions for a bit now.

Anywho, after looking at some of the changes in the DH2.0 Beta, i noticed that they did away with the AP system, to which I have mixed feelings towards, but that is a different topic all together.

They thing that I liked that has been changed from the old (New?) system was the way some melee weapons could hit more than others. In a way it made sense, someone wielding a dagger would be able to get in more swings and stabs than a person swinging a big cumbersome hammer or greataxe around.

So I had some ideas in which way they could implement this in the OW style system. I have to stress, these are very very rough, not thought out at all, ideas more for discussion and development than actual implementation.

But yeah, I was thinking that they could give different weapons different Special traits (like Tearing and etc).

They way it worked in my mind it would be something like:

• Light Weapon(X): This weapon can deal X attacks per action, where the X represents the number of attacks.

Obviously it needs a lot of work, and ideally there would be Special Traits like that for Medium weapons (Swords, staffs etc) and Heavy (Greatweapons, Maces so on), and the number of attacks would be based on certain characteristics such as Agility for lighter weapons, and Strength for heavier weapons.

What do you guys think? (Be gentle with me )

What do you guys think? (Be gentle with me )

Swift Attack and Lightning Attack are back, so you can score multiple hits with most of the weapons already.

This is my first post on here, but I've been following general discussions for a bit now.

Anywho, after looking at some of the changes in the DH2.0 Beta, i noticed that they did away with the AP system, to which I have mixed feelings towards, but that is a different topic all together.

They thing that I liked that has been changed from the old (New?) system was the way some melee weapons could hit more than others. In a way it made sense, someone wielding a dagger would be able to get in more swings and stabs than a person swinging a big cumbersome hammer or greataxe around.

So I had some ideas in which way they could implement this in the OW style system. I have to stress, these are very very rough, not thought out at all, ideas more for discussion and development than actual implementation.

But yeah, I was thinking that they could give different weapons different Special traits (like Tearing and etc).

They way it worked in my mind it would be something like:

• Light Weapon(X): This weapon can deal X attacks per action, where the X represents the number of attacks.

Obviously it needs a lot of work, and ideally there would be Special Traits like that for Medium weapons (Swords, staffs etc) and Heavy (Greatweapons, Maces so on), and the number of attacks would be based on certain characteristics such as Agility for lighter weapons, and Strength for heavier weapons.

What do you guys think? (Be gentle with me )

Sounds like a great idea. Ranged weapons have different types why not apply the same to melee weapons. You could even match the ranged weapons approach to keep it simple.

Light - Storm for melee (2 hits per DoS)

Medium - Can be used as normal

Heavy - Swift attack only

Lumbering (need a better word for this really) - Single attacks only.

That said, obviously your approach is more flexible and allows for cool uses of other states (like Per bonus with whips, that sort of thing).

I like this too! Having there be a meaningful difference between weapons would be great.

Like this very much.

I also liked the tying of melee weapon RoF to characteristcs in Beta1

Seems like adding RoF to weapons adds more complication than it's worth. I'm not sure how you could do that AND have lightning/swift attack.

I'd say, at most add a weapon quality for heavy weapons so you can't use lightning/swift attack with giant lumbering weapons.

Seems like Lightning Attack and Swift Attack approximate this. That said, it seems a not-silent group of people here did like at least some of the AP system. Despite the complications, the RoF mechanic did reward players for weapon types and skills. The ex-stormtrooper with excellent knife fighting skills felt good about how many times he could stab a guy with his combat knife (due to his training with it and its speed). This is something that flat +1 and +2 attacks doesn't really cover. My group just kept RoF and AP, with a lot of tweaks.

Lightning Attack and Swift attack do not differentiate between the lighter and heavier weapons. Therefore, following the game's mechanics, someone can swing a giant powerhammer around with the same ease as a shiv or knife.

Now I am not saying to get rid of the talents, but rather change them. I thought something among the lines of them giving a multiplier to the number of attacks one can do with the melee weapon. That was all weapons are affected, but knives still can be swung more than swords, and swords more than hammers.

Note that if melee weapons get a modifier or bonus attacks, the damage may have to be readjusted. It could make large cumbersome weapons obsolete. Just something to watch out for. I honestly think that Strength and Agility should play a role in this sort of modifier. That being Agility for lighter quicker weapons and Strength for heavier slower weapons.

Lightning Attack and Swift attack do not differentiate between the lighter and heavier weapons. Therefore, following the game's mechanics, someone can swing a giant powerhammer around with the same ease as a shiv or knife.

Now I am not saying to get rid of the talents, but rather change them. I thought something among the lines of them giving a multiplier to the number of attacks one can do with the melee weapon. That was all weapons are affected, but knives still can be swung more than swords, and swords more than hammers.

You mean like some fractional modifier that would apply to the actions you're allowed to perform? Something like... one swing for a half action? 1 over 2 (since there's 2 halves in whole)?

It doesn't make sense to mix numbers and words, so let's translate half to 1... no, let's make it 2, so you have 4 action somethings to use on your turn (so it's more granular). We'll need a fancy name, but 'action numbers' will suffice for now.

So with your proposed weapon speed modifier, multiplied by however many action numbers you want to spend on your attack, the result would be how many attacks you can make.

We'd have to assign these modifiers to every weapon, of course, and balance them out so you don't get weird kinks like being unable to charge and attack with an eviscerator (since it's so slow and unwieldy), but I think we could make it work.

I think you might be on to something new and innovative here.

Note that if melee weapons get a modifier or bonus attacks, the damage may have to be readjusted. It could make large cumbersome weapons obsolete

Yes, The only fix for this that I can currently think of is to adjust the damages for the weapons. Maybe for the heavier weapons, damage can be added based on the character's Strength characteristic? A little like the Power Fist?

Lightning Attack and Swift attack do not differentiate between the lighter and heavier weapons. Therefore, following the game's mechanics, someone can swing a giant powerhammer around with the same ease as a shiv or knife.

Now I am not saying to get rid of the talents, but rather change them. I thought something among the lines of them giving a multiplier to the number of attacks one can do with the melee weapon. That was all weapons are affected, but knives still can be swung more than swords, and swords more than hammers.

You mean like some fractional modifier that would apply to the actions you're allowed to perform? Something like... one swing for a half action? 1 over 2 (since there's 2 halves in whole)?

It doesn't make sense to mix numbers and words, so let's translate half to 1... no, let's make it 2, so you have 4 action somethings to use on your turn (so it's more granular). We'll need a fancy name, but 'action numbers' will suffice for now.

So with your proposed weapon speed modifier, multiplied by however many action numbers you want to spend on your attack, the result would be how many attacks you can make.

We'd have to assign these modifiers to every weapon, of course, and balance them out so you don't get weird kinks like being unable to charge and attack with an eviscerator (since it's so slow and unwieldy), but I think we could make it work.

I think you might be on to something new and innovative here.

Well hell, we might as well just bring back the AP system and expand it to include this idea.

Lightning Attack and Swift attack do not differentiate between the lighter and heavier weapons. Therefore, following the game's mechanics, someone can swing a giant powerhammer around with the same ease as a shiv or knife.

Now I am not saying to get rid of the talents, but rather change them. I thought something among the lines of them giving a multiplier to the number of attacks one can do with the melee weapon. That was all weapons are affected, but knives still can be swung more than swords, and swords more than hammers.

You mean like some fractional modifier that would apply to the actions you're allowed to perform? Something like... one swing for a half action? 1 over 2 (since there's 2 halves in whole)?

It doesn't make sense to mix numbers and words, so let's translate half to 1... no, let's make it 2, so you have 4 action somethings to use on your turn (so it's more granular). We'll need a fancy name, but 'action numbers' will suffice for now.

So with your proposed weapon speed modifier, multiplied by however many action numbers you want to spend on your attack, the result would be how many attacks you can make.

We'd have to assign these modifiers to every weapon, of course, and balance them out so you don't get weird kinks like being unable to charge and attack with an eviscerator (since it's so slow and unwieldy), but I think we could make it work.

I think you might be on to something new and innovative here.

Sarcasm. Cute.

Yeah okay so this is starting to sound a little like the AP system before it was scrapped, but it made some sense with the melee weapons. Just because elements of the AP system were flawed, surely it can't mean that some of the good ideas can't be employed in the half action and full action system that Only War uses somehow.

The AP system was a very good idea in my opinion, it just needed a few adjustments here and there. Your (TheOneTrueLemon) only helps to confirm that this is a good direction to explore.

Yeah okay so this is starting to sound a little like the AP system before it was scrapped, but it made some sense with the melee weapons. Just because elements of the AP system were flawed, surely it can't mean that some of the good ideas can't be employed in the half action and full action system that Only War uses somehow.

Boy, I sure do wish you were around when everyone was crying about how the beta wasn't DH/RT/DW/BC/OW-compatible.

Yeah okay so this is starting to sound a little like the AP system before it was scrapped, but it made some sense with the melee weapons. Just because elements of the AP system were flawed, surely it can't mean that some of the good ideas can't be employed in the half action and full action system that Only War uses somehow.

What a reasonable position.

Boy, I sure do wish you were around when everyone was crying about how the beta wasn't DH/RT/DW/BC/OW-compatible.

So do I

I only recently bought the beta and gave it a proper run, only to find out that they changed it to Only War-ish even more recently. Made some of us a little sad

What do you guys think? (Be gentle with me )

We're working on something along those lines.

We've divided both ranged and melee weapons into Light, Medium and Heavy Weapon Classes.

We have three basic Attack Modes that can be used with any weapon; Aimed, Swift and Full.

We have 4 Range Categories; Close Combat, Short Range, Medium Range and Long Range.

The Action Point costs of the Attack Modes depends on the Weapon Class

Light Weapons can all be used in Close Combat. Aimed attacks and attacks with Heavy close combat weapons can't inflict multiple hits. And not all weapon types allow all 3 Attack Modes.

Bpth single-hit and multi-hit weapons have an Attack Test DoS Threshold. Every time that Threshold is beat (it's typically 1-3 DoS), the attack inflicts a fixed amount of additional damage based on the weapon.

Multi-hit attacks inflict their base damage (the d10+X) every time they inflict the first hit to a new hit location.

Basically higher rates of attack are good at short distances, and good at lightly wounding more than one hit location.

Moderately rapid attacks are the cheapest/fastest to use, but inflict the least damage.

While lower rates of attack (and heavier weapons) are good at all distances, and good at inflicting heavier wounds to a single location.

The precise combination of weapon class, attack mode and range determines attack roll modifiers.

... I kind of wish I could figure out how to post a table here, because it's absurdly difficult to describe and it isn't actually all that complicated.

But.. It's very much a work in progress anyway.

You can make a list with a Google Spreadsheet and post the link or post a dropbox folder link with the document in it.

This problem is already sort of alleviated with Unbalanced and Unwieldy. Big heavy weapons can't be used, or suffer a penalty, to parry, and they can only Swift Attack at most. It's always worked out pretty well for us.

Well, The Inquisitor system has some value. Maybe take some ideas from that?