...I regret coming back to read this topic after doing my business today. Black Knight, I don't need to prove any of my psychological diagnosis to you: if you don't believe me that's your own problem. Secondly, you care WAY too much about this for it to be healthy. I hope you do stay out of this topic because you've honestly ruined any fun of this discussion for me. I've not seen such an elitist, entitled, pious attitude on an internet forum in all my life. That, or you're a very good troll who's successfully given me a headache.

THAT SAID I went back to read your earlier posts about the Y-TIE or whatever and going over that the schematics and how it could viably perform. I pretty much agree with you that pirate factions, being unofficial military powers in most cases, would probably fashion whatever equipment they could to make superior performance fighters.

I want every ship to be in this game. I do have least favorites though. TIE Raptor, TIE Wing, Y-TIE, X-TIE, Zceptor.

the zceptor looks pretty ugly-awesome.

Indeed it does, need to make another couple of them.

Interesting ship. What's it made from, besides the TIE Interceptor?

I want every ship to be in this game. I do have least favorites though. TIE Raptor, TIE Wing, Y-TIE, X-TIE, Zceptor.

the zceptor looks pretty ugly-awesome.

Indeed it does, need to make another couple of them.

Interesting ship. What's it made from, besides the TIE Interceptor?

*Edit*...

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter/keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

Move this around a bit and it would go.

An infinite amount of monkey's hitting keys at random on a typewriter/keyboard for a given amount of time would almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

This has proven to be false by the presence of the internet...And the above poster. Keep hitting those keys mate

I said "Give me all refrences that I have no grasp on reality? Since you know so much about me you should be able to write down everything I have done in my life."

Agian I will point out you have not said one thing about the other user insulting other people on this forum, which gives me a good indication of who you really are.

You have anything more to say about it send it in a pm.

As far as minis are concerned I want them all in this game at one point or another. I am now done with this topic.

Don't get too worked up over this BlackKnight leader. Just remember, this is a forum and there is always someone who'll disagree with you. And, there are those that thrive on stirring the pot, just to see the other person really get mad. These people are called trolls. First rule of forums, don't feed the trolls!

Personally, I hate the Uglies, but the beauty of this is; if they make one, I don't have to buy it. I can just play with what I like. If they include some must have card with the miniature, I don't care. I skip the tourneys, and play friendly games. I'll use a proxy card if I need to. If they don't make that must have fighter. I'll buy a model off the Internet, and we'll come up with some house rules.

I hope they make a huge variety of stuff. EU, Prequel, sequel, capital ships, you name it and I hope they build it. They make ships now that I don't care for, but I love this game and think it can only get better with more diversity.

...I regret coming back to read this topic after doing my business today. Black Knight, I don't need to prove any of my psychological diagnosis to you: if you don't believe me that's your own problem. Secondly, you care WAY too much about this for it to be healthy. I hope you do stay out of this topic because you've honestly ruined any fun of this discussion for me. I've not seen such an elitist, entitled, pious attitude on an internet forum in all my life. That, or you're a very good troll who's successfully given me a headache.

Elitist? Entitled? Pious?

Black Knight Leader is the one being trolled, not the troll.

For once, on the Internet, someone is actually backing up their talk with some references and he's the one that gets torn down? Not the one line answers, the zingers, and the trolls? Seriously?

Rodent that isa hell of a scratch build job, how did you get the panel effect on the wing. Incredibly impressed. I like the look of the ship, knowing nothing about it, is it Rebel, or Empire?

Rodent that isa hell of a scratch build job, how did you get the panel effect on the wing. Incredibly impressed. I like the look of the ship, knowing nothing about it, is it Rebel, or Empire?

Neither, pirate, Black Sun or Hutt consortium, I've got some better images of the construction over on A Few Maneuvers

For once, on the Internet, someone is actually backing up their talk with some references and he's the one that gets torn down? Not the one line answers, the zingers, and the trolls? Seriously?

The issue is he's being selective in his facts, ignoring huge chunks of information and then coming to very suspect conclusions, in all three threads he has participated in.

He taken on screen depictions of the Interceptor one-shotting unnamed mooks to mean that the Interceptor should have far better guns than any ship in the game. Ignoring the fact that stat wise the X-Wing have comparible armaments. Movies use movie logic, why can Imperial Stormtroopers never hit a named character? Also ignoring the fact that we can't make this kind of comparisons from movie shots as we never seen Rebels fire on Rebels so we have no baseline.

Then we have the Rogue Shadow scale discussion, where he ignore the plethora of external comparison shots either against Starkiller who we know isn't a midget as stormtroopers have a minimum size and we see him fight them. Or against other ships we know the size of. And then states because in some interior shots of the training room Starkiller fights the hologram of an AT-ST the ship must be twice the size everyone else makes it out to be.

And then you have this discussion where he takes individual ship stats in their off the production line state and then concludes that Uglies should have superior stats to either. Ignoring the fact that Uglies are made by pirates with a lack of equipment and finance from the destroyed remnants of ships. So we are not dealing with factory parts. The individual parts are probably being jerry rigged. The example of the Iran fighters is not a comparible example, Iran is quite a rich country with a decent workforce which combine certain ships that they know work together to make a hybrid fighter. Infact the Iran example is very similar to the Chir'daki/Deathseed which is made by the Twi'lek government from shipped in parts on an industrial scale and that we have all really argued should have decent stats.

It feels like he is trying to brow beat down anyone that disagree with him with a wall of stats, and when some of us look at what he's quoting he is leaving out huge parts of the picture where it suits him.

And that would be te exact counter to it but not personal attacks or one liners. I don't know about other threads or topics he may be involved in but in this one he's actually providing evidence that no one answered reasonably.

Could a pirate faction mass produce these uglies to all be superior to imperial/rebel ships... Nope but a few skilled ones could piece together a few elites that do because they do take the better parts of each. This happens daily in our modern equivalent and there are many- I can't believe I'm actually going to use this as an argument- reality style tv shows doing custom cars, bikes, etc with scrap and making something better than the original from spares (and numerous discovery channel shows doin similar things outside of automotives). Heck, your minis "scrapped together" from "salvaged" parts are a great comparison themselves. Not every ugly will work and most will be sub-par, but their individual parts are superior.

Now back on topic, I hope, I'm slowly learning more about the uglies, and having some appreciation for a few of them. I wouldn't mind seeing a few. Still really hate the scimitar bomber and starkiller. Both are pretty terrible designs and I hope neither is ever chosen.

And that would be te exact counter to it but not personal attacks or one liners. I don't know about other threads or topics he may be involved in but in this one he's actually providing evidence that no one answered reasonably.

Could a pirate faction mass produce these uglies to all be superior to imperial/rebel ships... Nope but a few skilled ones could piece together a few elites that do because they do take the better parts of each. This happens daily in our modern equivalent and there are many- I can't believe I'm actually going to use this as an argument- reality style tv shows doing custom cars, bikes, etc with scrap and making something better than the original from spares (and numerous discovery channel shows doin similar things outside of automotives). Heck, your minis "scrapped together" from "salvaged" parts are a great comparison themselves. Not every ugly will work and most will be sub-par, but their individual parts are superior.

Now back on topic, I hope, I'm slowly learning more about the uglies, and having some appreciation for a few of them. I wouldn't mind seeing a few. Still really hate the scimitar bomber and starkiller. Both are pretty terrible designs and I hope neither is ever chosen.

Actually we discussed just this over on a Few Maneuvers, most of the basic piloted Uglies just have focus on their action bar. But I suggested that higher level Pilots get extra actions to represent them being able to scavenge systems that actually work. So they may get Target Lock, to represent them being able to get a working targeting system attached to their ships. Or Boosts, Evades or Barrel Rolls or even extra stats added to their fighters.. In a similar way to how the YT-1300 has 2 stat lines.

The other thing I was suggesting was Black Market Modifications. More or less low cost mods that alter the way the ship works, they normally have some downside and upside. For example "lower Attack by 1, gain 2 missile slots and TL", "This ship gains a Bomb Upgrade slot, while this ship has a Bomb attached it counts as Agility -1", "This ship gains 2 shield, critical hits ignore shields"... They would all be Unique upgrade cards so you could only ever have one in your fleet, but it would mean you could run a squadron of Tie-Wings where no 2 ships were the same.

The discussion reminds me of when I used to play Battletech and some overly-enthusiastic fans started arguing that 50' walking humanoid robots are reasonable, possible, and the goal. It is, fundamentally, a ludicrous claim and shows that the author does not understand math, physics and engineering. Saying that the rules change simply because we're taking about a sci-fi story is fraudulent. The same applies here. Those custom cars you refer to cost significantly more than the original, cost more to operate, are less safe, and less reliable, all of which are more death blows to Uglies. There is not a logical argument that can be made in their favor and no amount of wishful thinking will change that. In the end it's simply not worth arguing with true-believers.

MandalMotors Bes'uliik:

To clarify: I would LOVE to have this as a model, but it's like the Sun Crusher in that it's supposed to be superior to pretty much anything else, and thus should shouldn't really be in the game.

I'm CONCERNED.

If you are concerned about somone writing about one (1) page of fiction ref. I recommend getting a library card and go for the adventure of your life;)

Im not really a Bes'uliick fan. it looks too much like an origami representaion of Salvador Dali's redesign of a Jedi fighter.But in an infinite universe anything has its place. Except for Nemoidean combat droids off all sorts, they royally suck. Roger Roger

MandalMotors Bes'uliik:

To clarify: I would LOVE to have this as a model, but it's like the Sun Crusher in that it's supposed to be superior to pretty much anything else, and thus should shouldn't really be in the game.

Do you ever get the feeling that the Mandalorians just wanted everything to look like their cool helmets?

MandalMotors Bes'uliik:

To clarify: I would LOVE to have this as a model, but it's like the Sun Crusher in that it's supposed to be superior to pretty much anything else, and thus should shouldn't really be in the game.

Do you ever get the feeling that the Mandalorians just wanted everything to look like their cool helmets?

I would also like that model...

And yes... I do get that feeling... and it feels... good, but in a bad way.

Can a tie wing or y tie built from battle damaged spacecraft where both may have had hundreds if not thousands of flight hours and seen better days be joined together in a way that's better than originally designed?

Until you try to fly it and the stress of turning it or the engine vibrations shake it apart.

Not to mention one important over looked part.

If it was better to build your own ships the rebels had several captured ties and lots of y wings.

Would they have not just done their own conversions rather then paying for new ships to be built.?

Well keep in mind Bazinga, the Rebellion is usually short of funds and manpower at the best of times, so allocating more flight and engineering staff to do conversions would be something that could be difficult to pull off. Just keep in mind how much time and effort the hanger crews spend fixing S-foils, making sure lasers fire correctly, that the cockpit is safe to fly in a vacuum, that the sensors, hyperdrive and communication is functioning, and so on.

So yes, they would be way too busy just keeping the fleet up to code and maintained alongside developing new fighters and such to really work on such a project unless they were REALLY lucky to have the luxury of time.

All of this talk about Uglies... Although I can't remember seeing one just think how much firepower a XY (X-wing back end with Y-Wing front end) would have. You'd lose the X-Wing's torpedo launcher but get to add all of the Y-Wing's firepower to the X-Wings lasers.

Sorry to all the uglies out there but so many of them make little to no sense that I'd be perfectly happy never seeing them as official FFG models. If you want to kit bash then go ahead but merging Imperial and Rebel fighter parts to make something that may be better than either of the parts is just crazy.

...I regret coming back to read this topic after doing my business today. Black Knight, I don't need to prove any of my psychological diagnosis to you: if you don't believe me that's your own problem. Secondly, you care WAY too much about this for it to be healthy. I hope you do stay out of this topic because you've honestly ruined any fun of this discussion for me. I've not seen such an elitist, entitled, pious attitude on an internet forum in all my life. That, or you're a very good troll who's successfully given me a headache.

Elitist? Entitled? Pious?

Black Knight Leader is the one being trolled, not the troll.

For once, on the Internet, someone is actually backing up their talk with some references and he's the one that gets torn down? Not the one line answers, the zingers, and the trolls? Seriously?

And that would be te exact counter to it but not personal attacks or one liners. I don't know about other threads or topics he may be involved in but in this one he's actually providing evidence that no one answered reasonably.

Could a pirate faction mass produce these uglies to all be superior to imperial/rebel ships... Nope but a few skilled ones could piece together a few elites that do because they do take the better parts of each. This happens daily in our modern equivalent and there are many- I can't believe I'm actually going to use this as an argument- reality style tv shows doing custom cars, bikes, etc with scrap and making something better than the original from spares (and numerous discovery channel shows doin similar things outside of automotives). Heck, your minis "scrapped together" from "salvaged" parts are a great comparison themselves. Not every ugly will work and most will be sub-par, but their individual parts are superior.

Now back on topic, I hope, I'm slowly learning more about the uglies, and having some appreciation for a few of them. I wouldn't mind seeing a few. Still really hate the scimitar bomber and starkiller. Both are pretty terrible designs and I hope neither is ever chosen.

Thanks for the suport. Unfortunatly their is full moon or something close to it. On top of that it appers this forum has more people in it that disregard canon. This based on past topics I was not here to take part in that I skimmed through.

If a game has to break canon that is out of my hands and I will live with it. To be attacked over the refrences themselves is a whole other thing. It looks like I am not the only one.

B.O.T.

Looking through the SW Blueprints Rebel edtion page 10. Technically the Y-Wing A4, S3 , and S3T could be conidered uglies only because they use a lot of nonstandard parts that the BTL-B never came with like the A4 they have a turbo modification. If you want later I can post more of these mods the Rebs made or make.

It's also my understanding that we're talking more about mercs and pirates using the uglies than the rebels.

Some of those mods will likely see play someday as titles or just upgrades.

MandalMotors Bes'uliik:

To clarify: I would LOVE to have this as a model, but it's like the Sun Crusher in that it's supposed to be superior to pretty much anything else, and thus should shouldn't really be in the game.

Do you ever get the feeling that the Mandalorians just wanted everything to look like their cool helmets?

I think it's just the artist, if the paint scheme was less Fett you wouldn't notice.

Not that I mind everything looking like buckets (in principle), but all the clone helmets are making me tired of it.

+1 for the Sun Crusher.

Ugly....check

Unusable in a story or game....check

Will bring back memories of awful books....check

Now I expect the Lady Luck to be coming down the road soon and look forward to using it at that time.

Doing a little looking I also see the Jade Fire (Mara's first ship) was the same basic model as the Lady Luck. All the more reason to see it at some point.

The Carrack, because it's a dong.

The Lancer, because it's also a dong.

This is what happens when there's no editor and no art director for something.

You get space penises.

Suncrusher

I.. I just don't get it....

Aesthetically, it's just awful

As a plot device, it's just awful

As a mini, and considering it's relative power level, it's just awful

Seriously?

Help! The giant ice cream cone's going to blow up our solar system!!!!!