yeah, but this is when scatter attack misses, so if scatter attack miss and hit wall/obstacle/door then explodes harmless but this does'nt quite answer my Q about exploding on it but this explanation after all put me closer to think that marine cant do that but im not 100% convinced tho thanks right now me and my friends finish basic 5 level scenario from doom in campaign style, well, like someone earlier said, im never gonna play doom in campaign mode again solo scenarios only, in campaign mode doom looses survival horror feeling and becomes descent not to mention its pretty hard for IP later to kill marines.

stan_n1 said:

Why? How much Armor are they packing? How many Marines?

Dam said:

2 marines, 1st with recon, tech op, scout - fast & unstoppable, closing/securing door, 2nd with eff. killer, alert, crack shot, and i think 4th was perfect aim [we play in campaign mode so marines can buy skills] - unlimited shells, cant play dud/jammed, advance with aimed guard order in end, both have every weapon, 4 armor, when i can i try crushing blow but sometimes its hard, but mostly after 3rd scenario play goes something like this - open door, normal speed of running, not hurrying but it depends from room, when opened room had hell knight type monsters bfg action, after room is secured tech op keeps door closed, so i cant do much cuz they kill everything in they way and b'cuz tech op marine is quite fast its hard to get close, and 2nd interupt my turn with guard. yep - this is mostly like this open-kill-go and i have to try catch up but its hard to hit them even with trite [red,green] its hard to do damage.

stan_n1 said:

Wow, 4 Armor both? How'd they get that much? You know Marines can only level up Armor once per campaign, not once per scenario? Heck, using the kill pool method, no Marine has ever been close to buying +1 Armor in our games.

Dam said:

4 armor is nothing hard to gain if You play in campaign mode b'cuz You gather kill points and when scenario ends with success and if You have enough kill points You can gain 1, thats obvious, but You can always pick up armor from board, i play with 4 armor max, if You look at core 1-5 maps then You see that even scenario 2 & 4 have 1 armor in starting area so its not hard to have 4, and if You see design of last 2 rooms in level 5 [i mean medkits] then You will know.

Isn't it so that when a marine dies he loses all picked-up extra armor tokens? We never experienced several marines with 4 armor that soon in the game.

Yes you have to give back any armor tokens after you die - except those increased by kill points, and you can increase only by one.

stan_n1 said:

The kill pool method I referred to "takes care" of that nicely. With that method, Marines need to kill 130 (I think Armor increase was 65 points) kill points in a single mission. Highest so far I've seen is mid 70s. In the kill pool, all kills are counted together and in the end divided with the number of Marines. So Marine A kills 40, Marine B 20, total is 60, so each has 30 points. Furthermore, we don't allow banking of those points. You must spend as much as you can (reasonably). Only those odds and ends get left over (say the total was 62 points, 31 each, leaving 1 in the bank for future).

Not a bad method, but I will leave out that nobody can bank the points. I think foregoing on any immediate bonusses should be rewarded, by, for example, an extra a armor point if you save your points and still manage to survive. With your method buying the armor would be almost impossible. Why would you want to make this impossible? Doom is hard enough as it is on the marines.

Dam said:

oh sorry, now i see my mistake - "4 armor is nothing hard to gain if You play.." of course gain is only 1 per campaign not infinity but You guys ask about 'how can you get so much armor so quickly' well... one of marine buy/gain 1 armor after 2nd scenario, 2nd buy it after scenario 3, and after scenario 4 - first marine bought 1 skill card. AND if i have bad roll on crushing blow (2x in a row) and its hard to kill marine with 4 the next scenario he got everything from last scenario so its not so hard to have 4 but you have to keep moving and dont get killed. now from retrospective i can see that cooperation is highly required between marines, and with luck (i.e. no ammo rolls - 3x in a row - grenade, 2-3 x in a row - bfg) when you have not bad set of skills its a very good game with lot of tension, so my quess is doom is not only fun, hard, hard to master from IP pov with expansion deck [i mean you have to really think what to do next] but its very challenging and satisfying game. but this is not over of course, i love this game, everytime i play i got some weird ideas, some marines got weird questions about - like last my Q was 'can u target obstacle space with grenade' - but most of uor play is quite refreshing and something new because of replayability.

Dam: yes, i read method of gathering kill points that You have mention, its real nice, its not so super hard to get so many points, but in campaign is crucial, i have something like that from BGG i think:

* Gaining KPs

- 1 KP: Trite, Cherub, Zombie
- 2 KP: Imp, Commando
- 3 KP: Demon, Maggot
- 4 KP: Hellknight, Revenant, Mancubus
- 5 KP: Cacodemon, Archvile
- 7 KP: Vagary
- 10 KP: Cyberdemon

* Spending KPs

- 8 KP: heal 1 wound
- 16 KP: bullets
- 25 KP: grenades
- 33 KP: cells
- 42 KP: increase base wounds by 1
- 100 KP: increase base armor by 1 (max 4, 5 with Tough)
- 110 KP: gain 1 random marine skill

and how i see it ? real nice for me, i dont have opportunity to check this mod in action yet but its better i think than original. well if some of You wanna check some of my photos from our session - check doom at bgg.

Scy800 said:

2 Marine campaign has made it up to scenario 4 of the base game scenarios with that rule, so I don't know about impossible.

I've played a 1-marine campaign with just the rules from the base game with no extra rules, just the base rules. I was using invaders, and guess what. THE PLUCKY MARINE ESCAPED! He won all 5 scenarios. I don't know why everyone is saying Doom is hard on the marines, I find it hard on the invaders.

alright, i got enuff of this. here is what i was thinking lately.

so, we got minigun and shotgun right ? as far as i can see it shotgun with blowthough is something like blast 1 (blast radius like exploding barrels be cause of only 1 blue dice) and minigun got blast 2 (like BFG be cause of 2 green dices) so...

what i was thinking ? well, i try to say in simple way - lets say i stay i a room, and lets say there is a hell knight 4 spaces from me (how far is not the thing here) and lets say there is an imp adjacent to him on the right side, on the left side of hell knight is zombie but 2 spaces from him. ok now..

rules are - i can shoot to hk and with minigun i can easy shoot to imp, right ? right, now... rules states that i cant shoot same space twice with one attack (i dont know really why, but lets leave it for later) but i can 'walk' the attack so i can go on imp and then get back on hk right ? right. so this get me thinking.

FAQ says that i take every dice - of course this is pretty logical cuz other bullets from minigun/shotgun are not weaker, this only shows us visual way to see how far i can go with blowthough from target space. so in this example lets say is trite adjacent to zombie on the left and this trite would be now (kh>one space free>zombie>trite) on 3rd space from hk so is out of range from target space. now - if rules are in FAQ to clarify the core basic wording issues in core rules, and i understand that we get all dices to roll so what i see ? lets get big black soldier from classic movie 'predator' when big white soldier was shot in chest (the one which carried minigun) so our big black friend grab this minigun and start firing, now - when we look at the way how normal man operates minigun (like arnie in t2 too) we all see that by blowthrough we can sweep(?) our attack to the left or to the right, like cleaning floor with mop. why im tellin You all this ? well if we assume that we get all dices to roll on every subsequent attack on minigun/shotgun cuz we dont wanna lower this shot in any way cuz we all know that green dices are 'range' and blue are more 'damage' dices so i get to >

im standing in corridor this time, 3 spaces from me is zombie, 5 spaces is imp on the right behind zombie (they are not adjacent) but in front of me, so rules tell me that i CANT shoot at zombie then target empty space (roll) and then get back on zombie, cuz this rules only aplies only to oversized monsters. but in example 2 : i shoot at zombie and i cant shoot at him 2 more times. why ? i got minigun right ? some say marines got hard times in doom, so i wonder why amazing left-right-sweeping with minigun is not allowed in doom ? it is perfect weapon for cleanin and yet i can afford ammo consumption cuz i want to hit this zombie again ? and again ? why ? cuz marines in doom dont have steady hands to provide shots in one directions ? is there any person who can give me an answer to this question - why this rule says no to shot at where we want ? i cant shoot streight to zombie but i can walk to the left-right on mancubus ? is there some well-hidden-oversized-monsters-exclusive-rule ? every one of us who play games on pc/console and we got minigun we fire at one target multiple times to make sure if its dead. we cant in doom. why ?

and my little question is about timing: friend of mine (marine player) when on guard order he always interrupts my turn when i dont even draw any card from deck, so is it right ? im asking cuz with guard he can kill one of my monster and the reason why im askin is cuz there is a possibility to draw a dodge. so i was thinking that marines with guard can interrupt but only when i discard.

stan_n1 said:

Was there a question (or more) in the snipped rantish part? 'Cos it was a ***** to try and read it.

Anyway, for Guard, we play that you can't use Guard until the Invader has drawn cards and also that Panic from base game Invader deck trumps Guard. So Invader has a chance to draw and then possibly if he has or gets Panic, can use that to toss Guard. But since we nowadays play with the expansion deck, Panic point is kinda moot.

ok i got another question:

its about Cherub, in his description we see 'always dodge any attack targeting them as though..' so my question is cuz we had a situation last time we play, marine was about to shoot from rocket launcher to hit group of monsters and one one them was cherub, question - 'agile' ability is triggered by direct hit or can it be triggered by blast ability ? cuz i'm not sure, i think yes, but i'm not sure. help me. thank You.