Again - we are using Only War mainly for our Rogue Trader combat rules and we came up with problem with MIU. Again this would probably go to Only War but since Its more related to ROgue Trader i like to how other GM:s and players have dealt with this.

I dont have the only war book now with me but was it that common MIU gave +10 to tech use, operate (voidship, pilot spacecraft etc etc) and drive ground vehicle etc

I am not against it giving +10 with tanks and smaller crafts. But it giving bonus to voidships feels somewhat "not as epic" for its rarity being so low (was it rare or scarce ?)

Think about - if there would be one single (was it rare) item to give better control the ship would not EVERY captain get one. Again i am not against this if others have played with this giving +10 to operate (voidship) or whatever.

I am gonna give to the same gear to every other NPC ships pilot the same gear. This would mean benefits to enemies allso (would run away faster etc) Why ? - cos the implant is pretty cheap and usefull so would not every captain give this to ships pilot.

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Think about - if there would be one single (was it rare) item to give better control the ship would not EVERY captain get one. Again i am not against this if others have played with this giving +10 to operate (voidship) or whatever.

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Yeah. The answer is that, yeah, it's very likely that every Captain with the resources and connections would kit out much of their bridge staff with MIU:s.

Agreed, everyone would have one. But that's also the case with force fields, pain wards, gastral implants, and just about every other cheap but ridiculously useful item out there.

Agreed, everyone would have one. But that's also the case with force fields, pain wards, gastral implants, and just about every other cheap but ridiculously useful item out there.

Well.. to a degree. I doubt, for example, that most would get gastral implants, simply because while they do give you an edge, I don't think most would see the need for major invasive surgery to deal with indigestion. Likewise, I'd think that only upper-echelon soldiers would get Pain Wards (which reminds me that my Arch-Militant that I'm soon going to play needs to get one..).

I doubt a Rogue Trader would get most of his soldiers kitted out with Pain Wards, it's just not worth it, likewise, I don't think he'd consider it worth to get it himself, on average.

But MIU:s for select bridge crew, the crew hauling his ship around? No-brainer. As the Rogue Trader in my last Rogue Trader game, I actually tried to get hands on 10 MIU:s for my bridge crew, even though they were noname NPC:s (save one). I failed, of course, but yeah.

Well.. to a degree. I doubt, for example, that most would get gastral implants, simply because while they do give you an edge, I don't think most would see the need for major invasive surgery to deal with indigestion. Likewise, I'd think that only upper-echelon soldiers would get Pain Wards (which reminds me that my Arch-Militant that I'm soon going to play needs to get one..).

I doubt a Rogue Trader would get most of his soldiers kitted out with Pain Wards, it's just not worth it, likewise, I don't think he'd consider it worth to get it himself, on average.

Scarce - basically free - implants to make you immune to poison? Since you don't give an actual reason why they wouldn't do it, there's not much for me to respond to, but the sensible choice here is fairly obvious.

As for pain ward, anyone expecting to be in combat and not making themselves immune to stunning and the actual dangers of being on fire as just asking to get himself killed. While I do think they're prohibitively expensive for armies, I can't think of a reason not to take them for the command crew and any bodyguards, once you've hit a comfortable profit factor.

Scarce - basically free - implants to make you immune to poison? Since you don't give an actual reason why they wouldn't do it, there's not much for me to respond to, but the sensible choice here is fairly obvious.

And I think the risks of highly invasive surgery to be reason enough. The vast majority of people never really run into the problem of ingesting toxins and poisons often enough to feel a need to replace their entire lower-to-mid intestines.

As for pain ward, anyone expecting to be in combat and not making themselves immune to stunning and the actual dangers of being on fire as just asking to get himself killed. While I do think they're prohibitively expensive for armies, I can't think of a reason not to take them for the command crew and any bodyguards, once you've hit a comfortable profit factor.

Likewise, I can imagine that, depending on the quality of the implants of course - which the patient in question likely have no idea of - the recipient may have some objections to having his sense of touch (or similar) messed with.

But yes, obviously, any truly wealthy fat-cat will be shelling out to get it for those elite soldiers in his employ that wants it, for sure. It's incredibly useful and may well be worth the investment.

Rogue traders are not the vast majority of people, though I have to agree that it's a bit of a metagame decision. Personally, I'd say that if the GM doesn't poison your drinks every now and again, that just shows he doesn't care.

Oh, right. Rogue trader doesn't actually have rules for ingested poisons. I completely forgot.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness, but money is still money; just because we abstract it due to the Rogue Traders being obscenely wealthy doesn't really change that - and a Rogue Trader may very well not want to spend the money just to help keep servants alive, nor does he see the need to have one himself, since he doesn't count on being shot or set on fire anytime soon.

Likewise, I can imagine that, depending on the quality of the implants of course - which the patient in question likely have no idea of - the recipient may have some objections to having his sense of touch (or similar) messed with.

But yes, obviously, any truly wealthy fat-cat will be shelling out to get it for those elite soldiers in his employ that wants it, for sure. It's incredibly useful and may well be worth the investment.

Actually, the abstraction really does change that. Even if you do it like I do, however, and restrict the players to a certain amount of acquisitions per business venture (thus leaving them with sharply limited resources anyway), you can bet your unaugmented patootie that anything that provides a blanket immunity to something dangerous tops everyone's christmas lists (especially something crazy-dangerous like being stunned or losing turns). You can kill someone with a rusty nail if you have to, but you can't resist panicking from being set on fire with anything short of Rite of Pure Thought.

But a rogue trader who doesn't count on being shot and set on fire? Clearly we play in completely different galaxies. I'm actually curious as to how you even manage to play rogue trader without ending up in personal combat several times a week - though I suspect it has something to do with having competent associates, which really isn't something I'd know anything about.

But a rogue trader who doesn't count on being shot and set on fire? Clearly we play in completely different galaxies. I'm actually curious as to how you even manage to play rogue trader without ending up in personal combat several times a week - though I suspect it has something to do with having competent associates, which really isn't something I'd know anything about.

I run 2 RT games currently, One action oriented, and one that's much more scheming and manipulative.

The action-based one sees a fight every .. few game session, but around half of those are ship-battles.

The scheming one hasn't seen a fight in i while now. They usually avoid or outsmart their )prospective) opponents.

The fights they have been in have mostly been ship-to-ship, and repairs are expensive.

But a rogue trader who doesn't count on being shot and set on fire? Clearly we play in completely different galaxies. I'm actually curious as to how you even manage to play rogue trader without ending up in personal combat several times a week - though I suspect it has something to do with having competent associates, which really isn't something I'd know anything about.

I run 2 RT games currently, One action oriented, and one that's much more scheming and manipulative.

The action-based one sees a fight every .. few game session, but around half of those are ship-battles.

The scheming one hasn't seen a fight in i while now. They usually avoid or outsmart their )prospective) opponents.

The fights they have been in have mostly been ship-to-ship, and repairs are expensive.

Intrigue and no assassination attempts? Seriously? No hidden snipers, no poisoned drinks, no bombs on the Command Throne? Yeah, I just don't see intrigue without moments of artfully orchestrated murder every now and then.

Intrigue and no assassination attempts? Seriously? No hidden snipers, no poisoned drinks, no bombs on the Command Throne? Yeah, I just don't see intrigue without moments of artfully orchestrated murder every now and then.

Heh, didn't say that, just that it doesn't happen every session. Then it would just become trite

Yeah ...

so most of you agree that if there a ship with at least "decent" captain, lets say that imaginary profit factor 10 or 15 could have easily get hands on at least one (1) MIU implant for his pilot during past years. This would/ could apply for some other items and acuisitons - but in the end we talk about do I want to actually kill my players or just keep the game interesting enough.

I am not gonna play the game with giving every "must" item to the enemies. Meaby just those that players easily feel "hah we have the upper hand of this since we have this". I want to treat the game 40k - not player orietend and feel that every warp capable ship is a unique and has history and its adored by its crew like Rogue Traders ship.

I am gm in two rogue traders, one ow and one deathwatch and apart from deathwatch all those games are scheme and plan orietend with some fights happening now and then. I really avoid start playing game with mentality "you should have this, this, this and that item" - but MIU being somewhat both cool and (iconic?) implant rises some oppinions about the whole game. And dont get this wrong i am huge fan of 40k and have worked for Games Workshop here in Finland, both Hobby Trainer and Outrider.As a GM I am theme not player oriented.

Have you fellow gm:s and players chanced the acquition modifiers ? I somewhat feel that rogue traders +30 for just getting one (1) removes the epicness of certain imes. Yes Rogue Traders are rich, powerfull and exeptional figures but is that reason for them this weird modifier ? Again i am not telling that this is the "right way" but how would you as a gamer and gm feel about this ?

Would it make this surrealistic profit factor actually count more if players would actually burn some money for certain items - i feel somewhat bored for players treating money with mentality "we still have plenty of this ". And again i cant just "take away" is they have played wisely.

For my two thrones, MIU links with starships are there; they're just nothing like what the "regular" ones are. The battleship Light of Terra had a special MIU insertion rig created to allow her Lord-Captain to remain at the ready forever. If you do some digging, it is very much like an even bigger, more bad ass version of the one some Titans use. This isn't a little "plug into your arm or neck" setup, though. YOU are plugged into it, grafted into your ship forever, for the most part.

Now, let it be said that there aren't RAW rules for it. I made something up here, someplace in the House Rules threads, somewhere, and it worked pretty well, in my opinion (Bridge of the Eternal Vigil), but it took up the whole Bridge slot of a ship, and was a permanent investment of a character (they aren't going anywhere). In my stuff, the LC gets a lot of upgrades; they practically are tech-priests, for the number of cybernetics, if nothing else, and gain access to several rare Talents, at GM permission, but they are installed on the bridge, and don't go on missions. This is why it was more sensible for a captain on a ship, rather than a Rogue Trader who needs to adventure, have parties, rub elbows, explore ruins, and other wandering things.

Just a regular version, like what the Operator gets in OW, no, that can't begin to touch a miles-long, megatonnes voidcraft, IMO. Maybe a station, and several crew members could each MIU into their station, but even that, it's like a little gear turning the Earth.