They've said in the past that there will be mechanical repercussions to using the dark side, I'd imagine that would also include more concrete rules on when one becomes a darksider, or at least more on what that really means in game terms.

It's in the core rulebook that such a thing is on the horizon. Page 278 for instance, has this tidbit...

"Full-fledged Jedi and other powerful Force-users suffer unique penalties for doing this* that are not detailed here."

*converting Dark Side pips on the Force die to usable Force Points by flipping a Destiny Point and suffering strain..

While I doubt that FFG is going to give much in the way of full-blown support to Dark Side Force-users as PCs (much as how the Age of Rebellion book doesn't give much support to Imperial-centric campaigns), there's bound to be some sort of "dark side tracking/penalty" mechanic when FFG pulls back the curtain on playing "full-fledged Jedi and other powerful Force-users" since the ability to get a Force Rating higher than 3 will become officially available.

Lorne, I'd be surprised if said "dark side tracker/penalty" mechanic doesn't have more of a narrative base, particularly in comparison to the OCR/RCR d20 games (which could involve stat penalties at the higher end of things). Personally I'm a fan of the idea of a "threshold" that once the PC crosses it, they're "consumed by the dark side" and become an NPC (the approach used by d6 and Saga Edition). It could even tie into F&D's version of the Obligation/Duty mechanic, with a positive value being thing akin to AoR's Duty, while relying on the Dark Side results in the value going down, thus being less likely to trigger.

Even though it says that you can "use the dark side," it also leaves a lot up to the GM and the player. The "long term consequences" are their choice and that "fear, anger, and hatred" should be present in a character who uses the dark side. That would indicate to me that there would be no "long-term" mandatory effects, but perhaps short-term ones and most likely left at the discretion of the GM.

One long-term effect I think might be fitting for a "Sith" lord would be the lack of loyalty of friends. Palpatine was very fast to turn on a "friend" if a more powerful friend became available. He was fine with losing apprentices to get Anakin in episode 3, and was encouraging Luke to kill his father and replace him in episode 6.

The presence of mechanical penalties wouldn't be a huge problem for me, provided the vast majority of the control was left in the GM's hands, where it belongs.

"Full-fledged Jedi and other powerful Force-users suffer unique penalties for doing this* that are not detailed here."

*converting Dark Side pips on the Force die to usable Force Points by flipping a Destiny Point and suffering strain..

This is a bit of a furrowed brow moment for me.

A scared, confused, Force-Sensitive-and-on-the-run (most likely learning how to use their powers by trial and error) is less susceptible to the insidious, corrupting effects of Dark Side influence than a trained Jedi?

I know, I know - they're saying "we don't have the rules yet but we will". It's just an awkward fit.

I always saw it that the dark side was more active in its attempts recruit more powerful individuals: those with training and promise are shown greater attention by the dark side than some kid with a minor Sensitivity.

Even without the view of the force actively recruiting, since the Force is shown to have a corrupting influence (or at least to add some level of compulsion to certain actions), one could assume that more Force = more corruption when you tap into the dark side. In a manner of speaking, power corrupts, and the self-taught Force-sensitive on the run just doesn't have enough, in this case Force rating 4.

That said, the source material does lend some credence to the idea of the dark side as an active, possibly sentient force. ...that pun hurt my soul a little.

I'm not a fan of that. It's a bit, "It's not my fault - the Dark Side made me do it." I'd rather see it as a moral failing than an external intelligence. That way if you turn away from your own addiction to the power it gives, it genuinely is a redemptive act rather than a rescue or escape.

I like how the Dark side works right now. As a GM I get Dark DPs when someone dips into the Dark side. It allows me to spend them on the "repercussions" of going to the Dark side. I'll be interested to see how they expand on this. I am not a fan of taking characters away when they go Dark. Never was a fan of this maneuver, but I also don't like the idea of mixing characters. Dark side characters use Dark DPs and I could see a mixed group flipping DPs back and forth. It is why I am not a fan of groups that mix "alignments" like that. I would prefer that the entire group sticks to one side or another. If I was going to take away a character I would want the player to be okay with it, or we come up with a way to bring them back over to the Light side.

Too much "rules" in the GM's hands, though, reminds me of those debates on the Alignment system and paladins. People were entirely too literal or tried to trap people with two bad choices and so on. I like the light touch so far and hope it doesn't get too heavy handed.

Lorne, I'd be surprised if said "dark side tracker/penalty" mechanic doesn't have more of a narrative base, particularly in comparison to the OCR/RCR d20 games (which could involve stat penalties at the higher end of things). Personally I'm a fan of the idea of a "threshold" that once the PC crosses it, they're "consumed by the dark side" and become an NPC (the approach used by d6 and Saga Edition). It could even tie into F&D's version of the Obligation/Duty mechanic, with a positive value being thing akin to AoR's Duty, while relying on the Dark Side results in the value going down, thus being less likely to trigger.

And yet I would still douse any such mechanism with 89 octane and strike a match because the last thing I need is a darkside tracking game in the RAW.

I could see F&D having the Force Emergent and a Force Sensitive being the starting classes and then from there you can buy into other specialization trees. As for going to the dark side, I also like how the current rules handle it.

If one of my characters ends up falling to the dark side That character becomes a nemesis and he makes a new guy.

Even though it says that you can "use the dark side," it also leaves a lot up to the GM and the player. The "long term consequences" are their choice and that "fear, anger, and hatred" should be present in a character who uses the dark side. That would indicate to me that there would be no "long-term" mandatory effects, but perhaps short-term ones and most likely left at the discretion of the GM.

Here's the thing... Force-users aren't very powerful at all in either Edge of the Empire or Age of Rebellion. So right now, there really isn't a need for some kind of long-term penalty, other than perhaps a PC becoming a dark side Force user, which carries it's one issue as the Force-user will have a much harder time activating "big effects" that would require 3 or more Force Points to trigger (such as using Move to attack multiple targets with a Silhouette 1 or bigger object or putting a mind whammy on several Imperial stormtroopers at once instead of just one of them via Influence).

When the option to go beyond a Force Rating of 3 becomes routinely and officially available, then there needs to be some kind of check on a Force-user's power, otherwise you just get a re-hash of the all the prior Star Wars RPGs where Force-users become the stars of the show and the non-F/S folks are reduced to supporting cast. d20 was notorious for (particularly Saga Edition if you had a Jedi player that didn't willingly reign themselves in), and WEG's D6 system was far from innocent of that crime; it just took a bit longer to get there.

One thing FFG has demonstrated, at least to me, is they are aware of the mistakes of past systems, and are trying to avoid falling directly into those same pitfalls, to the point they're willing to change major concepts of the game (such as they did for how Force Power Upgrades worked in EotE Beta and Duty for the AoR Beta) based upon player feedback. And one of the recurring mistakes in prior games was that Force-users would often steal the show, to the point that GMs simply put a blanket ban on Force-users of any type, Jedi or not. Or worse yet, allow a Force-user, but then put the screws to them in the hopes of either driving that player away or making decide to play something other than a Force-user.

I have faith that if anyone can pull it off, FFG can. They've exceeded all expectations so far!

I like how the Dark side works right now. As a GM I get Dark DPs when someone dips into the Dark side. It allows me to spend them on the "repercussions" of going to the Dark side. I'll be interested to see how they expand on this. I am not a fan of taking characters away when they go Dark. Never was a fan of this maneuver, but I also don't like the idea of mixing characters. Dark side characters use Dark DPs and I could see a mixed group flipping DPs back and forth. It is why I am not a fan of groups that mix "alignments" like that. I would prefer that the entire group sticks to one side or another. If I was going to take away a character I would want the player to be okay with it, or we come up with a way to bring them back over to the Light side.

Too much "rules" in the GM's hands, though, reminds me of those debates on the Alignment system and paladins. People were entirely too literal or tried to trap people with two bad choices and so on. I like the light touch so far and hope it doesn't get too heavy handed.

Good news Mouthymerc, Darksiders do not flip dark Destiny points to light in order to use Lightside force point pips. They still use light side Destiny Points to use lightside pips. I just double checked to make sure I didn't originally read the side bar incorrectly the first time.

I think I originally interpreted this way myself, and I came to the same conclusion you did. As far as I know, PCs always use Lightside points.

So it is. I may have been mixing it up with using light and dark pips on the Force dice. One less concern anyways. Thanks.

So it is. I may have been mixing it up with using light and dark pips on the Force dice. One less concern anyways. Thanks.

Odd that you came to that conclusion. I always understood it to be that the PCs flipped the light side Destiny Points and the GM flipped the dark side Destiny Points, regardless of whether the PCs were noble outlaws or vile renegades. In effect, light side = PC pool, and dark side = GM pool.