Just curious as to how some of the GMs here have handled more than one Rogue Trader in a group. From what I've been reading it looks like there's really only room for one.

Thoughts?

There's a section about that in the core rulebook. They pretty much bring up all the ways in which you can handle it, though I personally think that Rogue Trader is an *opportunity* to have a party structure with a definitive leader, rather than have everyone squabble and fight over it like they often do in other systems.

Or, if your problem is that more than one player wants the Rogue Trader career, then just let them play it anyone and designate one PC as the *actual* rogue trader. The rest are just charismatic swashbucklers.

I have had two people both play RT's, and we simply split the PF between them to purchase a ship and its components. We decided they were siblings who had to prove to their mother that they were the rightful heir to the Warrant. This doesn't work for every group though, so a discussion with your players is required.

Another idea is for the whole group to design the ship, with all the PCs having equal voting rights on what to do next. Like knights at a round table.

Or u could pick the ship for them, and their parent/Warrant Holder/Council members/etc has decreed that they must look after each other and set aside their differences. Only then will "he" choose a successor.

Just food for thought. There is no RAW that states "There can be only one" RT btw. Happy gaming people.

Edit: heir not air, hehe.

very cool thoughts - thanks!

my one buddy has a bunch of the death watch books so i'm thinking about mixing the two together...

cheers and happy gaming =)

I know some people who simply ran with 2 allied dynasties. They generated ships and PF seperately.

Too bad the campaign ended before I could join

i was thinking of that as a possibility as well. if two or more players want to play as rogue traders then they can either be in competing houses or work for the same house within relatively close proximity to be able to support each other.

Siblings is the only way I could see this working. The elder one is the leader of the dynasty, the younger one can "captain" one of the other ships in the fleet, or serve as the Seneschal, Arch-Militant or even the high-Adviser to the RT. This is the most realistic way to handle it.

At one point in the past of both Rogue Trader Dynasties, each House's Warrant of Trade was stolen by Eldar Corsairs. After a joint operation to attempt to retrieve the Warrants failed, they were forced to negotiate with the vile Xenos for the return of Warrants. After a deal that would surely earn the ire of the Inquisition if it ever became public, the Warrants were returned, but with a typically difficult twist. The two Warrants are each sealed in separate halves of an unknown device. It is possible to remove one Warrant for verification, but if it is ever removed for more than an hour, the other half will self-destruct. Members of both bloodlines are required to unseal either half of the casket.

Thus both Rogue Traders are VERY CAREFUL to keep each other, and their joint Warrant in sight.

Heya,

Well, one Rogue Trader can be the actual Rogue Trader. I would suggest that the other Rogue Trader Explorer use the rules/mechanics, but ultimately not be the Rogue Trader and rather, be something like a Noble or Fancy Schmancy High Rank Military Son in Law. Who knows. Just something interesting, fancy, but not really the Rogue Trader. Rules are just rules. Name them what you want. It's an RPG after all.

Who's to say that you can't just roll a Missionary and rename it to be the grounds for a Xeno's ally? You can pretty much do anything you want.

Very best,

As noted, Rogue Trader is a character archetype - essentially a swashbuckling, inspirational captain type.

Nothing requires a 'rogue trader' to be a Rogue Trader, or vice-versa.

We had something similar (after a bad experience the first time we played rogue trader where a campaign became a little too much 'the adventures of the rogue trader and the people who occasionally roll dice for him').

One Rogue Trader was the Warrant-Holder (essentially in control of the profit), another was the Lord-Captain (i.e. it was his ship) - so technically one 'outranked' the other but with the same legal relationship as an admiral on board a ship of a naval Captain.

Heya,

In my current game, the GM has the Rogue Trader (the true one) as a NPC that he uses to tell the story, dictate things, etc. Very much like the Inquisitor from Dark Heresy in a way. I like this angle because it takes that dynamic out of the explorers to basically just be at the beck and call of one other player--and heaven forbid the player who has the Rogue Trader not show up for a session, etc. This way players can come and go (and have over the year we've been playing now) but it doesn't kill the campaign since our Rogue Trader is not one of the explorers but rather the GM basically and anyone could take over that roll if needed should something happen.

That means anyone can roll a Rogue Trader character for an explorer if they want, and just be a fellowship-happy swashbuckler, etc. The character is still very interesting regardless of not being the "rogue trader" for story purposes.

I tried playing a Rogue Trader as the leader before, in a game as an explorer, with a separate GM managing it, and it was very difficult to be the "leader" in a group. I know it can work for others. But for my group, having someone who is an explorer in the game basically call all the shots can kill the mood for some people.

Very best,

The best options I've seen for this path are actually touched upon in the books and various pieces of fluff.

The first is that the Rogue Trader Dynasty is so large and established that there are mutliple "lesser" Rogue Traders who all carry the authority of the Warrant, though to a smaller degree than the head of the dynasty him/herself. In play, I suppose that this could be represented by having two ships, though I think that the logistics of such a game would be a bit of a headache for the GM.

The second option is that there is a "main" Rogue Trader who holds the full authority of the warrant. Any other Rogue Traders are simply those scions who do not hold the warrant and are Rogue Traders in class only. In our own game, there is an NPC who is the PC Rogue Trader's cousin. Mechanically speaking, she is built from the Rogue Trader class, but is subordinate to the PC. This could work if there are two PC's who wish to be "Rogue Traders," but one would have to understand that they ultimately do not run the dynasty, though they could certainly have enough influence to have their way every now and then.

A little bit of PC rivalry is not necessarily bad, so long as it's all in fun and does not derail the game. Unfortunately for Rogue Trader the RPG, some players just don't like being "bossed" around by other players. And some players are not well-suited to being the boss. I think that Rogue Trader is tricky in playing out that dynamic.

At one point in the past of both Rogue Trader Dynasties, each House's Warrant of Trade was stolen by Eldar Corsairs. After a joint operation to attempt to retrieve the Warrants failed, they were forced to negotiate with the vile Xenos for the return of Warrants. After a deal that would surely earn the ire of the Inquisition if it ever became public, the Warrants were returned, but with a typically difficult twist. The two Warrants are each sealed in separate halves of an unknown device. It is possible to remove one Warrant for verification, but if it is ever removed for more than an hour, the other half will self-destruct. Members of both bloodlines are required to unseal either half of the casket.

Thus both Rogue Traders are VERY CAREFUL to keep each other, and their joint Warrant in sight.

At one point in the past of both Rogue Trader Dynasties, each House's Warrant of Trade was stolen by Eldar Corsairs. After a joint operation to attempt to retrieve the Warrants failed, they were forced to negotiate with the vile Xenos for the return of Warrants. After a deal that would surely earn the ire of the Inquisition if it ever became public, the Warrants were returned, but with a typically difficult twist. The two Warrants are each sealed in separate halves of an unknown device. It is possible to remove one Warrant for verification, but if it is ever removed for more than an hour, the other half will self-destruct. Members of both bloodlines are required to unseal either half of the casket.

Thus both Rogue Traders are VERY CAREFUL to keep each other, and their joint Warrant in sight.

A nifty thought, and some interesting ideas for RPing come to mind, but this is still why I imagine that the Warrants are stored on Earth, and a Rogue Trader carries a copy. I find it weird that an Inquisitor won't lose their power if I get their Rosette, and some won't even do anything if I'm the wrong person, but a Rogue Trader has to carry the only copy of their Warrant, and it can just be stolen. Otherwise, they're always a talented thief, or one demolished ship away from "$h!t, I can't prove I'm all-powerful, anymore." Granted, in the Imperium, their status is a bit pointless, and outside, totally pointless; it's your money and guns most people out there respond to, not a piece of paper from an Emperor they don't even know.

At one point in the past of both Rogue Trader Dynasties, each House's Warrant of Trade was stolen by Eldar Corsairs. After a joint operation to attempt to retrieve the Warrants failed, they were forced to negotiate with the vile Xenos for the return of Warrants. After a deal that would surely earn the ire of the Inquisition if it ever became public, the Warrants were returned, but with a typically difficult twist. The two Warrants are each sealed in separate halves of an unknown device. It is possible to remove one Warrant for verification, but if it is ever removed for more than an hour, the other half will self-destruct. Members of both bloodlines are required to unseal either half of the casket.

Thus both Rogue Traders are VERY CAREFUL to keep each other, and their joint Warrant in sight.

A nifty thought, and some interesting ideas for RPing come to mind, but this is still why I imagine that the Warrants are stored on Earth, and a Rogue Trader carries a copy. I find it weird that an Inquisitor won't lose their power if I get their Rosette, and some won't even do anything if I'm the wrong person, but a Rogue Trader has to carry the only copy of their Warrant, and it can just be stolen. Otherwise, they're always a talented thief, or one demolished ship away from "$h!t, I can't prove I'm all-powerful, anymore." Granted, in the Imperium, their status is a bit pointless, and outside, totally pointless; it's your money and guns most people out there respond to, not a piece of paper from an Emperor they don't even know.

It's true that much like an Inquisitorial Rosette, if all you have is a Warrant of Trade, then very shortly all you will have is a few new bullet holes, and someone else will have a nifty Warrant of Trade. Rogue Traders are free to leave their document whenever they want, but they are usually required to present it at regular intervals to prove they still have legitimacy, and if they don't have it with them all the time then there's always the possibility that it will be stolen without their knowledge that would really screw them over.

As for why the Warrants exist at all, it's because the Imperium despite all its insanity realises that having granted people complete freedom within their borders and beyond is incredibly dangerous, and if they just applied it to a family then they would weaken their hold incredibly fast. Thus they introduced a single, incredibly dangerous point of failure in regards to the Warrant, so that no matter how powerful a Rogue Trader Dynasty got, there could always be the danger it would be taken away instantly. Now it's true that the destruction of a piece of paper does not destroy the warships that a Rogue Trader has purchased over their life, but it can cut off their resources, their support, their ability to acquire replacement Navigators and Astropaths, their ability to refuel or found new colonies, etc.

Inquisitors remain Inquisitors when they lose their rosette because they "earned" their rosette through "service", both of which require quotation marks. However most Rogue Traders get their warrant by dint of being the closest genetic relative to the last Rogue Trader, and that is a horrible system of ensuring good government.

Provided only one player has an active warrant of trade I see no problem with multiple Rogue Traders in one group. I had an idea for one character that was the heir to an active dynasty and the aging Rogue Trader sent all of their heirs to ‘understudy’ with different Rogue Traders in far-away places with the stated goal of having the heir’s learn what being a Rogue Trader is all about but the actual goal of simply thinning out the supply of prospective heirs.

Just a thought, you could also have a husband and wife team.

Just like a king and queen one of the rogue traders earns their title and privilage through marriage and they both now carry the rights of the warrant of trade.

I played a game like this once.

My character was the great-niece or whatever of the former Warrantholder and an IG Colonel. By Imperial Law, she was his heir.

The other RT was the former Warrantholder's right-hand-man, he was there when the last guy died and assumed command to bring the ship out of the situation where the old guy had died, and limped her back to Port Wander.

Once I found out about the situation (in the backstory) we met and agreed to share power of the ship to avoid all the horrendous legal fees and infighting, we decided. We each had our own special things each of us could do better (I was much better at boarding actions and ship combat, he was better with being sneaky and smart). It worked out really well.

I think there are alot of ways you can make it work but it's probably not the most sensible way to go about things, what I mean by that is your proper group size is generally 3-6 players so unless you're pushing the high end having multiple of one class is somewhat crippling unless say you've got two really wildly divergent voidmasters with alternate ranks or something.

I think there are alot of ways you can make it work but it's probably not the most sensible way to go about things, what I mean by that is your proper group size is generally 3-6 players so unless you're pushing the high end having multiple of one class is somewhat crippling unless say you've got two really wildly divergent voidmasters with alternate ranks or something.

Having multiple players playing the same class is not crippling. You, as the GM, need to tailor the game to the players needs, wants, and limitations, not the players tailoring the game to you. What happens when to only have two or three players? You going to punish them for not having a Navigator. I've played games were all 4 players were Rogues, and we all ha a blast. Play what you are interested in and have fun with it. There is nothing worse than saying "we need a Navigator in the group" and forcing a new player to roll one up. He/she then becomes forced to play something they didn't like, had no interest in, and will soon lose all ambition for the game. Now, if everyone in the group is highly experienced with the game, then yes, recommending a specific archetype to him/her is okay, but ultimately it is their decision. No group should be "crippled" because they have an NPC astropath or Seneschual.

In fairness, it IS more difficult for the group to lack certain PC roles - certainly navigation and astropathic communication can easily be NPC'd, but the roles of a Seneschal or Explorator are harder (mainly because having NPCs do the negotiation and knowledge stuff takes the focus off the players). Certain roles just don't work well off-screen in the same ways.

I also think it's completely valid for the GM to set career restrictions, i.e. "no more than 1 Rogue Trader," "I'd prefer if we had a Seneschal." The game isn't ALL about the players, it's a good idea for GM and players to collaborate on expectations and making each other's roles in the game as satisfying as possible for everyone.

"In my current game, the GM has the Rogue Trader (the true one) as a NPC that he uses to tell the story, dictate things, etc. Very much like the Inquisitor from Dark Heresy in a way. I like this angle because it takes that dynamic out of the explorers to basically just be at the beck and call of one other player--and heaven forbid the player who has the Rogue Trader not show up for a session, etc."

Regarding this - just not a big fan of it. Then again I have never played in a Rogue Trader game where the RT has acted like a dictator. While the setting fluff makes this a possibility, the mechanical fact of the matter is that the RT simply can't do it all, they need their inner circle of advisors and aides just to make their ship run. And in exchange, the RT makes them rich and powerful and helps them with their goals. Exactly the same as with DH Ascension and Inquisitors with their ascended throne agents - 1 guy just cannot do it all (unless he's a primaris psyker ) I just can't see a play group willing to permanently say "Joe and only Joe decides the missions, without even consulting us." It wouldn't necessarily work in-system (your advisors can chase down leads through their own connections that you lack) and out of it, man, that is just a huge problem waiting to happen. I'd rather play up the collaborative aspect than put everything up to an NPC calling the ultimate shots though - if the players want that, DH/DW/OW all cater to that idea a LOT better.

Oh I tailor it, we don't have a Navigator or an Astropath so those are two big chunks of the game that we just never go into, but that's the thing it's alot of material that we're just not getting to use or play with. It's also a whole bunch of secondary skills and abilities that could make life easier in any number of situations but that the players have to do without.

From a player perspective it's less than ideal in another way, you're constantrly trying to climb over some other guy because you have the same skillset and you both want to step forward and do the same tasks. I think you're going to have more fun if you move into territory that lets you add something to the group that it doesn't already have. My sister joined a pathfinder group recently and they needed a healer so they asked her if she'd play a class that had healing magic, but that leaves alot of options and she did not end up with a stereotypical cleric character in the end.

I tell people when they join, you don't have to be any particular class but please look at what's already here and do something different even if it's just a divergent build with an alternate rank or two. You don't have to be a specific thing just don't be what everyone else is already doing.

I tell people when they join, you don't have to be any particular class but please look at what's already here and do something different even if it's just a divergent build with an alternate rank or two. You don't have to be a specific thing just don't be what everyone else is already doing.

I cheated.

I delegated that particular chore to the player of the RT, pointing out that he's in charge of the organization, what sort of people would he like to surround himself with? The idea was to have him do "job interviews" with people before the brought in a new character.

Not sure if it's worked well enough that I can recommend it, but it's the stated policy of that particular game as it stands.

I don't see any problem with multiple Rogue Traders. After all, any successful party is going to have multiple ships in due time. Do they really prefer a Missionary captaining one over a second Rogue Trader? You can have the primary RT be an NPC, or you could have any and all RTs be members of a Dynasty. I think the dynamic would be an interesting one, both to play and to GM. Of course, if the RTs got to arguing about a course of action and wanted to go off to different systems at the same time, that could present a problem.

As with all games a good group makes for a good game, and a bad group that can't play together shouldn't play together.

Regarding this - just not a big fan of it. Then again I have never played in a Rogue Trader game where the RT has acted like a dictator. While the setting fluff makes this a possibility, the mechanical fact of the matter is that the RT simply can't do it all, they need their inner circle of advisors and aides just to make their ship run. And in exchange, the RT makes them rich and powerful and helps them with their goals. Exactly the same as with DH Ascension and Inquisitors with their ascended throne agents - 1 guy just cannot do it all (unless he's a primaris psyker ) I just can't see a play group willing to permanently say "Joe and only Joe decides the missions, without even consulting us." It wouldn't necessarily work in-system (your advisors can chase down leads through their own connections that you lack) and out of it, man, that is just a huge problem waiting to happen. I'd rather play up the collaborative aspect than put everything up to an NPC calling the ultimate shots though - if the players want that, DH/DW/OW all cater to that idea a LOT better.

Our Rogue trader is actually so engrossed in his own personal storyline of unlocking his psychic potential and cavorting with Eldar that he leaves the mundane (re: EVERYTHING) to his seneschal. The seneschal picks through all the information and endeavors and prioritizes what should be done next. Then after he decides he goes to the lord captain (who is usually meditating in his room) and it goes something like this.

Seneschal: "My Lord, we require more vespene gas for our plasma reactor experiments. We also have need of additional crew for the voidship we just seized. There is a nearby system that has a mining colony with the gas we need. The mining colony is controlled by the pirates we just dispatched. Would you like to go there, seize the gas, conscript the men we need and claim the world as our own...or you know...do something else...

Captain: "I was thinking we could have another gladiatorial tournament in the auditorium! I want to see how many crewmen it takes to bring me down"

Seneschal: "Perhaps we could do that on the way?"

Captain: "No, I want all the senior officers to be free so that everyone who wants to can fight in the melee..."

Seneschal: "As you wish"

Two hours real time later

Seneschal: "My Lord, about that ripe world that is nearby for plundering..."

Captain: "I am disappointed that my new power armor doesn't have power spikes all over it's surface... some of the crew that attacked me survived the melee" Set a course for the nearest forge world so that I may remedy this shortfall at once!"

Seneschal: "My lord, we stole from that forge world two months ago and blew up part of their moon because the attendant to the fabricator general had the audacity to suggest you wait a half hour before you could see him."

Captain: "Are you suggesting that I wouldn't be welcome back there?!?"

Seneschal: "They wouldn't dare refuse you...but they did put a price on your head"

Captain: "Meh, set a course..."

You made me laugh with that one Rogal.

But you probably know my advice. Kill 'em. Kill that character. Kill 'em with an Eldar Farseer. The player wants psychic powers? The ship needs an Astropath.