Toying with list building,sorry if it has been asked before...

so, is it legit/legal for 'Dutch' to 'give' two TL to friendly ships per turn if rolling evade while using astromech's ability?

TIA

Yes. Assuming Dutch spends his target lock and successfully reacquires it with R5's roll then it counts as a new Target lock and he can pass it to a new ship. this is generally considered to be the best use for the somewhat lackluster R5-K6.

awesome! So in a perfect (die) scenario 'Dutch' + R5 becomes the most 'generous' rebel player out there,right?

awesome!

Not at all.

So in a perfect (die) scenario 'Dutch' + R5 becomes the most 'generous' rebel player out there,right?

Yes. In a perfect scenario he is indeed "the most 'generous' rebel player out there".

There is one catch: More often than not R5-K6 does exactly nothing. On Dutch his value is marginal. On all other pilots two points are too expensive for what R5-K6 does or, more likely, does not do.

Yes. In a perfect scenario he is indeed "the most 'generous' rebel player out there".

There is one catch: More often than not R5-K6 does exactly nothing. On Dutch his value is marginal. On all other pilots two points are too expensive for what R5-K6 does or, more likely, does not do.

I'm struggling to find a reason to buy my first Y-wing expansion and 'Dutch's generousity seems to be the only one I can find...

I'm struggling to find a reason to buy my first Y-wing expansion and 'Dutch's generousity seems to be the only one I can find...

Both Dutch and Horton are fine pilots. Any Y-Wing with Ion Turret is good. R2 is great. That are four reasons for getting the Y-Wing expansion.

Y-Wings are quick sturdy ships. They have a decent movement dial, which become great with an R2 unit. Ion turrets are fun times, especially with their move dial, as they can constantly jink out of arc while ioning enemies.

The problem with K6 is that his ability isn't automatic. It fails about half the time, and you pay 3 points for the right to do so. Compare that, then to Fire Control System (which yes, I realize the Y-Wing can't take, but it's a card with an extremely similar effect), which costs TWO points, and is automatic, and it looks like an even worse use of points than it already was.

K6 is 2 points. It fails exactly 5/8 of the time.

I would like K6 a lot more if it let you use the new Target Lock immediately on a torpedo attack.

Sable, I think that the Astromech unit were supposed to be slightly synergistic with the pilot they flew with in the movies. Garven would have been a VERY cool pilot if he could pass off his blue target lock token to someone with range 1 instead of discarding it OR have R5-K6 do something like "When you discard a focus token, on an Evade or Eye result, you may assign an additional focus token to your ship" to mesh with Garvens ability. Luke + R2-D2 is awesome. Biggs + R2-F2 is awesome. Wedge doesn't have his droid (unknown droid ATM) but a generic R2 is good enough for him since he wants that target lock that he needs to boost his damage output.

K6 is 2 points. It fails exactly 5/8 of the time.

OK, fair enough, it costs the same as FCS, only fails 62.5% of the time, versus succeeding 100% of the time.

Except that when it does work on Dutch, it provides TWO target locks. This includes one that can be given to anyone and used immediately. Even stressed ships can use the "free" lock, which is a very big deal. When you take that into consideration R5K6 on Dutch is worth at least as much as a FCS is on a B-Wing, and probably more.

This doesn't make it a great upgrade in general, but it is good on Dutch and not completely useless on other Y-Wings.

Except that when it does work on Dutch, it provides TWO target locks. This includes one that can be given to anyone and used immediately. Even stressed ships can use the "free" lock, which is a very big deal. When you take that into consideration R5K6 on Dutch is worth at least as much as a FCS is on a B-Wing, and probably more.

This doesn't make it a great upgrade in general, but it is good on Dutch and not completely useless on other Y-Wings.

No, god no. We'll have to disagree on that one. It works basically 1 in 3 times. The fact Dutch makes it double or nothing doesn't make it much better of a bet. When you take into consideration that it's going to work only about 1 time in 3, only if he has a friend in range, and only matter if that friend is stressed or in desperate need of a target lock, it's so incredibly situational that there's just no way it's worth "at least as much," let alone more than FCS on a B-Wing.

Hey, Steve, would you like a B-Wing with a 100% renewable target lock, starting at 24 points? Or, would you like Dutch with R5K6 starting at 25 points? (Note: R5K6 will do absolutely nothing 62.5% of the time, and a wingman to pass a target lock to the 37.5% of the time it does work is sold separately. So you could probably just buy a second B-Wing, give it FCS, too, and forget the dumb droid.)

While Fire Control System is unquestionably better than R5-K6 at what they do, there's an important consideration in comparing them: Advanced Sensors.

That may sound strange, but FCS carries with it an opportunity cost, and Advanced Sensors is the Push the Limit of Wave 3. At only 1 point more, it does so much to improve the overall function of any ship that it seems very hard to justify the FCS which, while nifty, has too many limitations to stack up.

R5-K6 has a bit of that as well - the basic R2 does so much to help fix the Y-wing's maneuver problem that it's a built-in cost for me... but Advanced Sensors is an absolutely standout card that, IMHO, you need a REALLY good reason not to use. This is hard to argue with in general, I think, but since Wave 3 hit I think something like 90% of the "Fix this ship!" threads start with "Give it a System slot..."

Well yeah, there is that. AdvS is freaking awesome, so good it's hard to justify taking FCS, which makes the argument a bit moot.

Might as well argue about whether a bicycle or tricycle is a better means of transportation until someone comes along and says "hey idiots, why not just drive a car?"

You make it sound like it would be unusual for Dutch to have wingmen. Your alternative to the dumb droid is a B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, who can barrel roll / boost / Focus before maneuvering and have the little droid give him a TL on top of that. If you skip the droid and put the FCS on the B-Wing, it loses the Advanced Sensors. Better, the dumb droid hands the TL to whichever ship is currently in position to use it.

More than that, the whole reason to run Dutch at ALL is because he passes target locks. You talk as if it were some sort of unreasonable thing to have Dutch in position to hand out target locks. As for the wingmen, if any of them take focus (highly likely) Dutch with R5K6 provides the opportunity to have one for certain and perhaps two fire with both TL and Focus, without the loss of Dutch's action. That is a HUGE deal.

The Y-Wing dial is really not particularly burdensome, so giving up R2 on a Y-Wing is a pretty minor inconvenience. Giving up Advanced Sensors on a B-Wing IS a major concession. Also, under no circumstances does a Fire Control System help a B-Wing on the first turn, where R5K6 with Dutch can help on that first turn, and front-loaded damage is king. Finally, Fire Control System is actually pretty easy to counter, just make sure you bump into the B-Wing that has a TL on you.

I don't understand why you believe it is so incredibly situational. A situation where Dutch has wingmen, and those wingmen have focus, is something you will encounter every single game and on pretty much every single turn. If the situation is that common it really isn't an issue. That is like saying Focus is situational since it only ever occurs when a ship with a Focus on its action bar gets an action.

Look, I agree that R5K6 is not very good. On any ship besides Dutch he is awful. In fact, he probably has the distinction of being one of the top 2 or 3 worst upgrades in the game. On Dutch he manages to be adequate. Not great, just adequate. Don't take away his (very) small claim to fame.

In fact, he probably has the distinction of being one of the top 2 or 3 worst upgrades in the game. On Dutch he manages to be adequate. Not great, just adequate. Don't take away his (very) small claim to fame.

care to specify other terrible (top5) upgrades please?

I have the aweful feeling that I may have a tendency to try using weird upgrades all the time...

I took up your challenge, and realized that R5K6 is only #5 on my all time worst list! Woohoo! This is still not a badge of distinction, it reflects only that I find him useful in one particular situation and the other 4 mostly useless in ALL situations. Starting with the absolute worst, and working my way towards the moderately useful but still mostly bad.

#1 Expose: 4 points, your EPT, plus your action, and you still have to give up an Agility! Everybody likes an extra attack die, but this stinker means you don't get access to other, much, MUCH better Elite Pilot Talents.

#2 Saboteur: 2 points, a crew slot, your action, only works on ships that already have damage, is restricted to Range 1, gives you a random effect that probably won't add damage to the ship you hit, and you still have a 50/50 chance that it fails to go off. 'Nuff said.

#3 R2F2: This is the first one people might disagree with. However, 3 points plus your action makes him strictly worse than a focus, only marginally better against multiple attacks, and a strictly defensive upgrade. The only time you will ever see him in action is on Biggs, only if he can get a focus from other sources, and even then it is uncommon and very rarely worth 3 points. If I absolutely must spend exactly 3 points on Biggs, I personally find R5D8 more helpful so at least I don't need to "combo-up" in order to get some use out of him.

#4 R5D8: He really isn't half bad in and of himself, but the fact that he only works on facedown cards means he doesn't get a chance to start working until you are nearly dead anyway. In those circumstances, you are generally taking focus in order to keep from blowing up immediately.

#5 R5K6: For all of the reasons mentioned by Crooked Wookie earlier in this thread. He uses your droid slot, only lets you reacquire a lock you had grabbed previously through normal means, and despite that he fails more than half the time. Like R5K6 there is only one pilot in the game who uses him, in this case Dutch, but since he is more helpful for Dutch than R2F2 is for Biggs I have to rate R2F2 as the "worse" of the two. If it weren't for Dutch specifically, I would rate R5K6 as the worst upgrade in the game, hands down.

When arguing about an upgrades usefullness, isn't the "it uses your xxx slot" argument completley useless? Is there a droid that doesn't use your droid slot? Is there an EPT that doesn't use an EPT slot? Is there a crew that doesn't use a crew slot?

Interesting analysis non the less, I'm just in a nitpicky mode today

When arguing about an upgrades usefullness, isn't the "it uses your xxx slot" argument completley useless? Is there a droid that doesn't use your droid slot? Is there an EPT that doesn't use an EPT slot? Is there a crew that doesn't use a crew slot?

This is true, obviously, but because you're limited in the number of slots, the opportunity cost is different based on the slot. For instance, taking R5-K6 doesn't cost you the option of taking Push the Limit; taking Determination does. That adds an additional cost to Determination, because it locks you out of one of the two best (arguably broken) upgrades in the game.

In this case, R5-K6 doesn't have much of a slot opportunity cost, because none of the astromechs are truly outstanding cards - I think both R2-D2 and the R2 Astromech are good, but neither are PtL good. But FCS does have a large slot opportunity cost - taking FCS means no Advanced Sensors, and that's a lot to give up.

I would also like to say that R5 does have a second home as Garven's droid in action economy builds. While Garven usually wants to take a focus action unless none of his buddies are in range, and most of the time even then, if a squad leader or Lando can get him a lock (I'm assuming if Dutch is around he's the one with R5) the little droid can help him hold onto it a little longer, which while not amazing isn't bad.

R5 is certainly on the lower end of the awesome scale but there are things to make him work. He might even become somewhat useful if the capital ships end up being something you really want to torpedo. He'll still never be a match for fire control of course but since they do the exact same thing only one has a failure chance that's never going to change.

Which pack comes with R5-K6? I am missing Falcon and Slave One and maybe one EU ship that is not Moldy Crow.

Is it a misprent that Dutch and Salm cant have have upgrades besides astromech turret and torpedos?

Which pack comes with R5-K6? I am missing Falcon and Slave One and maybe one EU ship that is not Moldy Crow.

Is it a misprent that Dutch and Salm cant have have upgrades besides astromech turret and torpedos?

R5-K6 comes with the X-Wing expansion.

No, it is not a misprint.

If you have R5-K6 and a torpedo, do you get to roll for the renewed target lock in between using it to fire, and actually firing, hence giving you the chance to use it to modify the torpedo roll?

Slightly optomistic hoping that you can, but his card text does say immediately!