Again, unnamed pilots do not get rules text!

I see what you're going for and you're getting closer but I still don't feel like your faction has an identity. It's the best and worst of the 2 other factions and while that might work at the casual level it doesn't inspire me to want to play your faction. The one point bump was neccasary. I still think Title is the way to go for a diewing.

I think the 2 traits that a pirate faction should have are ambush and acquisition. My Juryrig action and ambush upgrade can account for that. Juryrig upgrade might need some clarification:

Juryrig- before set up choose one non-unique droid, modification, or system upgrade not equipt to your ship at no extra cost. Action: you have that chosen upgrade until the end of turn. Gain one stress token.

You could even have it be an upgrade from an enemy ship or a destroyed enemy ship (but take no stress to get it anymore- but that might be the "scavenge" action instead).

Ambush also allows them to change combat tactics by setting up differently or with an advantage. Again, something pirates would want to do, spacefaring or not. Right now you're still using imperial and rebel left overs instead of doing your own thing; that's cool for fluff but not for a 3rd faction to a well balanced minis game.

Sorry if I upset you. Maybe I posted this in the wrong thread, because if you look at the names of the pilots you will notice that there are multiple factions among the cards. Nay, I said that the group was a Fringe group which would be available for either faction or on their own. I posted several pilots for one ship, which could also be used by pirates. You said that unnamed pilots do not get their own text, but then you say that the pilots I posted do not have a flavor all their own. If your comment is a continuation of the die wing, don't shoot the messenger. I've already said that I'm just passing it along.

Anyhow, each pilot type that I posted could be used in either faction lists or in addition to anything acceptable in casual play. If you notice I listed mercenaries and pirates, which are nothing alike in real life, so they don't function similarly in these proposed pilot cards. Use them or not, it's all just for fun.

Not upset, this thread kinda merged two thread ideas, one pass along one development of a third faction. I'm more focused on the development of a third as I think it will be vital to long term game continuation without either going backwards to clone wars or waiting to move forward after the new movies (and having the game live long enough to do so).

The Fringe faction was on in previous minis play and might work here but since we already have ships that do cross faction traits so there is less room to work here. We already have imperial star fighters with shields and rebel ships with massive maneuverability. I think a third faction with certain named cross over uniques is the way to go here (chewie flying a Lambda is a great example).

Is this better?

Your stats are good but I still dislike special abilities on non-named ships. Use upgrades and/or titles to get those abilities on your ships.

They are all named, in a way. I didn't realize till now but these are not the most updated cards. The PS1-4 all have special abilities, and they are limited like unique pilots in that you can not field more than four of one kind in a squad. In this way, they are unlike rebel or imperial factions. They are named but not unique. PS1 & 2 relate to obstacles, while PS3 & 4 deal with firepower.

I contemplated what you said, about a third faction that had a flavor all its own. I agreed. Here, each PS has its own purpose, unlike in the other factions where typically the lower PS only mean a difference in moving/shooting order. For example, scouts would be familiar with flying among asteroids in the shipping lanes and would therefore not be hindered by them being obstructions in a fight.

PS2-4 are really focused on squad building. PS2 is an ambush squad, which would only work with more than one ship. PS 3 & 4's abilities do not work with one ship, only with more than one. They are squad based abilities. The squad ability for maximum effect for the PS2 Ambush pilots is really good for a round or two. The PS3 & 4 abilities are good until there is only one of that PS Tye left.

See what I'm saying? I see what you are saying, that ship types shouldn't have special abilities. I agree. In the case I present, it is the squad that has the ability, not the ship.

Hmmm... Still not sold. I think the die-wing title is good, could either reduce cost straight up or be traded in for upgrades. I think the ambush ability could just be a new upgrade type; for 1-2 pts there are a lot of ships that could benefit and a lot of strategy that could be added.

One of the games cores is that you don't get abilities unless its a unique pilot, abilities are divorced from ships. I am also unsure about fluff- pirate/smuggler/mercenaries having better squad cohesion than the Imperial war machine? Than the renown rebel {scum} flights? Seems off.

The flavor is right: using obstacles, divergent set up rules, inferior tech... Just isn't quite coming together for me.

BTW I disagree with you Rakky, I have no issue with abilities on non-unique pilots, even negative ones. As long as cards don't have multiple abilities I think you are fine..

You say you want them to be unique, but then have an issue with making them unique in a simple easy to understand way. I feel one ability per card is important, but I don't see only unique pilots having abilities as being a problem. In fact I would have all the base low level Uglies with a negative abillity built in, that only gets removed for better non-unique and unique pilots. They are meant to be stuck together junk fighters and having a negative like "When performing a turn roll an Attack dice on a Hit take a damage" or "Damage cards are dealt face up" makes a lot of sense.

I really don't like your upgrades, it adds unnecessary complication to what should be simple, a base Die-Wing with a negative ability is far less complex than a whole lot of cards with clauses about how and when they can be attached.

Saying that part of me thinks it should be

PS 1 - Die-Wing with Death Trap

PS 2 - Die Wing with no ability

PS 3 - Unique Named Pilot with ability

PS 4 - Unique Named Pilot with ability

PS 5 - Unique Named Pilot with ability

PS 5 - Unique Named Pilot with ability

I wouldn't go above PS 5 as a decent pilot is not going to fly a piece of junk like the Die-Wing

Rodent, did you make multiple pilots for your z-ceptor? I did one on Saturday but I'm going to redo the guns. I gave it a silver and red astromech, not that it matters.

Wookiepedia sais that it had the guns from the tie and the headhunter, but the numbers column on the right said only two cannons. My buddy and I came up with 3-1-3-3, PS4, 23 points.

I don't want them to be unique, I want the basic tenets of the game to remain. You have a way to get "death trap" onto a ship in the form of modifications and titles- use it.

As to my upgrades, they are not perfect by any means, and just tossed out there to get things going.

I don't want them to be unique, I want the basic tenets of the game to remain. You have a way to get "death trap" onto a ship in the form of modifications and titles- use it.

As to my upgrades, they are not perfect by any means, and just tossed out there to get things going.

It's a messy way to do so. Therefore it's better to just put it directly on the card.. They still don't have multiply rules. It's only you that is making it a BASIC TENET.. It's really not.

Rodent, did you make multiple pilots for your z-ceptor? I did one on Saturday but I'm going to redo the guns. I gave it a silver and red astromech, not that it matters.

Wookiepedia sais that it had the guns from the tie and the headhunter, but the numbers column on the right said only two cannons. My buddy and I came up with 3-1-3-3, PS4, 23 points.

I went 2-1-5-1 I think. It made sense as it is a Z-95 hull with a Tie Hull over the top, and then extra plating, it's going to be tough but not very maneuverable. It's also only running half the solar collectors of the Interceptor and is going to have problems balancing power output so 3 Attack didn't feel right.

I don't want them to be unique, I want the basic tenets of the game to remain. You have a way to get "death trap" onto a ship in the form of modifications and titles- use it.

As to my upgrades, they are not perfect by any means, and just tossed out there to get things going.

It's a messy way to do so. Therefore it's better to just put it directly on the card.. They still don't have multiply rules. It's only you that is making it a BASIC TENET.. It's really not.

It's possible to meet in the middle with an alternative hull symbol. We've seen alternative attack markers on the YT-1300 and the Firespray, no reason to not extend that to the other core stats. Make a hull symbol that means Death Trap and everybody's happy.

I do think flavor is a potential concern. These uglies look ugly, but don't necessarily feel like pirates so much as inferior rebels/imperials. To fix that, we could consider ships with blue attack symbols to signify pirate craft armed only with ion cannons or freighters with some sort of boarding rule. "If Pirate Freighter is touching an enemy ship, it may recieve one stress to deal one damage card to the other ship. Neither ship may move next turn."

Yeah but creating a upgrades with negative values, or effects isn't in the BASIC TENET rules as it stands either AND it's horribly messy. How do you mark it, this modification is compulsory? If your going to change something it's best to change it in the simplest way. If you want a base ship to have a negative effect, stamp it directly on the ship. Much in the same way the 360 arc on the YT-1300 is stamped directly on the ship or the rear arc on the Firespray.. Before Wave 2 they didn't exist.

I feel that the trick to making them feel like a pirate faction is in the base stats and the pilot special abilities. Also possibly a new Upgrade icon.

I wouldn't make it compulsory. I would cost the ship as usual and allow use of this modification to reduce its cost. That then gives you even more options. Now you have created 2 new options within the existing framework of the game.

I agree that a new faction needs a new identity, not just Rebel {scum} or Imperial light.

Rodent,

I'm happy with the tye list I posted here. You contributed quite a bit to the abilities, so I was hoping to pick your brain for the zceptor. I think of the ship as an ion platform or damage control. My friend put a cannon slot on it so we could use Auto blaster, ion cannon, or HLC. I liked that.

It sounds like we are nearly on the same page for the z-ceptor. What were you thinking about for named pilots?

Thanks again for all you do for the hobby.