Hi all

recently our Templar Calix got her hands on a force sword. The IH says that as a free action the wielder can channel psy energy and it should be 'treated as a psychic power' - my question is: can she use other power this round? (the rules state only one power per round)

It says that the free action is to be treated as a power with Threshold 6. It doesn't say it should be treated as a Focus Power Action. But that really doesn't matter, becuase this power can only be used when the psyker attacks with the force weapon, and a Standard Attack Action is the same as a Focus Power Action for the purpose of determining which actions can be used in the same round.

So it's either Attack and use the force weapons power, or just use a psychic power. Simple as that.

there are some psychic powers like distort vision that are free actions too - so it is possible to attack and use a power in the same round

*sigh*

The errata clearly states on page ten paragraph 4:

"The first paragraph in the Using Psychic Powers section
starting on page 161 should include the addition: “Making
a Focus Power Action is the psychic equivalent of a
Standard Attack Action, and counts as such for purposes
of determining what else a psyker can do in a round.
Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot
make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same
round. A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round
with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker
is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/dark-heresy/pdf/darkheresy-errata-v2.0.pdf

Hope this helps...

I know this (or I'm really dumb)

but

a) one power per round - got it

b) some powers are free to use - so you can do full attack and still use the power (since it's a free action)

c) is the special ability of a force weapon A psychic power, so can I use for example 'distort vision' AND channel the energy - that's the question. If this is another psychic power then fine, I can't use it in the some round. If it's not (only treated as such for the purpose of detrmining its effect) then I can use a free action psy powe and channel the enegry.

Otherwise why would those powers have free action use time if they were treated as standard attacks?

Otherwise why would those powers have free action use time if they were treated as standard attacks?

Because there are a few other things you can do with your actions apart from attacking - and most of the attack-boosting powers work until the end of your next turn, so you could for example manifest Precognitive Strike for a free action, Aim for a full action and then in your next round snipe someone with a +40 (or +50 with an accurate weapon) bonus.

Personally, I'm hoping for clarification of that rule in the next errata.

Cifer said:

My personal theory on this rule is: they read psykers are overpowered in the forums and than went to "fix" it without thinking things through. Please explain to me how Precognitive Strike is supposed to work in a melee fight were you can't aim and what is with Divine Shot were you hit automatically? Also taking into account the description of the Divine Shot, using it in one round and actually shooting the next round, makes zero sense.

Another example: Catch Projectiles is a reaction and protects till the end of your next turn, but according to the letter of this rule you can only use it if you don't attack or use a power on your turn. Making it pretty much useless, as you have chose between being protected against a specific threat or actually taking part in the fight. It's the same with Precognitive Dodge.

Patrick said:

You can Aim in a melee fight. It says right in the description for the Aim action that it applies to Weapon Skill and to Ballistic Skill. Since Precognitive Strike lasts until the end of your next turn then you can on Round 1 use Precognitive Strike as a Free Action then Aim as a full action and then on Round 2 hit whatever it was that is offending you with a +40 to your Weapon Skill or do a Called Shot and still get a +20.

Divine Shot is funky though. It is a Free Action like you said but it never says when the shot has to occur. It doesn't say "this turn" or "before the end of your next turn." I'm going to run it that Divine Shot is rolled in conjunction with the Ballistic Skill Roll.

Patrick said:

Both Catch Projectiles and Precognitive Dodge are excellent ways for a psyker to get into melee combat without being filled full of holes on the way in. Alternatively they both excellent way for a psyker to get out of trouble if he finds himself outgunned and/or outnumbered. Heck the fact that Catch Projectiles has a Range of 1m x Willpower Bonus means it's a good way to help out your buddies as well. Neither power seems useless to me at all.

Cardinal Fang said:

True, just read it again. You can aim in a melee fight. I must have gotten something mixed up there.

Cardinal Fang said:

Which is against the rule, as it is written now.

Cardinal Fang said:

So it's usefull for a melee optimized psyker and for running away, does strike me as a bit limited for a major power. I see the need that psykers can't shoot and use an attack power in the same round, but it kind of feels stupid with powers that take only a free action or a reaction. Also, given the fact that using those powers can potentially cause more damage to me than the bullets, it seems a bit limited and situational.

In my opinion powers with a focus time of free action and reaction should be exempt from this rule.

Before somebody cries now Psykers are so overpowered they need to be nerfed every way possible, despite the already ridiculously high chance of phenomena, please reread all those threats arguing like that and notice that almost all the posts mention a few specific powers, most often seal wounds (which I have to say is overpowered) and Fire Storm (also overpowered). So because of a few overpowered abilities, every aspect of a class needs to be nerfed? That makes sense exactly how?

Which is against the rule, as it is written now.

Right now there is no rule that says when to shoot. In fact, it doesn't say you need an action to shoot at all - if it didn't violate my idea of common sense, I'd say that according to the description the shot is a part of the power's manifestation, meaning it would be part of the Free Action. Based on similar powers like Precognitive Strike, I consider the "must be used before end of next turn" to be the most likely interpretation.

So it's usefull for a melee optimized psyker and for running away, does strike me as a bit limited for a major power. I see the need that psykers can't shoot and use an attack power in the same round, but it kind of feels stupid with powers that take only a free action or a reaction.

So... has the major power Burning Fist any use for psykers not wanting to engage enemies in melee? Most psyker powers have sharply delineated uses.

And the more I think about it, the more I like Precognitive Dodge for a Templar character - on the first round of combat, use the power and a Run action. On the second round, you're still protected by it and should be able to get into melee with a Charge, on which you can use your force weapon's ability. This lets you clear 27 metres and you're at a -50 to hit (which reminds me of a certain feral Guardsman of my group who thought it would be a great idea to try a 150 metre sprint over open terrain towards two enemies armed with lasguns and who was not in the slightest bit psychic...).

Cifer said:

Actually, I was thinking the other way around. That the Divine Shot Free Action is done in conjunction with the Attack Action. Which, as Patrick mentioned, is still against RAW but I don't have a problem making this one power an exception. I can always rationalize it by thinking of it not as two Attack Actions (Psychic Pwer and Shooting) but as one really complicated Attack Action involving a lot more dice.

Cifer said:

Until I reread the Catch Projectiles power I didn't realize it had a range. That seems to make it rather more like a force field. I forsee the Pysker getting shoved in front of the party alot more.

Skie said:

b) The way I play is only one psychic power per round regardless if it's a free action or not. The errata clearly states this.

"A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round
with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker
is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

c) Good question. A house rule may need to be in order for that one.

The errata clearly didnt realize the effect this has on reactive and free powers.

The way we do it, is that all half or full action powers work as per the errata. But that free and Reactives work like normal free and reaction abilities. Ie, you can do precognitive strike then attack with a sword or do another power etc.

I believe that is only supposed to apply to half actions. When reading the Free actions section, it says "in addition to any other actions you make in the round"

It also says under half action "Note you cannot make the same half action twice"

It then goes down to say "During your turn you can make one full action or two different half actions"

So if something is a free action, it doesnt limit what you can do for the round. So if you had a free action standard attack, and a Half action standard attack, you could have two attacks. And outside of your turn your limit doesnt apply, so you could use a reaction power in the same round you attacked.

Also, using the logic from the previous posters, as long as I didnt do a standard attack action, and did a full auto burst or a charge action, I could use a psychic power.

- And I am of the mind that reaction powers should be off the limit of one per turn. I mean, a guy can dodge twice in one turn then charge and attack, but if I catch projectiles early in the turn I cant use another power, but can still shoot? And if I use a power early in the round, I cant use catch projectiles, but I have the ability to dodge bullets?

It really doesnt make any sense.

I cant believe no one has responded to this when there is such a wide scale belief of a rule that is wrong.

I can't see a question in your post I could respond to. You've stated your opinion. I've stated mine previously. What else shall I post?

Thats because its not an opinion, free actions dont limit what you can do for a round. So I would like to know where this general consensus comes from that you cant use a free action spell and attack in a round? Or did no one bring this up previously?

Varius said:

We see what you’re saying. My GM would allow the force weapon free action power to be used but wouldn't allow me to do a Distort Vision and shoot my shotgun in the same round. Why?!! I dunno. Doesn't make sense....

Like most have mention before clarification needs to be made. I suggest an Errata for the errata IMO....

Thats the thing, its not prohibited in the rules. Only if an action is a half action are you prevented from doing it twice in one round. So you can use a free action power and shoot in the same turn under the RAW.

People keep thinking that you cant do the same action twice in one round. Thats not true. It only states that you have to do two different half actions during your turn. If a power is a free action or reaction, it doesnt count towards the limit. Its not a half action, even though it counts as an attack, so its not bound by the no two of the same half actions rule. Im not sure where this concept that you cant use a free action power and attack came from, when it allowed by the rules using the errata.

Under the errata as a psyker you cannot shoot your shotgun and do distort vision in the same round.

Because the Errata 2.0 states on page 10 last sentance in the fourth paragraph that:

" A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round
with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker
is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

Why did they do this? Because a bunch of munchkins psykers were using free actions like precognitive strike, and precognitive dodge and every free action they could along with their movement and everything else.

Jonas_Leman said:

Err, I dont manifest a shotgun, I shoot it. "Manifest" is the act of using a power....

I should clarify. That thing you bolded and underlined just prevents using two powers in one turn, so you cant use a free action and half action power during your turn. That in itself proves my point, because you wouldnt need to do that if free actions prevented the half actions you did in your turn.

Right.... So the whole paragraph is as follows:

The first paragraph in the Using Psychic Powers section
starting on page 161 should include the addition: “Making
a Focus Power Action is the psychic equivalent of a
Standard Attack Action, and counts as such for purposes
of determining what else a psyker can do in a round.
Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot
make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same
round. A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round
with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker
is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

So as a psyker you manifest a power but cannot shoot your gun because manifesting a power counts as a standard attack.

You can still manifest a power and do a half move or aim or any other half action as long as the psychic power wasn't a full action. But you cannot do a psychic power and attack in the same round according to the new rules.

You know what, open your rule book and read it yourself. I have already been over this.

A free action doesnt inhibit your ability to use half actions. Ever! So a free action power doesnt prevent you from attacking. Its right there, if you read and absorb what the book tells you.

What has happend is that all of you have come to the conclusion that you cant do the same thing twice in one round. That is not true, as per the rules. What is true is that you cant use the same half action twice in one round. If a power is a free action, it doesnt prevent you from attacking.

Im not sure how much clearer I can be.

Varius said:

Here, I will quote what I said on the previous page, direct quotes from the book.

The errata didnt change any of these. It only added an extra bit on focus power.

The errata said that manifesting a power was to be treated as equivalent to a Standard Attack Action for what else you can do in the round. A Standard Attack Action is a half action. Reading into the errata that it isn't to be treated as a Standard Attack Action for all purposes of what else you can do in the round is a valid interpretation, but not automatic. Thus, your quote starting with "I believe" was quite a bit more accurate than your totalitarian stance right now.