I'm pretty sure when you use a card, once it's started it doesn't matter what the outcome of any part of it is, all parts of it continue to resolve (an example of this could be Vader, it doesn't matter if the 2 damage destroys your ship, the critical damage still resolves). So with Ellusiveness "assign a stress to your ship" and "causes the attacker to reroll an attack" all that matters is you could generate a stress, if that is the case you can play the card, and both parts of it resolve independently.

The reason that Soontir's ability doesn't work is it's conditional on him receiving the stress not the stress being generated.

On kind of a side note to this, do ay of you have much experience playing games with blended squads? is it fun or does it produce some OP synergy?

I'm pretty sure when you use a card, once it's started it doesn't matter what the outcome of any part of it is, all parts of it continue to resolve (an example of this could be Vader, it doesn't matter if the 2 damage destroys your ship, the critical damage still resolves).

The Expert Handling ruling concerning removal of the target lock contradicts this. If you don't complete the barrel roll, you don't get to remove a target lock.

We might be able to hang the difference on the text saying "Then..." but we honestly don't know.

I'm pretty sure when you use a card, once it's started it doesn't matter what the outcome of any part of it is, all parts of it continue to resolve (an example of this could be Vader, it doesn't matter if the 2 damage destroys your ship, the critical damage still resolves).

The Expert Handling ruling concerning removal of the target lock contradicts this. If you don't complete the barrel roll, you don't get to remove a target lock.

We might be able to hang the difference on the text saying "Then..." but we honestly don't know.

But that could easily come under you can't play the card at all, it's just not a valid card to play if you couldn't start the barrel roll. This seems in keeping with the rules, you can't declare a barrel roll action if the barrel roll is not legal, it's not that the barrel roll fizzles or doesn't go off, you can't even attempt the action. Expert Handling is a similar action, you can't declare the action. But if you can start the card all part resolve.

This is similar to what I was saying about Vadar not being able to be played if the ship is already on 0 hull. If for example a ship said it could not be assigned stress, then the Elusiveness would not be a valid play.

In other words what is important is the item could be performed, not what happens to it when it's performed.

Yep and as the Rebs have no stress removal abilities it really is once per turn.

...Maybe that's what Princess Leia's card will do?

Poor Han would probably NOT like it except she is on his ship. "Han shot first"... Lol

But that could easily come under you can't play the card at all, it's just not a valid card to play if you couldn't start the barrel roll.

That isn't even close to what the ruling says. It even adds the "check before you do it" verbiage to allow measuring the barrel roll to help you decide if you want to do it. There's nothing that even hints that the Expert Handling action itself is prohibited.

But that could easily come under you can't play the card at all, it's just not a valid card to play if you couldn't start the barrel roll.

That isn't even close to what the ruling says. It even adds the "check before you do it" verbiage to allow measuring the barrel roll to help you decide if you want to do it. There's nothing that even hints that the Expert Handling action itself is prohibited.

There are definitely a place where it states you check and if you can't perform the barrel roll you don't start it. The Barrel roll does not get used up if you check and can't do it. you just don't carry it out. The same is true in the case of Expert Handling you check and can't play the card if the barrel roll is not valid.

With Expert Handling, you check to see if you could perform a barrel roll. If you could do so, you can play the card. When you play the card you independently perform a barrel roll and remove a Target Lock

With Elussiveness, you check to see if a stress could be assigned. If it could be, you can play the card. When you play the card you independently assign a stress and get the opponent to reroll a dice.

I don't see the 2 situations to be contradictory in any way.

Page 8 of the rulebook:

The same is true in the case of Expert Handling you check and can't play the card if the barrel roll is not valid.

Again, no. The ruling doesn't even hint at this:

Q: If a ship uses the action on Expert Handling, but cannot perform the barrel roll because other ships are in the way or because it already barrel rolled this round, does it still resolve the rest of the card’s effect?

A: No. If the ship cannot perform a barrel roll action, the rest of the card’s effect does not occur. The owner of the ship may check to see if a barrel roll is possible before committing to this action.

If you can't complete the barrel roll, you don't get further benefit from the action. But there is nothing there, at all, that says you cannot use Expert Handling if you can't complete the barrel roll. If you couldn't declare Expert Handling at all without a legal barrel roll, the first half of the answer would be irrelevant. The fact that they needed to clarify what happens if you use Expert Handling when you can't perform the barrel roll points rather strongly to the fact that you can use Expert Handling even if you can't perform the barrel roll.

That is functionally identical to what I said. There is no difference between a card not being able to be played and a card being played but having no effects on the game. But yeah it does mean I'm technically wrong. So I will have to change that to, all parts of the card are carried out independantely, or the entire card has no effect.

So I will have to change that to, all parts of the card are carried out independantely, or the entire card has no effect.

I hate to keep hammering the point, but I don't think this is correct either - or at the very least, it's not a statement in the rules and not something we can derive conclusively from the rulings. The Expert Handling rulings suggests at least a single case of upstream dependency, i.e. that previous elements must complete or later elements fizzle. But we have no idea of what the actual scope of that is - is it only Expert Handling? Does it mean all downstream effects? Only those that use "Then"? Does it mean all effects on the card, or none, as you say? At the very least, you don't have to have an enemy target lock on you to use Expert Handling, although there's a strong case that "You may..." will be executed even if you don't have one to remove.

We don't actually have any general rules for these corner cases. Can I use Elusiveness when a Blinded Pilot fires at me (before the obvious "That's dumb", perhaps useful for Fel or Ibtisam)? If/when we get a Rebel ship with no shields, could the Chewbacca crew card be used for it? I don't think we actually have firm rules for answering any of this. We have one case which illustrates a single case of dependency, but no idea what the scope of that is, so really nothing to derive universal rules from.

So I will have to change that to, all parts of the card are carried out independantely, or the entire card has no effect.

I hate to keep hammering the point, but I don't think this is correct either - or at the very least, it's not a statement in the rules and not something we can derive conclusively from the rulings. The Expert Handling rulings suggests at least a single case of upstream dependency, i.e. that previous elements must complete or later elements fizzle. But we have no idea of what the actual scope of that is - is it only Expert Handling? Does it mean all downstream effects? Only those that use "Then"? Does it mean all effects on the card, or none, as you say? At the very least, you don't have to have an enemy target lock on you to use Expert Handling, although there's a strong case that "You may..." will be executed even if you don't have one to remove.

We don't actually have any general rules for these corner cases. Can I use Elusiveness when a Blinded Pilot fires at me (before the obvious "That's dumb", perhaps useful for Fel or Ibtisam)? If/when we get a Rebel ship with no shields, could the Chewbacca crew card be used for it? I don't think we actually have firm rules for answering any of this. We have one case which illustrates a single case of dependency, but no idea what the scope of that is, so really nothing to derive universal rules from.

I agree there is some dependency. But that dependency is can you initiate the 1st item, and not dependent on how it completes.. IE.. Is there a legal Barrel Roll you could perform, Can you assign the 2 Damage to the ship, Can you assign a Stress.. Not on whether the ship gets the stress (or if it's taken by Yorr) or whether both of the 2 Damage actually get put on the ship (maybe because the ship is no longer on the board to have the 2nd damage played on it, but lets not start that argument). So it's more of a pre-check, than do A then if A completes do B. It should be considered as is A legal, if so do A and B.

It makes a different if you

1. do something and pay for it by taking a stress token

or

2. you get a stress token and this triggering something. In this case the stress token is needed first.

As far as I know:

elusiveness and opportunist are not triggered by the token, as well as for jans ability. So DraconPyrothayan is right.

Soontir needs a stress token to get a focus token.

Opportunist can only be used once in a round, even if yorr takes the stress. The reason is that you can only use it during attack and you have only one attack !?!

Can Elusiveness be used every time you are attacked assuming there is a yorr next taking tokens?

The way I read it, you could theoretically use Yorr to use Opportunist twice if you're using a Gunner, but that's incredibly rare. Also this way, Yorr + Elusiveness turns into a pseudo Flight Instructor/Sensor Jammer, going once per trigger.

As Yorr still only clears stress one at a time, I think this is still balanced.

On kind of a side note to this, do ay of you have much experience playing games with blended squads? is it fun or does it produce some OP synergy?

Other than Yorr + Jan (+ Others)

I'd like to run Biggs + Carnor + Kagi, to prevent your opponent from doing anything.

I also like to run Roark Garnet alongside Howlrunner and a bunch of Ties, everything with Swarm Tactics if possible. Every ship in the fleet would shoot as a 12 and get free re-rolls

There's also Captain Jonus alongside 3 HLC B-Wings (99 points)

So, yeah, it's definitely fun. Also has some crazy-stupid stuff going on as well

There's also Captain Jonus alongside 3 HLC B-Wings (99 points)

That's 109 points, just for the record

I'm planning a story league for next year which will include a lot of options for blending ships, but I'm going to limit the crossover options to non-unique pilots both for theme (generally represent pirate or criminal factions, whatever they happen to be flying) and to avoid crazy ability combinations.

That's 109 points, just for the record

There's also Captain Jonus alongside 3 HLC B-Wings (99 points)

#facepalm. Yes, yes it is. 87 is different than 77. Herp.