In a new rouge trader game and my new character has a problem he is the last hope of his Spacemarine chapter and only has one Techpriest from his old space marine ship. Because of the inquisition and the fact that he's from the gene-seed of Mortrain of the Death Guards the Imperium will not help the chapter come back to life. so i joined the descendent of Captain Harlock but he has only a like 2 ships and i was wondering what would be the best to way to bring back the chapter back. as the only chapter home world in this sector is the storm wardens, i was wondering if their home world could be taken over and we could use the facilities their to create a space marine chapter. but what i want to know is how many ships would we have to destroy or sneak past. however if their are any other ideas to bring my beloved chapter back i would love to know.

So let me get this straight... your character is a Loyalist Death Guard (technically, a Dusk Raider) Space Marine, allied with the last known descendant of the Haarlock Dynasty in a quest to restart the chapter, and you wish to take over Sacris in the Calixis Sector to use their facilities to bring the chapter back to the Emperor.

To be honest, I think this would be a better Black Crusade campaign than a Rogue Trader campaign.

I can see three major hurdles that you'll have to deal with: Health of your battlebrothers, equipment and serfs, and the Inquisition.

First hurdle: Apothicaries. Most of the arcane lore needed to create and continue a battle brother is tied into your apothecary staff. They know the rites, how to handle your specific gene seed, and how to take care of brothers returning from a battlefield. Depending on the chapter's history, Chaplains will also be involved in this. Creating Space Marines is no simple task, so you will need to find highly trained Apothocaries (or Magos Biologist willing to train them) who don't mind going against the Lords of Terra.

Second: equipment. Both the facilities required to create Space Marines, and the facilities needed to keep them fighting are extensive. Depending on your techmarine, you might have the lore available to repair the equipment you have available, but you will need to train more and secure a line of supply from a Forge World willing to help out a proscribed chapter. This will likely involve signing binding pacts of support to help the Forge World in its hours of need, as well as finding a very senior Magos or Fabricator willing to put his political career at risk for your fighting support.

After that, you will need to establish a fortress (either on a planet or on a ship) capable of creating, training, and housing your brothers and their myriad array of equipment. This will require more help from the Forge World, and a large supply of serfs and human assistants. Even a few hundred space marines are going to take time to create and train.

Third: the Inquisition. The hardest part of creating a space marine is acquiring the gene seed. These are small organs in and of themselves, locked away in deep vaults on Mars itself, and only the most trusted of Imperial servants are allowed in. To build (or rebuild) a chapter will require gaining access to these stocks, as well as the Magos Biologis teams able to modify I to your own pattern. Else you'll have to do it the hard way: you have one extra, which can create one more marine, then two, then four, ect... With many years between each seed extraction.

You could either ask nicely (with the political costs that entails), assault the vaults on Mars, or steal a shipment of gene seed from another chapter. Those last two options will see you hunted to the ends of the Imperium (and beyond) but are possible.

...

Now, don't take that as meaning its impossible, but a space marine chapter is one of the most dangerous weapons the Imperium has, so they are very carefully controlled. You will have a lot more luck if you can convince a Forge World to help you, and if you can find another chapter willing to sponsor your cause in front of the Lords of Terra.

So let me get this straight... your character is a Loyalist Death Guard (technically, a Dusk Raider) Space Marine, allied with the last known descendant of the Haarlock Dynasty in a quest to restart the chapter, and you wish to take over Sacris in the Calixis Sector to use their facilities to bring the chapter back to the Emperor.

To be honest, I think this would be a better Black Crusade campaign than a Rogue Trader campaign.

Edit: http://redelf.naxx.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_roi.html

There's a reason that Hellish (-60) is on the example rolls table

So any ideas on what frouge world in the calxious sector would aid me. Then Spacemarines who would sponser me who hate the inqusion as much as Harlock and the gang.

Also just to say My Chapter is known as Three Orange Suns founed in the 13th founding placed in the Calixous sector to which a warp storm happened the chapter was reound by the inqustion years later claiming still to be loyal wailst gaurdsmen were attacking it claiming also to be loyal. but long story sort a deamon prince was made on the world by all the tech priest who went trator to the Lord of Decay. this Fused beast was striked down by a orbital strike which sent him back to th warp but left the monerstry detroyed. the only ones left were the 7th conpany and thier ship and the Chapter Master who looked like Mortian and bore his name in way to keep his battle brothers united to something that once stood for justice and truth. But the inqusion setnced him to Death for not believing the creed and as priomse the inqustion let the chapter go on crusade but they decided not to do this once they were out thier reach until the inquersion showed up again. so bobs your uncle this why my chracter thinks he the only servior of his chapter who mange to escape with the Chapter masters Relics but is strong enouth to were them and use them in battle. This Chapter was made in the Dark founding and therefore were taught alot of dark things about thier past due to the crupt high lord of terror which helped create them. Due to being lost in the warpstorm they became taght in the ways of the impreail turth.

So any ideas on what frouge world in the calxious sector would aid me. Then Spacemarines who would sponser me who hate the inqusion as much as Harlock and the gang.

...ect...

I'm happy to answer questions, but I always appreciate a well written question. It makes me feel like the question has some thought behind it, and that I'll be posting a response to something that other people might pay attention to. Typically, I'm looking for a couple things, including reasonable spelling and paragraph breaks.

On the first part, I'm a huge fan of Google and spellcheckers, since the little red underline lets me know that I might have written something wrong. On most modern browsers, the spellchecker is built in (Chrome, Safari, Firefox), which helps me out a lot without having to resort to copy/pasting into a document editor like Word. When I run into a word I don't know, that's when Google comes in handy, since I can typically plop a bad spelling into a google search, and it'll tell me what I'm looking for or a good place to start figuring it out. Sometimes, it'll even give me the variations on it so that I can choose which one works best:

https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/

http://www.apple.com/safari/

http://mozilla-firefox.ez-download.com

I also have a friend who regularly runs around the internet in two languages, and he's a fan of using two different browsers. He'll have Firefox set up for Spanish, and Chrome set up for English, so he can keep the spellcheckers separate.

On the paragraph breaks, I'm personally a fan of splitting it up after every 3-5 sentences. Sometimes I can run a little longer if they're short, or cut it off early if I've been writing giant sentences with a lot of words. That way, when I'm reading it, I can chunk the information easier, without having to stare at a giant wall of text. Giant walls of text are really difficult for me.

Typically, I follow those two guidelines because it makes it look like I've put as much thought into my post as I actually have. It doesn't always work (still surprised that no-one else has allies/enemies they want to add to the list http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/92918-worthy-allies-and-adversaries/ ), but I've had a lot of success with it.

On your actual chapter, that's what good roleplaying is going to have to be for. If you have allies, use them to figure out where you need to go next. If you have enemies, smash those enemies and then see who owes you a favor for removing them from existence.

Ok, my good sir I shall do my best to answer your questions.

So, the others that have posted have covered the topic of rebuilding the chapter. Now, as for defences of the home world that all depends on how strong the chapter is and if they are busy off fighting campaings and protecting their sector. That is if you want to go in all sneaky like and steeles the stuff you need. And there is always the diplomatic way.

Now, your forge wold situation; you best bet try to infiltrate one and go that route, or again, you could go for the diplomatic approch. As for chapter discusted with the inquazition , your best bet is some of the smaller sucsessor chapters, preferably one of the lessor known ones and smaller, best for purposes of snekeness, or then again go for diplomicy. Your best bet. Have any questions feel free to ask me, I will be happy to help, no stipulations.

Cheers thanks for tips and even the ones about spelling, etc. Sometimes I have a problems with that so thanks CaptainRemiVandigrath .

I do like the plan of cursing my enemy’s to reap the benefits, but my Spacemarine only wishes to kill if diplomacy fails he still believes in humanity but wishes to see it change insteed of massacres like Isstvan III.

Ok, my good sir I shall do my best to answer your questions.

So, the others that have posted have covered the topic of rebuilding the chapter. Now, as for defences of the home world that all depends on how strong the chapter is and if they are busy off fighting campaings and protecting their sector. That is if you want to go in all sneaky like and steeles the stuff you need. And there is always the diplomatic way.

Now, your forge wold situation; you best bet try to infiltrate one and go that route, or again, you could go for the diplomatic approch. As for chapter discusted with the inquazition , your best bet is some of the smaller sucsessor chapters, preferably one of the lessor known ones and smaller, best for purposes of snekeness, or then again go for diplomicy. Your best bet. Have any questions feel free to ask me, I will be happy to help, no stipulations.

The question I want to know is who is willing to make diplomacy with Harlock and the gang for this? Is anyone Caluixous sector in fear of the Inquisition? Will to make deals with him perhaps, but are not choas.

Cool!

It looks like the guy was well known for both his terror tactics and the size of his empire. Personally, I'd start with looking for the parts of the empire that are still functioning, even this many years later. There will be successor groups and powerful bosses who are either looking to continue his legacy or supplant Haarlock's power. In any of those groups, there should be some people with good connections to the Adeptus Terra, a powerful Forge World, and the myriad other organs of the Imperium.

The trick will be finding the people who are willing to work with you, instead of the people looking to use you as a good excuse to take power themselves, but those would be interesting side quests in and of themselves.

Personally, I'd take the tactic of using Haarlock's name to get the first group of core supporters around you, then use those contacts to start building up the infrastructure needed for a Space Marine chapter. That way, the friends of friends, and the Forge World, don't know that they're working for someone they might not approve of, and the middlemen are getting the power and influence that they crave so badly.

Eventually, someone might figure out who the power behind your growing movement is. Then you'll have to figure out how to deal with them!

I think having your Rogue Trader being the last surviving member of the Haarlock Dynasty might have some advantages that weren't mentioned yet. Yes, Erasmus Haarlock was probably a bit of a genocidal madman, but most importantly as far as everyone knows he was mostly a genocidal madman with regards to his own family . Depending on if you have a group who's played through the Haarlock campaign, your players (and by extension the Calixis Sector at large) may not know the scope of his plans, and even if they do probably only the most senior in the Inquisition know what they're doing. It's not unreasonable to have those high up in power just secretly watching for signs of further corruption from your Rogue Trader, and possibly offering some clandestine help here and there to curry favour, which they can later exploit to cause trouble. The rest of the sector was so heavily tied up in the Haarlock dynasty that when it fell apart, entire planets fell with it. There are probably some diehard loyalists, or impoverished risktakers out there ready to flock to the resurgent Haarlock Dynasty.

Regarding the geneseed, it's also important to remember two points. First, we as players have all sorts of meta-knowledge about how Space Marines are made, but outside of Space Marines even Rogue Traders are not always sure of the process. Ordinary people believe they are angels from the Emperor, nobility and low-level Mechanicus can probably suspect that there's gene-forging involved, but apart from Space Marine Chapters, and VERY senior personnel in the Adeptus, the existence of Geneseed is about as important to a Space Marine as a Soulstone is to an Eldar.

So putting those two ideas together, have a mission or two with various semi-important officials coming to your party with missions to help reclaim the glory of the Haarlock dynasty. The first few can be somewhat normal challenges, go to this planet, reclaim this treasure, overthrow this government, and then have one person - a member of the Inquisition under cover - bring information about a lost lab of Erasmus Haarlock somewhere off the charted grid. Going there reveals it to be a massive bio-forging complex where strange and terrible creatures exist, as well as excellent servitorization and mind-wiping facilities to ensure operational secrecy. It would be perfect for beginning the reforging of the geneseed... except when the Rogue Trader tries to take control of it, Erasmus Haarlock has left a few nasty surprises for his descendant.

It might be perfectly possible to salvage the lab and start the process of creating new Space Marines, in fact Haarlock himself may have been researching something similar. Unfortunately make the path to capturing the facility intact far harder than just blowing everything up and escaping, and see if your Space Marine can make it.

Cool!

It looks like the guy was well known for both his terror tactics and the size of his empire. Personally, I'd start with looking for the parts of the empire that are still functioning, even this many years later. There will be successor groups and powerful bosses who are either looking to continue his legacy or supplant Haarlock's power. In any of those groups, there should be some people with good connections to the Adeptus Terra, a powerful Forge World, and the myriad other organs of the Imperium.

The trick will be finding the people who are willing to work with you, instead of the people looking to use you as a good excuse to take power themselves, but those would be interesting side quests in and of themselves.

Personally, I'd take the tactic of using Haarlock's name to get the first group of core supporters around you, then use those contacts to start building up the infrastructure needed for a Space Marine chapter. That way, the friends of friends, and the Forge World, don't know that they're working for someone they might not approve of, and the middlemen are getting the power and influence that they crave so badly.

Eventually, someone might figure out who the power behind your growing movement is. Then you'll have to figure out how to deal with them!

Well this is very helpful it seems to me that i need friends for this, to make sure I get those middle men gosh I never knew that those imperial men were so corrupt. Erathia

You make some interesting points and one of our endeavors is to find stuff Harlock left behind so this might work to my advantage in fact draw ever closer to that ultimate goal.

Also the my tech friend has FB AA and medicine along with chemistry at full he's pretty knowledgeable.

Three Orange Suns will live again! For The Truth, for The Different and for The New!

also i'm Called Solun Decius in the game for the win.

Geneseed isn't even Forbidden Lore, it's outright secret lore that's only written down in a select few places. There are lots of stories of attempts to make Space Marines going wrong, including that one entire Founding no one likes to talk about anymore. Having an actual Space Marine on hand to walk them through the correct steps of implantation would already be a huge step forward.

These are (roughly) the steps that need to be followed, whereas even an extremely skilled and well-schooled Medicae would never have even imagined anything like this. This could be another good reason for the Inquisition to get involved in this campaign, as they would like the procedure to continue just up to the point of being able to create Space Marines, and then step in to claim the research for their own.

Little late in coming to this one. First and foremost; If your Marine is indeed a loyalist Astartes, Merely suggesting you plan to sack Sacris will likely have him tearing your Rogue trader into bite sized giblets and feeding him to the dark hold scavengers!

A better choice would be to find a world suitable to build a fortress monastary upon. An Ideal candidate would be one where their is already a population of preferably feral or feudal humans. The process of beginning the Monastery would be the same as founding a colony so Stars of Iniquity would probably be helpful. Once in place you could petition the Adeptus mechanicus for support with upgrading your colony to support the Monastery. Please note that you MUST have access to an Apothecary in order to even begin the process. If you do not have one perhaps the Aforementioned Storm wardens would be willing to help "Refound" a brother chapter if appropriate Geneseed stocks were available. Another step along the way would be to gain the blessing of the Adeptus Terra to reconstitute your chapter. If your chapter history has no major heretical blemishes and you have some survivors to start from this will probably not be a problem. With the number of fairly large conflicts brewing around the Calixis sector the AT would probably LOVE to have another chapter available! Once you get to this point your Rogue trader loses control of the process. With the blessing of the Adeptus Terra the Admech will start prioritizing some of the heavy equipment your chapter needs to operate. (Everything from combat knives to Battlebarges!)

Building this stock of equipment will take a significant amount of time unless something can be done about it. This is where your Rogue trader comes back in. As a friend to the newly rechristened chapter He could offer to help "Recover" relics and equipment from the original chapter. (Or other now extinct chapters). If one could recover the crippled hull of a Battlebarge or strike cruiser refitting and repairing it would likely be MUCH faster than building one (Which can literally take centuries!)

Meanwhile, back on the Colony/Monastery the selection process begins. Your first order of business would be to create your 10th company of Initiates. It is from here you will begin the staffing of the other nine companies and thus the rebuilding of the Chapter! Within a short century or two your chapter could be ready to spread it's fledgling wings and bring the Emperor's wrath to his enemies!

...

Meanwhile, back on the Colony/Monastery the selection process begins. Your first order of business would be to create your 10th company of Initiates. It is from here you will begin the staffing of the other nine companies and thus the rebuilding of the Chapter! Within a short century or two your chapter could be ready to spread it's fledgling wings and bring the Emperor's wrath to his enemies!

I wonder if this would be one advantage of having a strong ally in the Adeptus Biologis. With a large enough stock of starting gene seed (and proper knowledge of its use, implantation, and the process of indoctrinating a new Space Marine), it's possible that you could train several full companies of initiates at once.

With help from other chapters (like the Storm Wardens) willing to offer a few hardened veterans as leaders and sergeants, you could have a minimal chapter within a couple decades.

There is the note that a very large portion of initiates probably won't survive the initial wave of recruitment due to rusty process, incorrect incantations and rites, or improper blessings from the Emperor and Omnissiah... but it would still be a potent fighting force ready to begin the brutal process of learning how to wield the Emperor's wrath.

I just can't see this happening. Loyalist Death guard survivors were part of the core membership of the Deathwatch, they numbered less than a hundred. Would there be enough gene seed around to create a successor chapter?

Then to name the chapter master after a traitor primarch, why would they do such a thing, then you throw in a demon, then the inquisition come along and execute the chapter master only then say ok you can go on a penitent crusade, for the chapter to then abscond .

These guys are traitors and renegades. No loyal chapter would touch them with a barge pole, even the most inquisitorial disliking chapter would see them as anathema.

Go and have a word with the Iron Warriors, they have a nice haul of Imperial Fist gene seed they just stole, I'm sure they'd help, for a later favour in return.

Space marine player characters in rogue trader? No. Just no. There is a wide margin between being creative and being absurd. This is squarely on the absurd side

Space marine player characters in rogue trader? No. Just no. There is a wide margin between being creative and being absurd. This is squarely on the absurd side

I have refrained from commenting in the thread because I do think that the presented premise is silly and more than a little bit on the absurd side of things.

However, a Space Marine in a Rogue Trader game isn't one of those things. Space Marines accompanying Rogue Traders isn't even odd, but nearly "perfectly normal". There's even precedence for Space Marines that are Rogue Traders, as well as Space Marines working for Rogue Traders, being lended to Rogue Traders, tied by agreement to entire Dynasties, or simply accompanying the Rogue Trader for deployment.

And you'll find no shortage of threads on people playing or wanting to play Space Marines in Rogue Trader.

I would be hesitant to include one myself, as a GM - for balance reasons, especially if you pull one out of Deathwatch - but thematically, there's nothing wrong with the concept at all.

Regarding revival of the space marine chapter/legion; you might be better served by just starting the process from scratch and beseeching the warp for aid (just like the Emperor did!) If you do that, though, I recommend NOT going back on your word as did the Emperor...that went poorly for all concerned.

As for the comments regarding balance and absurdity of space marines in RT; as the poster above me detailed nicely, there is no thematic problem with space marines in RT. As for balance issues, it just depends on what professions/levels you're dealing with. I haven't read through Deathwatch, so I can't speak as to how the space marines there are statted, but looking at the classes and "races" in RT and BC, frankly, once a character reaches a certain XP level, depending on the advances they've taken, whether or not they are a space marine is a fairly minor detail. A mid-to-high level Arch-Militant or Rogue Trader, for example, with access to human-sized equivelant gear to a space marine (power armor, etc) could wipe the floor with "rank-and-file" space marines the way space marines wade through "normals".

Deathwatch marines start with 12000 xp worth of advances and suchlike. they then gain a starting 1000 xp to customise them. Stat wise they are 30% +2d10% with usually two +5% increases depending on chapter, you then get to double your strength and toughness bonus.

I believe or am led to believe Rogue trader pcs start with 5000 xp

There is a difference in experience costs for skills, talents and stat increases, Deathwatch's are much more expensive. I wonder if anyone has worked out how much a build would cost using the cheaper systems.

That implies that every game is going to start out at lvl1.

Personally, once a RT and dynasty reach level 5 or 6, they should be wielding fleets of ships, armies of soldiers, and have archeotech that most of the Imperium can hardly comprehend, all backed by a small empire of colonies and worlds for support. At that point, whether a new player has just joined the game, or a dynastic member died, or the game is simply opening there, I think a Space Marine is a fairly straight forward choice for someone.

In that regard yes I agree, A starting space marine would fit in nicely. One of the noble navigator houses has a small complement of Space Wolf marines 'on staff' an ancient obligation has allied them. I can't see why a Rogue Trader can't have the same thing.

In that regard yes I agree, A starting space marine would fit in nicely. One of the noble navigator houses has a small complement of Space Wolf marines 'on staff' an ancient obligation has allied them. I can't see why a Rogue Trader can't have the same thing.

True but this discussion should be in another thread. Also GM only let me a black crusade space marine that just didn't worship chaos.

I just can't see this happening. Loyalist Death guard survivors were part of the core membership of the Deathwatch, they numbered less than a hundred. Would there be enough gene seed around to create a successor chapter?

Then to name the chapter master after a traitor primarch, why would they do such a thing, then you throw in a demon, then the inquisition come along and execute the chapter master only then say ok you can go on a penitent crusade, for the chapter to then abscond .

These guys are traitors and renegades. No loyal chapter would touch them with a barge pole, even the most inquisitorial disliking chapter would see them as anathema.

Go and have a word with the Iron Warriors, they have a nice haul of Imperial Fist gene seed they just stole, I'm sure they'd help, for a later favour in return.

Wait they never were apart of the watch XD sorry if we misunderstood my friend. Yo there not with chaos because of a daemon prince and stuff that's like Nathaniel Garro was evil cause the death guard were. Also these guys turned their back on inquisition it's not like other people hat them or anything. They are none Religions conformist not heretics. Also there were a lot of things wrong with the dark founding. It does state that all the traitor legions had a new chapter so Death Guard mrk2 might be out there. Yeah i see your point but my character hates chaos relay bad. XD Also i see you point mind Spacemarines could see me as heretics but i depends how much of secret the information was...

...

Meanwhile, back on the Colony/Monastery the selection process begins. Your first order of business would be to create your 10th company of Initiates. It is from here you will begin the staffing of the other nine companies and thus the rebuilding of the Chapter! Within a short century or two your chapter could be ready to spread it's fledgling wings and bring the Emperor's wrath to his enemies!

I wonder if this would be one advantage of having a strong ally in the Adeptus Biologis. With a large enough stock of starting gene seed (and proper knowledge of its use, implantation, and the process of indoctrinating a new Space Marine), it's possible that you could train several full companies of initiates at once.

With help from other chapters (like the Storm Wardens) willing to offer a few hardened veterans as leaders and sergeants, you could have a minimal chapter within a couple decades.

There is the note that a very large portion of initiates probably won't survive the initial wave of recruitment due to rusty process, incorrect incantations and rites, or improper blessings from the Emperor and Omnissiah... but it would still be a potent fighting force ready to begin the brutal process of learning how to wield the Emperor's wrath

All of this is relay helpful thanks for your cool advice, 10th company sounds like a plan. Cheers to everyone else, but talks about SM in Rouge Trader should continue in a another thread.

Geneseed isn't even Forbidden Lore, it's outright secret lore that's only written down in a select few places. There are lots of stories of attempts to make Space Marines going wrong, including that one entire Founding no one likes to talk about anymore. Having an actual Space Marine on hand to walk them through the correct steps of implantation would already be a huge step forward.

These are (roughly) the steps that need to be followed, whereas even an extremely skilled and well-schooled Medicae would never have even imagined anything like this. This could be another good reason for the Inquisition to get involved in this campaign, as they would like the procedure to continue just up to the point of being able to create Space Marines, and then step in to claim the research for their own.

also here's the link to talk about SM in RT http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93962-space-marines-in-rogue-trader/

Space marine player characters in rogue trader? No. Just no. There is a wide margin between being creative and being absurd. This is squarely on the absurd side

I have refrained from commenting in the thread because I do think that the presented premise is silly and more than a little bit on the absurd side of things.

However, a Space Marine in a Rogue Trader game isn't one of those things. Space Marines accompanying Rogue Traders isn't even odd, but nearly "perfectly normal". There's even precedence for Space Marines that are Rogue Traders, as well as Space Marines working for Rogue Traders, being lended to Rogue Traders, tied by agreement to entire Dynasties, or simply accompanying the Rogue Trader for deployment.

And you'll find no shortage of threads on people playing or wanting to play Space Marines in Rogue Trader.

I would be hesitant to include one myself, as a GM - for balance reasons, especially if you pull one out of Deathwatch - but thematically, there's nothing wrong with the concept at all.

Because a space marine as party if a rogue trader crew is perfectly normal? Please. An RT carrying space marine to and from a particular task is one thing, a permanent fixture on the ship is another thing altogether.

Don't try so hard. Your gut instinct - not wanting one in campaigns you GM - was correct from the outset.