Stealth is always the most attractive skill for me, but always seems like the most complicated to get working right. Right now I'm preparing for a new campaign in which I will be rolling a Noghri Assassin. In the books, the Noghri bodyguards of Princess Leia are almost always out of sight even when their is nothing going on and I would like to run my character similarly. So I wanted to see how everyone handles Stealth mechanics in their game.

So here's a couple scenarios.

1) Let's say I just want to hide in the shadows (as described above) with no enemy near by. Now in Saga edition, you would roll a d20 and this would essentially set the Perception DC required to spot you at any point later on. However, in Edge of the Empire, Stealth is an opposed roll to Perception. So would it be prudent to not actually roll a Stealth check until someone actively looked for me (or even passively if they just happen to walk by me)? So they way I see it is that I just tell my GM that I'm actively attempting to not be noticed (with some flare of course) and then she tells me when to roll my Stealth check?

2) I've read a few threads on the lack of surprise rounds, etc.. in this game. Essentially, from what I understand, if I'm to ambush someone (AKA attack them while they have not noticed me because I'm actively hidden), all it means is that when the encounter starts, I roll Cool for Initiative (Cool, btw is NOT a class skill for assassins). It seems to me that Stealth gives me very little advantage in combat scenarios, especially when there doesn't really seem to be a good "Sneak Attack" type talent. The closest being "Quick Strike", which only matters for Initiative order.

3) As a follow up to number 2, how would you handle a hidden character in mid combat? Either, I choose not to reveal my presence until half way through the encounter to throw off the enemy or I used an action to move into the shadows. Once again, it doesn't appear that there is any benefit to this in RAW.

It's entirely possible I'm missing something in the book too, so if there are relevant rules that I'm overlooking, let me know

1.success's could help raise the difficulty or add setback to anyone looking for you. So you can do it a number of ways.

2. surprise round is you can essentially get the first free attack. after that it goes to cool vs their vigilance.

A lot of it depends on your GM (of course).

1) The game is about the narrative so if by using your assassin you are endangering some narrative, the GM may make you roll stealth a lot or they may not bother at all and say its an auto success. If you are trying to stay perma-stealthed and baddies appear, you usually have to roll a head to head skill check. It just depends on the scene.

2) I handle surprised differently than what I've read here. If I feel the PCs have done something to warrant a surprise I give it too them with no rolling. That gives them the first slots on all rounds during a fight. Sometimes I'll add first round boost or setback die given the conditions of the surprise. NPCs also get this bonus if they are surprising the party and I (the GM) want the party to be surprised. I had a fight with a sniper-like bounty hunter start this way when the characters were leaving a bar at night. One PC got hammered by the attack and the party took action and fun ensued.

Now, if you are hidden in the shadows and baddies approach your party, I may have you roll a opposed skill check and if you win you get boost die to your initiative order and your first round of combat. That's how I see stealth affecting combat.

3) Again this is up the the GM but I'd consider the fight. If it was one baddie vs the party I could see an opposed skill check being reasonable. If it was a squads of stormtroopers in the middle of the desert, I'd probably ask you where the heck you gonna hide or just tell you its impossible. If it was in a city, I'd probably give you a skill check but with setback/boost die based on the number of combatants or some variation on that concept.

Remember this isn't a straight up rule system where every action/scenario has a rule set associated with it like most d20 systems have. It allows GMs to flex dice to match the scene and thus add some pretty interesting stuff. I'd ask all of these questions to your personal GM because you are only going to get a lot of different answers here.

A lot of it depends on your GM (of course).

Remember this isn't a straight up rule system where every action/scenario has a rule set associated with it like most d20 systems have. It allows GMs to flex dice to match the scene and thus add some pretty interesting stuff. I'd ask all of these questions to your personal GM because you are only going to get a lot of different answers here.

Actually the reason for my post is I'm trying to work this out with my GM. I'm just trying to see what other people do so she knows the options and isn't take by surprise when I start actually taking these actions in the game.

There are numerous ways to do this.

For less important stealth checks a simple narration of disappearing might be enough, only requiring checks if it matters or circumstances change.

I had an assassin hide behind the curtains in an apartment last session. She just stood there. The check was opposed by the best NPC opponent, she naturally succeeded. She stayed behind there for a few rounds, then shot a lot of minions in the back, then remained hidden as no one could have seen her, they were either down or in another room. I didn't really give her boost dice for this though, perhaps I should've...?

As for sneak attacking I'd normally award a boost die for success, and perhaps additional once for a lot of additional successes, advantages and triumphs. But not no more than two or three in total for a real epic roll... Of course against a minion one such super roll, with a triumph, might be all that's needed to off a minion guard or two.

Now, when considering initiative, cool seems to work well, the above mentioned assassin did a super sniper shot session before last. She didn't win initiative, but distance and context meant that the nemesis villain would only have time to notice her using his force powers, which he did. Then she fired. Then he fell unconscious, his guards taking him into cover in a cave, which had been rigged with explosives. He's dead now. Now, I should probably have given her a boost die for the cool check if I had required her to make a stealth check against the villain's perception... I didn't. All the better for the story. He senses her, turns around looks straight at her and points. They have "eye contact" through her electrobinoculars, he starts to give orders, she fires. He sees the blaster bolts that kills him. Epic.

There is a benefit to being stealthy, and per RAW game totally allows a Noghri-style character to work and reap the benfits from being a ghost, but the mechanics are different from D20 (duh), so while the end result will be roughly the same (probably better actually) how you actually run the game is a smidge different.

To preface remember:

D20 assumes you have a dozen miniatures on a gridded map. So the goblin hiding in the shadows, totally unseen by the players, is still represented by a little metal goblin on a map. So to compensate for Steve being able to actually see the "totally hidden" goblin, they have to pile on modifiers and rules to keep Legolas from attacking him with any kind of effectiveness.

EotE assumes there is no map, or minis, or anything (you can use them sure, but they aren't required). So when the GM describes the same scene to Steve, he just says "The room is too dark to see clearly... so there could be nothing, or an ugnaught with a knife, or a dozen rancors." and that's all Steve, and Leg Olas have to work with until Steve starts rolling dice.

Stealth is always the most attractive skill for me, but always seems like the most complicated to get working right. Right now I'm preparing for a new campaign in which I will be rolling a Noghri Assassin. In the books, the Noghri bodyguards of Princess Leia are almost always out of sight even when their is nothing going on and I would like to run my character similarly. So I wanted to see how everyone handles Stealth mechanics in their game.

So here's a couple scenarios.

1) Let's say I just want to hide in the shadows (as described above) with no enemy near by. Now in Saga edition, you would roll a d20 and this would essentially set the Perception DC required to spot you at any point later on. However, in Edge of the Empire, Stealth is an opposed roll to Perception. So would it be prudent to not actually roll a Stealth check until someone actively looked for me (or even passively if they just happen to walk by me)? So they way I see it is that I just tell my GM that I'm actively attempting to not be noticed (with some flare of course) and then she tells me when to roll my Stealth check?

The way you can do this (and you'll see how it makes sense when I answer your next question) is if you are attempting to hide now to execute an ambush later you would roll Stealth with a difficulty based on the terrain you are trying to hide in. So a dense jungle or cluttered warehouse is easy, a simple forest or organized warehouse avg, grassy field hard, empty warehouse is formidable.

Successes means you hid, with advantages and triumphs adding to other elements on your hiding (like hiding in something that counts as cover as opposed to just plain hiding)

2) I've read a few threads on the lack of surprise rounds, etc.. in this game. Essentially, from what I understand, if I'm to ambush someone (AKA attack them while they have not noticed me because I'm actively hidden), all it means is that when the encounter starts, I roll Cool for Initiative (Cool, btw is NOT a class skill for assassins). It seems to me that Stealth gives me very little advantage in combat scenarios, especially when there doesn't really seem to be a good "Sneak Attack" type talent. The closest being "Quick Strike", which only matters for Initiative order.

D20's surprise round is something that works in D20 because it factors in how D20 works overall. Remember in D20 it's really hard to TPK in a single round, in EotE, it's totally doable. So leaving even advanced players with their lekku hanging in the breeze for a single turn can be catastrophic in EotE...

So the solution to surprises is to.... not metagame. That's it. Unexpected I know, but seriously that's all there is to it.

Example:

My Players are hidden along a jungle path (see answer 1) and along comes the four NPCs the players want to ambush. The NPCs don't automatically get a perception check to detect the players, because we already established that the players are hidden (maybe a despair or pile of threat might change this, but that's for another topic as there's TONS of other things that could go wrong as well).

Instead, they roll Vig, and the Players roll Cool. Now to address your issue, lets say one of the NPCs outscores the players. So he goes first. But what can that NPC actually do? By going first all that means is that his spider-sense is tingling. He doesn't see anyone there, doesn't hear anything, he just knows the location is leaving him feeling vulnerable.

So what are his options?

Actions:

He can make a perception check and see if he sees anyone....(Opposed Perc to Stealth)

Shoot randomly into the jungle (so Formidable to start, plus modifiers... not a likely hit)

Make some other kind of skill check to deduce something about this possible ambush

Maneuvers:

go prone...Move into cover...

pull out his weapons...

Pull out his comlink to let everyone else know he's worried...

other similar actions...

But that' s kinda it....

3) As a follow up to number 2, how would you handle a hidden character in mid combat? Either, I choose not to reveal my presence until half way through the encounter to throw off the enemy or I used an action to move into the shadows. Once again, it doesn't appear that there is any benefit to this in RAW.

For someone remaining hidden, I'd play is straight.

So we're still in that jungle ambush, and the players have starting shooting, and say one player either decides to just sit tight and do nothing, perform a maneuver (with a successful accompanying stealth check action) or takes an action and scores a triumph and decides to apply that to not revealing his location. Unless one of the NPCs succeed in a Perception vs. Stealth action to find players hidden in the jungle, the NPC is still essentially limited the exact same way as above in Question 2's answer.

For moving into the shadows... same thing essentially. Player rolls Stealth vs. Perception (with modifiers for being in combat, terrain, ect) and succeeds. Now the NPCs need to Perception vs. Stealth before they can directly target him again, and you're essentially back to a Question 3 part 1 situation again, with the player being near-impossible to hit, but also being rather limited on his own choices if he wishes to remain hidden.

So there is benefit in RAW, but because of how the system works it applied the bonuses and limitations to the actual options a character has, and not just as a pile of modifiers to an attack roll.

Successes means you hid, with advantages and triumphs adding to other elements on your hiding (like hiding in something that counts as cover as opposed to just plain hiding)

Would you then roll a completely separate Stealth check in the event that someone looks for you?

Example:

My Players are hidden along a jungle path (see answer 1) and along comes the four NPCs the players want to ambush. The NPCs don't automatically get a perception check to detect the players, because we already established that the players are hidden (maybe a despair or pile of threat might change this, but that's for another topic as there's TONS of other things that could go wrong as well).

Instead, they roll Vig, and the Players roll Cool. Now to address your issue, lets say one of the NPCs outscores the players. So he goes first. But what can that NPC actually do? By going first all that means is that his spider-sense is tingling. He doesn't see anyone there, doesn't hear anything, he just knows the location is leaving him feeling vulnerable.

I like the explanation, but all it really means is that in the event that the NPC simply fails to find me (if they are above me in the Initiative order), I simply get to make the first "combat" action. Additionally, there is a high probability I will be the only one hiding in a lot of cases, which means the NPCs can take combat actions against other PCs. It seems, in that scenario, the incentive to be hidden is minimal (at least as far as combat is concerned).

I appreciate your write up and will definitely have my GM read it over.

I've found that the hardest part about Stealth is when several characters are all sneaking. How do you guys handle that? The rulebook says something like that the one who goes first can "pass on" successes to the next character - how do you make that work? Should everyone roll, or just the best character? Should additional sneaking characters add Setback dice to the roll, and should additional watching characters add Boost dice to theirs? I'm curious how others deal with this.

Would you then roll a completely separate Stealth check in the event that someone looks for you?

No. The initial check determines if you are hidden and what other advantages you may be able to get from your hiding spot.

Assuming you haven't done anything to break that initial hide, any attempts to find you would be the searching character making a Perception Check (action) with the difficulty being the analog of your Stealth. So if you've got 2 yellow and a green in Stealth, they'd have to roll perception vs. a base difficulty of two red and purple. You don't have to perform an action to simply remain hidden.

The only time you'd need to take additional stealth checks is to do something like stay hidden while making another maneuver like switching weapons, or changing positions, or whatever.

I like the explanation, but all it really means is that in the event that the NPC simply fails to find me (if they are above me in the Initiative order), I simply get to make the first "combat" action. Additionally, there is a high probability I will be the only one hiding in a lot of cases, which means the NPCs can take combat actions against other PCs. It seems, in that scenario, the incentive to be hidden is minimal (at least as far as combat is concerned).

It really depends on how you look at it, the exact scenario, what your character looks like, what weapons he's using, and how your GM runs it. The core advantage you get is they can't shoot you with any real chance of success, and they have to blow actions on perception checks to find you (actions that they aren't spending shooting). How this effects the enemy's tactics is probably the real question, and one that your GM REALLY needs to think about. I suspect a hidden (with stalker) Player Assassin using a slugthrower rifle (no tracers) with sniper shot (long range) and leveraging talents like lethal blows, quick strike, and precise aim to insta-kill or seriously wound the enemy "leader" on turn one will have a dramatic effect on the minions, especially if the assassin also has enough advantage or triumph to stay hidden. Maybe it's just me, but Jabba's goons didn't seem like a "fight to the death" kind of crew....

But no, you don't get anything obvious and mechanical like automatic damage or crit bonuses for being "hidden" like you can in D20.

I've found that the hardest part about Stealth is when several characters are all sneaking. How do you guys handle that? The rulebook says something like that the one who goes first can "pass on" successes to the next character - how do you make that work? Should everyone roll, or just the best character? Should additional sneaking characters add Setback dice to the roll, and should additional watching characters add Boost dice to theirs? I'm curious how others deal with this.

The way I read it everyone rolls. If Sneaky player A rolls and get s 5 successes the 4 "extra" successes can go into a pool, so when not as sneaky player B rolls and ends up with a single failure, he can pull two successes from the pool to balance out to a single success...and... well... succeed.

Not sure if that's what they meant, but that's what I understand...

It really depends on how you look at it, the exact scenario, what your character looks like, what weapons he's using, and how your GM runs it. The core advantage you get is they can't shoot you with any real chance of success, and they have to blow actions on perception checks to find you (actions that they aren't spending shooting). How this effects the enemy's tactics is probably the real question, and one that your GM REALLY needs to think about. I suspect a hidden (with stalker) Player Assassin using a slugthrower rifle (no tracers) with sniper shot (long range) and leveraging talents like lethal blows, quick strike, and precise aim to insta-kill or seriously wound the enemy "leader" on turn one will have a dramatic effect on the minions, especially if the assassin also has enough advantage or triumph to stay hidden. Maybe it's just me, but Jabba's goons didn't seem like a "fight to the death" kind of crew....

But no, you don't get anything obvious and mechanical like automatic damage or crit bonuses for being "hidden" like you can in D20.

I'll be a melee type character. I suppose I'm just wishing for a "Sneak Attack" like talent. Everything else sounds pretty good though.

Would you guys allow the talent 'Quick Strike' to work in the middle of combat if the user was concealed before the attack? By RaW it doesn't, but it seems appropriate to me.

For (1) I would probably let it be fluff until you tried to gain an advantage from it (i.e. not being seen). Then you'd roll Stealth once. All the enemies would roll Perception. I'd then compare their checks to yours. Seems like the easiest way to do it.

(2/3) Assuming nobody saw you I'd say that's the perfect opportunity for Boost dice for you/Setback dice for opponents/maybe even the enemies taking Fear checks.