No matter what I run at it I can't seem to counter this list and was wondering what ideas people have.

B-wing - blue squad - Adv. Sensors

B-wing - blue squad - Adv. Sensors

Biggs - r2d2

HWK - ion turret

He does a good job keeping Biggs behind the b wings so its nearly impossible to get range one shots without bumping

I have tried a lot of different combos but can't seem to beat it.

I get frustrated because the Adv. Sensors mean the B-wings always have actions which means they pack a big punch and also makes them the very hard to outmaneuver.

Swarms seem to lack the punch to kill Biggs fast, and they get outmaneuvered in close by the b wings, as soon as I bump I get blown up. and if I bring beefier ships with more attack dice it's usually only three ships and he can exceed my attack dice power.

Have you thought about Trellix with HLC. That way it doesn't matter if Biggs is at range 3 you will still get all your dice. So he should go down faster.

plus he wont get any extra defense die if you are using HLC because it's a secondary weapon.

also tie bombers or tie advanced with homing missiles should beat him up pretty good as well.

get rid of biggs and the rest should be fairly easy. focus fire the b-wings if possible

plus he wont get any extra defense die if you are using HLC because it's a secondary weapon

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Yep that as well.. That was what I was hinting at.

also tie bombers or tie advanced with homing missiles should beat him up pretty good as well.

I was wondering about Assault missiles, if they are within range for Biggs ability to work they are also in range for the splash damage.

but you dont get the reroll using the target lock with assault missiles. homing missiles are great 1st/one pass weapons because all you really need to do is TL and fire and then you can reroll. sure focus and TL is better, but you might not have that kind of time or opportunity all the time.

Um,That bottom list has tonnes of issues. For one thing Jonus doesn't get the effects of his own ability, and I feel his ability on Trellix is a bit redundant. I also feel that Gunner and Stealth Device is a bit over the top, the Stealth Device being not brilliant on an Agility 2 model, as it drops off too fast, and with Trassis' base Reroll I wouldn't bother with Gunner. Recon Specialist I feel works far better, 2 focus a turn brilliant. Also what is the point of Veteran Instincts when you know all the enemy ships are under your PS to begin with.

Once Biggs goes down, focused fire will take out the B-Wings pretty easily. How about 5 Bombers, each with a Concussion Missile?

Krassis Trellix + Heavy Laser Cannon + Recon Specialist (46)

Has 3 more hull. Jonus' rerolls can be used by both Trellix and your Bomber. All your ships are 4+ PS so you will be moving last shooting first, and Jonus' Squad Leader means you can get Target Lock and Focus on your Gamma Squadron Pilot for your Alpha strike. and the Recon Specialist means Trellix gets some protection while still getting to use a focus on her firing each turn, and if you need a bit more survivability you have 2 foci for defense.

This is my rebuild of that list

Captain Jonus + Squad Leader (24)

Gamma Squadron Pilot + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Homing Missiles (29)

Krassis Trellix + Heavy Laser Cannon + Recon Specialist (46)

The particular types of Missiles/Torps you equipped on Gamma make Jonus useless for him.

Homing Missiles already get the benefit of the Target Lock for rerolls, and you cannot reroll the same die more than once, so Jonus will never even come into play. Meanwhile, Advanced Proton Torps roll 5 hits 98% of the time (assuming you have a Focus Token to spend), so you would only get to use Jonus's ability 2 times out of 100.

EDIT: Please everyone refrain from making "Never tell me the odds" jokes.

Lol you are right, tbh I would have went with Assault missiles and APTs. It had got messed up in my mind with what RR said. I originally said Assault was the way to go, they either get hit by splash from Biggs or have to separate out so you can target them.

Lol you are right, tbh I would have went with Assault missiles and APTs. It had got messed up in my mind with what RR said. I originally said Assault was the way to go, they either get hit by splash from Buffalo or have to separate out so you can target them.

You are totally right that Assault Missiles would be great here. Jonus would improve the chances of connecting and Biggs would spread damage around to everyone he was supposedly protecting.

The only wrinkle could be that because Biggs has a higher pilot skill than Gamma, it may be difficult to acquire that Target Lock for the Assault Missiles in the first volley of shots. By the second volley you would want to have closed in to Range 1 to get the APT off before the Bomber goes down, so it's pretty important to get those Assault Missiles in that first volley.

Lol you are right, tbh I would have went with Assault missiles and APTs. It had got messed up in my mind with what RR said. I originally said Assault was the way to go, they either get hit by splash from Buffalo or have to separate out so you can target them.

You are totally right that Assault Missiles would be great here. Jonus would improve the chances of connecting and Biggs would spread damage around to everyone he was supposedly protecting.

The only wrinkle could be that because Biggs has a higher pilot skill than Gamma, it may be difficult to acquire that Target Lock for the Assault Missiles in the first volley of shots. By the second volley you would want to have closed in to Range 1 to get the APT off before the Bomber goes down, so it's pretty important to get those Assault Missiles in that first volley.

Bigs is a great ship to shoot Assault Missiles at. If you hit him (an you probably will) you do a damage to both his B-wing frriends.

Try Jonus

with a couple of TIE Bombers both with Assault Missiles and Cluster Missiles. Two Assault Missiles buffed by Jonus might even kill him the round you fire, not to mention putting two free hits on all his other ships.

Once Biggs is dead, those Cluster Missiles (especially with Jonus) will be great against those B-wings.

It will be harder to use, but some bombs are also really good against squadrons that keep a tight formation.

Um,That bottom list has tonnes of issues. For one thing Jonus doesn't get the effects of his own ability, and I feel his ability on Trellix is a bit redundant. And again I feel that Gunner and Stealth Device is a bit over the top, the Stealth Device being not brilliant on an Agility 2 model, as it drops off too fast, and with a Reroll base I wouldn't bother with Gunner. Recon Specialist I feel works far better, 2 focus a turn brilliant, and what is the point of Veteran Instincts when you know all the enemy ships are under your PS to begin with.

actually it doesn't not against what he wants to use it.

for tourney play where you might face swarms it is handicapped, but that could be fixed easily.

i have a few hundred games under my built playing this game(not an exaggeration either). how about you?

built this list to counter some of the 3-4 ship rebel builds that were utilizing token swaps.

gunner was insurance that if the ships manged to evade damage using the tokens that i'd have a follow up.

anyways...

i put it up there as a base for the guy who was the OP to work from.

if you are opposed to gunner then you could always drop him and add those assault missiles to krassis you are so fond of; would give jonus another weapon option to affect on the first pass. keep in mind a smart player is going to tag jonus and try to kill him first so you might not have him for too many turns.

and if you don't like VI and SD then you can drop those and add a shield or engine upgrade to something. though if it were me and i knew the rebs weren't taking any secondary weapons i'd keep the SD on my firespray because at range 3 i get 4 evade die and 3 anywhere else. it might not last long but sure could make the difference.

The question was how do I beat this list, not give me an all comers list that is quite good. A lot of the choices are sub-optimal against this list.

Assault Missiles, against the list he put up, are great because you know the enemy wants to clump up to use Biggs. So either you get 3 extra splash damage OR they split up, it's win win.

Gunner is a good card, but on a ship that is already rolling 4 dice, probably getting 3 re-rolls and probably has a focus, it's 5pts which probably won't give you 5pts return.

Stealth Device is good, but it's likely to fall off early on a ship with 2 Agility. the Firespray has a crew slot so Recon Specialist is probably better as it will give you a defensive advantage all the way through the match by giving you that extra focus in defense.

Veteran Instincts on a ship with PS6 is pointless if you know your opponents ship has no ship higher than 5

keep in mind a smart player is going to tag jonus and try to kill him first so you might not have him for too many turns.

OFC they will you have loaded up an expensive buffer with missiles, it's all your eggs in one basket. At least in my version the Gamma has the missiles so each ship is equally valuable.

As I said it's sub-optimal against the list that we are trying to beat. The other list is fine, 3 fast hard hitting ships and a long range sniper, and it doesn't load up too heavily on upgrades that won't make their points back.

how about showing the OP something he could use/modify and let him make smart choices and adapt it to his own style.

just give him the answers and he wont LEARN anything.

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

old proverb, but true

one of the things i dislike about these forums is that often people come with the same kind of question as the OP and while they are given an answer rarely are they given actual HELP.

How about we actually answer the question he asked. Give him the best list we can, and explain why it works. That way he can see how we put together the list, why we made certain decisions and then use them to help him build in the future.

I thought this was a thread to discuss ways to defeat a certain list, where we would be able to discuss the best decisions to make. I personally have no issue with people taking apart a list I have designed and taking constructive advice, infact I have already made changes to my version due to critique. You obviously can't.

actually i don't have any problems with people looking at or dissecting my lists constructively.

you didn't approach it that way though, not without attacking it first, but it's fine, because i really don't care.

actually i don't have any problems with people looking at or dissecting my lists constructively.

you didn't approach it that way though, not without attacking it first, but it's fine, because i really don't care.

That was only because I had to go and pick open up a crew creator to try and rework it. I stated every issue I had with it, why I had it, and then built a list that I thought kept to the same theme but dealt with some of the issues (and that post was put up long before you posted your reply).. That is the very definition of constructive criticism. You then got aggressive and defensive.

The best option he has still is a swarm. The HWKs ion turret is kinda useless against swarms (1 damage maximum per turn, good luck with that), and i really have no idea why a swarm list should lack the firepower to kill Biggs. It has plenty of it with rerolls. The swarm is difficult to kill and also Biggs with R2D2 is kinda useless because this strongly limits where he and his allies can go if he wants to use R2. Better take a stealth device, R2F2 or perhaps even a shield upgrade for Biggs!

So just go with a cheesy swarm like you see them at tournaments, as it is the best list around. You just need to fly it correctly of course.

Howl plus stealth

Backstabber or Dark Curse

3 Obsidian Squadron

2 Academy pilot

That being said, his list is pretty solid, but would be better with one more B-Wing instead of the HWK. It is a strong list but it's beatable with a swarm, no problem!

An Alpha Strike list is usually the easiest way to beat a Biggs list.

You can acomplish that with Bombers, Tie Advanced, and Firesprays on the Empire side

Almost all the rebel planes can do missles of some sort, but obviously homing missle>torpedo in this instance, which you need A-Wings or YT-1300 for....... I think I just puked a little in my mouth mentioning A-Wings.

If you're trying to build an all-comers list, then Tie Swarm FTW!!