Flames of Fame states:

R Commit. lose 3 vitality: After you resolve the effect of a card, discard if from the card pool

What is defined as the "effect of a card". For instance, are multiples the effect of an attack card, if a card sets up an effect that is persistent (static redux while in card pool, end of turn effect), has the cards effects finished, so on and so forth.

Protoaddict said:

Multiples are seperate attacks that exist independently of the card. The card with a static effect in the card pool, would depend on the effect and how it's worded.

so if it works like that if my opponent plays a multiple attack as their second form and im chun-li do i respond immediatly after the first attack?

No, because multiple copies are not Forms, they're just more attacks.

yeah thats what i mean sorry. i mean lets say someone Olcadans as their first form, then as their second they feline spike fully multipled. do i respond to the first feline spike or after all 3 are done

I'd say after the first.

Form: An attack or other action played during the combat phase.

I interpret this as foundations & assets played to the card pool are not forms, but all attacks whether attacking or blocking & action cards are considered forms? So for a First F: action I could play it after playing several foundations?

No, playing a foundation or asset into your card pool during your combat phase is a form.

Stamp for Nyobari. Foundations and Assets are played as Forms to your card pool.

Tagrineth said:

I hate to bring up old stuff, but I was looking for a Chun-Li ruling and this caught my eye.

It's my understanding that this is directly contradictory to a previous ruling on Pyrokinetics - specifically, that multiple copies of the attack played after Pyrokinetics will resolve, because they are all counted as the same form.

Slightly off subject, but I can't find what I'm looking for - in a clarification of the Reversal response in another thread, it was stated that "once the Reversal is played, the blocked attack is finished resolving and the Reversal begins to resolve".

However, it was ruled that Chun-Li could block an attack, Reversal, and then use her response. These are contradictory.

Not trying to be an ass or start anything; just making sure I understand it correctly myself.

Link said:

wait wait wait

This makes me thing of Alba/keep your cool. I thought Forming with olcadans wasn't considered a form for things like # of forms played, next form, etc.

Is it solely because chunners says "After your opponents 2nd form resolves" and not "after your opponent resolves the 2nd form they have played"?

Does olcadans count as a form but not as "playing" a form?

and don't tell me this will be covered in the next update or if you do, give me a ruling as well

Gratzi

Smazzurco said:

If it's been ruled that you can play Olcadan's after being hit with Keep Your Cool, that seems like a contradiction to me.

In the case of Alba, it was "your opponent must play a non-attack as their next form or pass", which implies playing a card from the hand. Form'ing with Olcadan's isn't playing a non-attack.

MegaGeese said:

So olcadans is an attack?

Where does it specify (or imply) "from your hand"?

Quoting Waffle - " Playing a Form ability on a card in your staging area is the same kind of Form that playing a foundation or attack into your card pool is"

I understand the reasoning, and i am not "argueing" or saying it shoudl work any different than ruled. But i think there should be functional errata/clarification as opposed to saying on this particular piece of cardboard the definition of form is different than on other pieces of cardboard.

thanks

Alba, at the very least, was ruled that their next card had to be played from hand.

When all else fails, refer to the AGR
8.2.3 If there is a pending Form that is required to be played by a player, they may not choose to activate a Form until that requirement is fulfilled.

Please note that the rules differentiate between activating a form and playing a form.

For what it's worth... everyone needs to go and read section 8 of the AGR. Hit the reset button on this conversation, and start over, after actually referring to the current rules.

MegaGeese said:

Antigoth said:

I have never heard mention of "activating a form before". people always call it "playing a form".

Now it all makes sense.

Thanks

MegaGeese said:

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking.

When was the ruling on Pryokinetics issued?

Ages upon ages ago, back at the last forum.

My question is basically "so we have two different rulings so far on whether or not Chun-Li can Reversal and use her R on the same card".

MegaGeese said:

i would definately say chun li can reversal as well as play her R.

I am just not sure in which order.

Reversal is a response to an opponents attack that you blocked resolving.

Chun Li is a response to your opponents 2nd form this turn resolving.

to me, as long as you block your opponents 2nd form, which is an attack obviously, you can react with both a reversal as well as chun's R.

Could a mod clarify?

1) Flush the Pyrokinetics ruling.

This would be one of those instances where the AGR superceeds and removes some previously ruled instances.

2) Chunners would play the reversal first, as the reversal step is part of the attack sequence that is part of resolving playing an attack as a form. Once you've gone through the reversal step, and chosen whether or not to play a reversal, then the form is considered resolved.

So you would

1) play reversal during reversal step,

2) activate Chun-Li's ability to play a form in response to attack resolving

3) start resolving reversal

4) after reversal is resolved, start resolving form played with Chun-Li's ability

Did I get that right?

And as far as activating a form vs. playing a form...

If I understand it correctly,

A) "playing a form ability" = "activating a form"

B) "playing a form" = "playing a card as a form"

C) "playing a form ability" != "playing a form" (<---- this part seems designed to cause confusion)

D) "activating a form ability" != "playing a form"

Did I get this right?

Also, while Alba seems somewhat ambiguous on first read, Keep Your Cool does not. It clearly says that a if it can't discard a non-attack from your card pool, you must play a non-attack card .

Almost - the Window for Chunner's ability is open after the Reversal resolves, before you move onto the next multiple.

So reverse step 2 & 3.

And A through D, in my Tylenol 3 Riddled haze seems to be about right.